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cthuhulu

Apprently OWSF is still a thing

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Is it me or should the Smalland be visible at the 9:30 remaining mark. The Somers is in smoke, I am spotted and his radar is not on. Even my team mate noticed so it was not just a glitch on my computer. At least we won this ranked match.

20210227_134934_PJSB018-Yamato-1944_35_NE_north_winter.wowsreplay

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The reason he wasn't detected was that you weren't actually in his firing range. If you are moving away from a target that is chasing you, it's possible to still shoot at a target outside of your firing range, since the moving target will sail into your shells. This is a very narrow window though, and the slower the target, the smaller the window. 

Smaland has a base firing range of 11.45km, and the Smaland in match dropped off detection at about that same distance away. Notice that once he went unspotted, he started missing all his shots in front of you. He was shooting at the very edge of his firing range, and by the time his shells had landed, you would have sailed into their path. 

Its kind of like shooting torpedos at a ship outside of your torp range. If the ship doesn't move, the torps won't reach. But if the target is sailing towards you, he will sail into the range of the torps. Same concept in this situation, but just with guns. 

Let me know if that doesn't make sense.

Sorry for crap quality, screen recorder wasn't cooperating, so had to record on phone.
For those of you with worse eyes, the Smaland went undetected at ~11.5 km away, which makes sense given Smalands base firing range of 11.45 km.

Edited by SirPent13
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Man I love doing this to people and seeing them get upset.  IF you are pushing towards a boat that is kiting, they can lock onto your ship at about 0.1-0.2km outside of their firing range, and hence they can fire at you while outside of their gun range.  

If you have sufficiently floaty shells you can even do it without locking on to the target at all, say, a BB at 13km and you're in fletcher with 12km range, you can fire at the 12km line ahead of the BB and land shells on it without even using the ingame lockon at all!

The more you know :)

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1 minute ago, ToxicSymphony said:

Man I love doing this to people and seeing them get upset.  IF you are pushing towards a boat that is kiting, they can lock onto your ship at about 0.1-0.2km outside of their firing range, and hence they can fire at you while outside of their gun range.  

If you have sufficiently floaty shells you can even do it without locking on to the target at all, say, a BB at 13km and you're in fletcher with 12km range, you can fire at the 12km line ahead of the BB and land shells on it without even using the ingame lockon at all!

The more you know :)

This. Had heard of this, but not really done it before except with torps. Gave it a try last night in a (unfortunately losing,) Co-op game, and was all ‘cool...’

Definitely going to have to give it a try again.

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27 minutes ago, ToxicSymphony said:

Man I love doing this to people and seeing them get upset.  IF you are pushing towards a boat that is kiting, they can lock onto your ship at about 0.1-0.2km outside of their firing range, and hence they can fire at you while outside of their gun range.  

If you have sufficiently floaty shells you can even do it without locking on to the target at all, say, a BB at 13km and you're in fletcher with 12km range, you can fire at the 12km line ahead of the BB and land shells on it without even using the ingame lockon at all!

The more you know :)

You can't lock on outside of your firing range, so you're not benefitting from the improved dispersion.

Doesn't stop you from firing though.

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I am 70% sure if you can lock onto the ship, you're always visible when firing. I seem to recall cases where if you're kiting you can do it without being seen, but I would say that might be super edge-case and not the norm.

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Thanks everyone. Didn’t think about that. Always learning something new with this game.

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20 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

You can't lock on outside of your firing range, so you're not benefitting from the improved dispersion.

Doesn't stop you from firing though.

The game has always given a .1-.2km window outside of your max range which allows you to preemptively lock on.

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54 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

I am 70% sure if you can lock onto the ship, you're always visible when firing. I seem to recall cases where if you're kiting you can do it without being seen, but I would say that might be super edge-case and not the norm.

Pretty sure you are correct. IF you get a lock-on in open water, you will be seen by the target when you fire. Assuming identical ships and speeds with you kiting away at max range, you can land shots on him but his will always fall short (you are out-of-range by the time his shells arrive). If you are  shooting at an approaching out-of-range ship, you can always shoot unseen (by the target anyway) with your somewhat scattered salvo landing on him if your aim/lead is good. That's the only OWSF remaining in the game.

 

I haven't noticed lloyds 0.1-.2 extension on range. Seems if my guns shoot to 11.4, I never get a lock-on at 11.5. Have to take a closer look.

Correction: Just watched very closely with my Black with a 12.8km range. Enemy CV actually locked on at 13.0k. To be fair, the ship model is big enough that the front end of the ship probably was at 12.8k:Smile_trollface:

Edited by Sabot_100

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1 hour ago, SgtBeltfed said:

You can't lock on outside of your firing range, so you're not benefitting from the improved dispersion.

Doesn't stop you from firing though.

What about locking onto another ship that is within range? I have heard (but not bothered to test) that locking onto any target improves dispersion, regardless of what you actually fire at.

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2 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

What about locking onto another ship that is within range? I have heard (but not bothered to test) that locking onto any target improves dispersion, regardless of what you actually fire at.

