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Toxygene

Limited Ammo

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If there's one feature of the game that I would love to receive, it's the change to limit all types of ammo. From torpedoes, to planes, to artillery shells. If those were all limited to real-life stocks, the game would get so much more immersive. Firing your weapons would require thought and a decision. Forcing each player to be economical within an engagement would make each engagement more rewarding (if won). I have read about the British force that sunk Scharnhorst - how each ship was virtually out of ammo after the engagement and naturally very vulnerable in case another german force had existed to engage. Imagine this in World of warships - HE spammers that are depleted and no longer a threat. Or a Shima that's out of torps. So many scenarios appear...

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Warships carried enough ammunition for their main guns that ammo would not be a problem for continuous 20 minutes of firing except for but a few of the niche ships (IIRC Haragumo with a theoretical real life ammo limit might run out after 15+ mins of continuous non stop fire). 

Also there is an ammo limit IIRC it's 10,000, someone hit it in a 60min training room.

So ammo limits based on real life loads would have no practical impact on ship gunnery. You would have to short change ships to carry less than their historical loads.

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19 minutes ago, Toxygene said:

If there's one feature of the game that I would love to receive, it's the change to limit all types of ammo. From torpedoes, to planes, to artillery shells. If those were all limited to real-life stocks, the game would get so much more immersive. Firing your weapons would require thought and a decision. Forcing each player to be economical within an engagement would make each engagement more rewarding (if won). I have read about the British force that sunk Scharnhorst - how each ship was virtually out of ammo after the engagement and naturally very vulnerable in case another german force had existed to engage. Imagine this in World of warships - HE spammers that are depleted and no longer a threat. Or a Shima that's out of torps. So many scenarios appear...

You mean you want it easier to play a Battleship, right?

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Limiting ammo to real world values negatively affects ships that depend on torpedoes to do damage, and almost no other ships. The average torpedo hit rate is 7%.

 

For a Shimakaze, that's one torpedo hit for 15-20K damage. A Thunder can do that much every salvo for 20 minutes.

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3 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

Limiting ammo to real world values negatively affects ships that depend on torpedoes to do damage, and almost no other ships. The average torpedo hit rate is 7%.

 

For a Shimakaze, that's one torpedo hit for 15-20K damage. A Thunder can do that much every salvo for 20 minutes.

B-B-B-But it's so hard being a Battleship!

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39 minutes ago, Toxygene said:

If there's one feature of the game that I would love to receive, it's the change to limit all types of ammo. From torpedoes, to planes, to artillery shells. If those were all limited to real-life stocks, the game would get so much more immersive. Firing your weapons would require thought and a decision. Forcing each player to be economical within an engagement would make each engagement more rewarding (if won). I have read about the British force that sunk Scharnhorst - how each ship was virtually out of ammo after the engagement and naturally very vulnerable in case another german force had existed to engage. Imagine this in World of warships - HE spammers that are depleted and no longer a threat. Or a Shima that's out of torps. So many scenarios appear...

That would drastically effect CV play and @Sub_Octavian will never allow anything to effect his special class. 

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Torpedoes already have a ridiculously low hit rate %.  Even Unicums using Destroyers would be d*mn lucky to have double digit torpedo hit %.  Mere mortal players are far worse in the single digits.  And people want them to be limited?

 

People complain about those fast firing Destroyer and Cruiser guns, but ignore the fact that Battleships are your typical Damage Average Leaders for most of the game's tiers.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Tier X Halland is a respected Torpedo oriented DD.

Here is one of the Unicum players for that ship, a guy you can find on the first page as among the leaders.  I pulled him out of blue simply because he had 237 Random Battles with a high 72.15% WR to go with it.  Clearly this guy knew what he was doing.

shot-21-02-05-20-13-32-0695.jpg

Yet look at that... This Unicum Halland player has 11% hits with that ship's torpedoes.

 

If a Unicum is getting low hit % with torpedoes, then I'm against the very idea of limiting torpedoes. 

 

Also, keep in mind the very long torpedo reload times.  1 minute would be considered extremely fast of a reload, many are going at around 2 minutes. 

Meanwhile Battleships will reload in 22, 26, 30, 33 seconds to try and delete some dude.  Hell, we whined for 40 seconds BB reload.

Torpedoes also need plenty of time to arrive on target.  Battleship shells are in the air for a few seconds.