That is correct. That's why if you are blind firing into smoke, you want to try to lock on to someone near said smoke screen, since you'll get the benefit of improved dispersion.

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Just now, Skpstr said:

What about locking onto another ship that is within range? I have heard (but not bothered to test) that locking onto any target improves dispersion, regardless of what you actually fire at.

That works just fine, though the ship you locked onto would spot you when fire.

 

51 minutes ago, lloyd1701 said:

The game has always given a .1-.2km window outside of your max range which allows you to preemptively lock on.

I've never seen that happen. My lock on always seems to work at the exact time I hit max range.

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1 minute ago, Skpstr said:

What about locking onto another ship that is within range? I have heard (but not bothered to test) that locking onto any target improves dispersion, regardless of what you actually fire at.

 It may tighten your dispersion but I think it skews your salvo  by auto tracking that locked target so unless the locked target is very close and moving at about the same course and speed as your intended target, you may find you shots missing badly. Nice, tight shell splashes though.

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5 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

I've never seen that happen. My lock on always seems to work at the exact time I hit max range.

I thought so too but just checked in game and I did get a lock on at 0.2K outside my gun range. Have to check it again if it happens when a ship isn't heading right at me.

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7 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

That works just fine, though the ship you locked onto would spot you when fire.

Assuming it wasn't behind an island, spotted by a teammate instead of you.

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much like how DDs with short range torps can still get them off and never be spotted works, same goes for guns, if your target keeps on the path they are, you can fire just outside of your gun range and by the time the shells get there, the enemy would be within the range if you had stayed in that spot, it may take a bit of skill to get it down, but its easily more useful for cruisers and DDs to use the tactic, as their gun ranges dont span halfway across the map like most BBs do

Edited by tcbaker777

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1 hour ago, Skpstr said:

Assuming it wasn't behind an island, spotted by a teammate instead of you.

Island or smoke will keep you undetected but even if a friendly is spotting you will be detected when you fire w/out solid cover as your gun bloom goes out that far...unless you're outside the targets ability to spot range.

In OP's scenario of the firing ship actually being able to spot the target by itself you will always be spotted when you fire if you're locked on...even if only for a brief moment while just passing outside the firing bloom range of your guns while kiting away.

I do this in my Atlanta against incoming BBs (& others...but mostly BBs) all the time...easier to predict where to aim w/out the lock against a slow BB...but have successfully done it against DDs locked in a knife fight w/my team's DD not being aware enough of my shells incoming due to being engaged already.

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10 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Island or smoke will keep you undetected but even if a friendly is spotting you will be detected when you fire w/out solid cover as your gun bloom goes out that far...unless you're outside the targets ability to spot range.

In OP's scenario of the firing ship actually being able to spot the target by itself you will always be spotted when you fire if you're locked on...even if only for a brief moment while just passing outside the firing bloom range of your guns while kiting away.

I do this in my Atlanta against incoming BBs (& others...but mostly BBs) all the time...easier to predict where to aim w/out the lock against a slow BB...but have successfully done it against DDs locked in a knife fight w/my team's DD not being aware enough of my shells incoming due to being engaged already.

My scenario was being locked on to a nearby enemy behind an island, but shooting at a ship just beyond your gun range, but in LoS.

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7 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

My scenario was being locked on to a nearby enemy behind an island, but shooting at a ship just beyond your gun range, but in LoS.

Only if the ship you're locked on is stationary...otherwise the target lock is gonna give you some wonky dispersion considering the 2 ships are so out of alignment that 1 is behind an island while the other isn't...but the dispersion bonus will be in effect...just gonna be a hard time lining that up I'd think.

Even if the ship locked on is stationary it's gonna take some manhandling of the controls to line it up in that scenario...but as long as you stay undetected it doesn't hurt to try.

Edit: RNG sacrifice offers should be at an all-time high to hope for any chance of multiple hits...but maybe a fire from a single hit ain't out of the question.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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Just now, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Only if the ship you're locked on is stationary...otherwise the target lock is gonna give you some wonky dispersion considering the 2 ships are so out of alignment that 1 is behind an island while the other isn't...but the dispersion bonus will be in effect...just gonna be a hard time lining that up I'd think.

Even if the ship locked on is stationary it's gonna take some manhandling of the controls to line it up in that scenario...but as long as you stay undetected it doesn't hurt to try.

I'm just trying to figure out how possible it is.

I don't worry about it normally, I just accept the worse dispersion. Actually, yesterday I used Yorck to hit an enemy BB about 0.3km outside my range.

I only hit with one shell, but it it started a fire, and he had just DCed a fire somebody else lit lol.

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1 minute ago, Skpstr said:

I'm just trying to figure out how possible it is.

I don't worry about it normally, I just accept the worse dispersion. Actually, yesterday I used Yorck to hit an enemy BB about 0.3km outside my range.

I only hit with one shell, but it it started a fire, and he had just DCed a fire somebody else lit lol.

LOL...did you catch my edit?

RNG be praised :-)

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