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1 hour ago, Toxygene said:

If there's one feature of the game that I would love to receive, it's the change to limit all types of ammo. From torpedoes, to planes, to artillery shells. If those were all limited to real-life stocks, the game would get so much more immersive. Firing your weapons would require thought and a decision. Forcing each player to be economical within an engagement would make each engagement more rewarding (if won). I have read about the British force that sunk Scharnhorst - how each ship was virtually out of ammo after the engagement and naturally very vulnerable in case another german force had existed to engage. Imagine this in World of warships - HE spammers that are depleted and no longer a threat. Or a Shima that's out of torps. So many scenarios appear...

So you want even more passive games? Cause deadeye wasnt enough?

you understand the idiotic NA player base takes every excuse it can to hide right? Limiting amo would at best result in hiding all match only to yolo at the end in an effort to ensure a few kills.

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1 hour ago, Compassghost said:

Limiting ammo to real world values negatively affects ships that depend on torpedoes to do damage, and almost no other ships. The average torpedo hit rate is 7%.

 

For a Shimakaze, that's one torpedo hit for 15-20K damage. A Thunder can do that much every salvo for 20 minutes.

58 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Torpedoes already have a ridiculously low hit rate %.  Even Unicums using Destroyers would be d*mn lucky to have double digit torpedo hit %.  Mere mortal players are far worse in the single digits.  And people want them to be limited?

 

People complain about those fast firing Destroyer and Cruiser guns, but ignore the fact that Battleships are your typical Damage Average Leaders for most of the game's tiers.

 

I wish people would stop making this misleading point.  Yes, torpedo hit rates are a lot lower.  Torpedoes are also used in ways that shells simply are not and cannot be.  Torpedoes are used as area denial weapons and very often fired down likely avenues of approach without any knowledge that a potential target is even there.  In addition any torpedo that strikes a destroyed target counts as a miss and given how high torpedo salvo damage is overkill is common.  Despite all that, torpedoes would still have a lower hit rate than shells even if only used in comparable ways (just not as low as they are) so in compensation torpedo damage is, in most cases, quite high and if it strikes the torpedo belt counts as citadel damage so most of it cannot be healed back.

 

2 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

So basically, let's nerf cruisers and DDs.

More likely the OP was simply clueless as to the duration of sustained fire that ships could put out and was imagining something more like a tank's ammo count.

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4 hours ago, Toxygene said:

If there's one feature of the game that I would love to receive, it's the change to limit all types of ammo. From torpedoes, to planes, to artillery shells. If those were all limited to real-life stocks, the game would get so much more immersive. Firing your weapons would require thought and a decision. Forcing each player to be economical within an engagement would make each engagement more rewarding (if won). I have read about the British force that sunk Scharnhorst - how each ship was virtually out of ammo after the engagement and naturally very vulnerable in case another german force had existed to engage. Imagine this in World of warships - HE spammers that are depleted and no longer a threat. Or a Shima that's out of torps. So many scenarios appear...

A shima is out after maybe 3 loads dumped because if you look carefully, they can load quickly one set from storage boxes on deck, but would have to open a cargo hold and crane out the rest. In battle, that would be awkward.

Arcade limiting as it were, presume 3 loads could be fired. Laughable as a BB player would just turn. Okay, so balance would kick in and 1 torpedo is now near fatal, 2 sunk. Still, DD has just its guns and they will run out.

Cruisers could fire more loads of torpedoes and may not be affected by balance, but still, they would run out at about an average of 5 loads. Guns again would be their savior, but then that battle gets interesting when both sides are out.

A BB player that knows how to shoot and doesn't broadside like every dang shot may be the winner of this arms reduction treaty. But when they do run out, it is after the game is over and it will be the BBs slamming empty cruisers that eventually get cornered. DDs will simply get the secbat which savvy BB players will simply turn off.

That leaves the CV. with AA also being limited on all ships, a CV will more smartly try to bait the AA until a ship runs out.

CVs can also be limited in..planes, but what if WG decides that to balance them they go back to RTS? Yeah, a lot of BBs would not like that. Cruisers might if balancing gives them better range, but remember that torpedo damage adjustment on line 2 above? 

You see, if you add realism, it could work. But if you have 22 idiots that spent their ammo, then you have a demolition derby on your hands with ramming as the only option. I can just see WG awarding special edition flags with a drum and two sticks above it with words  "Ramming Speed" on it.

The one thing the gaming industry has learned over the years is that too many limits, it is too real, and literally sucks the fun out of a game.

Arcade is where it is at. With the possible exception of some FPS games that make you grab ammo as you go, well at least you have the luxury of ammo drops. 

In a game long ago called Warship Gunner, the game had drops in the game with ammo, currency, and parts. And some special Easter egg targets yielded a double hull complete like Yamato and you could put anything on it. LOL 

Oh the things I put on that hull. My designed ship in that game would never be in this game because it would be too OP. And it had a special drop called unlimited ammo. LOL:cap_haloween: 

 

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5 hours ago, Toxygene said:

Imagine this in World of warships - HE spammers that are depleted and no longer a threat. Or a Shima that's out of torps.

Yes, imagine that - the things you most hate to deal with, magically neutered by a higher power!

All well and good until said higher power decides it's your turn. :Smile_trollface:

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5 hours ago, Toxygene said:

If there's one feature of the game that I would love to receive, it's the change to limit all types of ammo. From torpedoes, to planes, to artillery shells. If those were all limited to real-life stocks, the game would get so much more immersive. Firing your weapons would require thought and a decision. Forcing each player to be economical within an engagement would make each engagement more rewarding (if won). I have read about the British force that sunk Scharnhorst - how each ship was virtually out of ammo after the engagement and naturally very vulnerable in case another german force had existed to engage. Imagine this in World of warships - HE spammers that are depleted and no longer a threat. Or a Shima that's out of torps. So many scenarios appear...

How many scenarios appear for those ships you want to limit to the point that they are not a threat to you?

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Plus, won't it be fun when the last remaining ships are all out of ammo, and they just sail past each other capping (or cap-blocking) for several minutes? Or, if caps wont change the outcome, I guess they sit and chat? :cap_horn:

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6 hours ago, Toxygene said:

If there's one feature of the game that I would love to receive, it's the change to limit all types of ammo. From torpedoes, to planes, to artillery shells. If those were all limited to real-life stocks, the game would get so much more immersive. Firing your weapons would require thought and a decision. Forcing each player to be economical within an engagement would make each engagement more rewarding (if won). I have read about the British force that sunk Scharnhorst - how each ship was virtually out of ammo after the engagement and naturally very vulnerable in case another german force had existed to engage. Imagine this in World of warships - HE spammers that are depleted and no longer a threat. Or a Shima that's out of torps. So many scenarios appear...

NOPE

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6 hours ago, Toxygene said:

If there's one feature of the game that I would love to receive, it's the change to limit all types of ammo. From torpedoes, to planes, to artillery shells. If those were all limited to real-life stocks, the game would get so much more immersive. Firing your weapons would require thought and a decision. Forcing each player to be economical within an engagement would make each engagement more rewarding (if won). I have read about the British force that sunk Scharnhorst - how each ship was virtually out of ammo after the engagement and naturally very vulnerable in case another german force had existed to engage. Imagine this in World of warships - HE spammers that are depleted and no longer a threat. Or a Shima that's out of torps. So many scenarios appear...

It would make the game even more campy and boring. Everyone would hang back and avoid objectives even more than they do now. No thank you.

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WG Had to make numerous compromises to make destroyers and cruisers playable in a game with battleships. In real life everyone got out of the way while the battleships decided who would win the battle. Engagements between destroyers and cruisers or battleships were generally accidents or a desperate attempt to protect the larger ships, and they generally were run in, launch torps then lay smoke and run away. The two biggest compromises the game made are torpedo reloads and concealment. Change either of these drastically and destroyers become unplayable. 

The truth is, life on a warship is 95% boredom and 5% sheer terror. Boredom doesn't make for a good game so a 100% accurate simulation wouldn't be much fun. The current paradigm is close enough to make a playable and interesting game.

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7 hours ago, Toxygene said:

Imagine this in World of warships - HE spammers that are depleted and no longer a threat. Or a Shima that's out of torps. So many scenarios appear...

Imagine also, that Shima being able to kill a BB with 2 torps, that can't be seen from far enough away to dodge. Imagine flooding that couldn't be repaired instantly. Imagine hull or drivetrain damage that permanently reduced speed, because it's unrepairable at sea. 

You're right, the scenarios that could appear would be endless!

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Only if all torps can be launched individually and have the ability to home in.  :cap_tea:

Edited by RipNuN2

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And its gone.

That would be the time to start ramming. pOof enemies all gone.

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I’d say I like it, but I don’t....not even a little. Hard pass. As mentioned above most ships carried enough irl anyway for a standard 20 minute battle of which continuous firing in this game doesn’t happen.

kinda sounds like, big ship no likey pew pews on big ship paint...or big ship no likey metal fish come to boat, do bad things

Edited by ditka_Fatdog

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