Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
LastRemnant

Bots and Smoke

26 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,308
[CLUMP]
Members
1,515 posts
2,180 battles

So I have a question for the wiz kids in Wargaming :fish_book: Who was genius that thought it was a good idea for bots to able shot me while I am in smoke :Smile_amazed: Rarely play DD because quite frankly it's boring but decide to try because what heck but really :Smile_facepalm:

Before anyone comes says they were using hydro or Radar they weren't :fish_palm:

  • Boring 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
273
[KREW]
[KREW]
Members
477 posts
20,732 battles

Post the replay and people could tell you exactly why.

From personal experience, I'm going to say either you were detected (firing bloom penalty) or not the actual target of the shells that hit you.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,417
[O_O]
Members
6,970 posts
16,977 battles

Depending on your speed and if you are firing, you will still be detected for up to a few seconds after you pop your smoke.  Shots fired up to that point may travel several seconds before impact.  This is why you are getting hit after you think you are snuggly safe in your smoke.  Pay attention to when your "detected" notification goes off, then add sufficient seconds for shell flight.  Nothing will hit you after that.  I promise.  :Bots: may cheat on torp launch detection, but they won't shoot at you if they can't see you.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,308
[CLUMP]
Members
1,515 posts
2,180 battles
19 minutes ago, desmo_2 said:

Depending on your speed and if you are firing, you will still be detected for up to a few seconds after you pop your smoke.  Shots fired up to that point may travel several seconds before impact.  This is why you are getting hit after you think you are snuggly safe in your smoke.  Pay attention to when your "detected" notification goes off, then add sufficient seconds for shell flight.  Nothing will hit you after that.  I promise.  :Bots: may cheat on torp launch detection, but they won't shoot at you if they can't see you.

Yeah I know about detection I know when I am detected the yellow icon will appear on the screen the same for Radar and Hydro :Smile_hiding: I put smoke yet in a couple of matches I have seen bot DDs going exactly where I am in smoke shooting in the general direction where I am in smoke :Smile_amazed:   This is was not shots fire while I was still detected :Smile_bajan2:  It seems also that me moving around in smoke throws them off which make no sense since they shouldn't be able to see me :fish_palm:

Edited by LastRemnant
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,181 posts
1,685 battles
35 minutes ago, LastRemnant said:

I have seen bot DDs going exactly where I am in smoke

Bots were not affected by the captain skill rework, all bots have the RDF captain skill.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,649
[RLGN]
Members
15,658 posts
27,382 battles
6 hours ago, Admiral_Kartoffel said:

Post the replay and people could tell you exactly why.

From personal experience, I'm going to say either you were detected (firing bloom penalty) or not the actual target of the shells that hit you.

I’m thinking this.

Idiot bot cruisers and battleships seem to love to pull into my smoke behind me and stop; drawing both fire and torps...

...almost like WG programmed them to do so to screw over players farming from smoke.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet
  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,308
[CLUMP]
Members
1,515 posts
2,180 battles
46 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Replay?

If the replays were just like WOT I would gladly put up but wows replay function is iffy and making a youtube video is a hassle :fish_palm:

25 minutes ago, black_hull4 said:

Bots were not affected by the captain skill rework, all bots have the RDF captain skill.

confused sounds :Smile_amazed: What does RDF mean o_O

24 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

I’m thinking this.

Idiot bot cruisers and battleships seem to love to pull into my smoke behind me B and stop; drawing both fire and torps...

...almost like WG programmed them to do so to screw over players farming from smoke.

 

I get the feeling this is the case for ships going into smoke :Smile_hiding: Still doesn't explain why some ships secondaries are firing at me or just firing at me :Smile_sceptic: I seen weird things happing in COOP in other ships like bots knowing where I am without spotting it happens a lot in CVs :Smile_bajan2:

Edited by LastRemnant
  • Boring 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,192
[HINON]
Members
14,007 posts
8 minutes ago, LastRemnant said:

If the replays were just like WOT I would gladly put up but wows replay function is iffy and making a youtube video is a hassle :fish_palm:

They are automatically saved. All you have to do is use the choose files or drag it onto the bottom of a new post and it will appear here for anyone to look at. It's easy peasy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,308
[CLUMP]
Members
1,515 posts
2,180 battles
1 minute ago, RipNuN2 said:

They are automatically saved. All you have to do is use the choose files or drag it onto the bottom of a new post and it will appear here for anyone to look at. It's easy peasy.

Well I am guessing I am one with issues then :Smile_teethhappy: well fine then I will do test run coop next time I play will post here :Smile_honoring: Maybe it's just my imagination I am just been paranoid they are shooting at something else :Smile_hiding:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
319
[WOLF1]
Members
918 posts
1,893 battles
42 minutes ago, LastRemnant said:

If the replays were just like WOT I would gladly put up but wows replay function is iffy and making a youtube video is a hassle :fish_palm:

confused sounds :Smile_amazed: What does RDF mean o_O

 

I get the feeling this is the case for ships going into smoke :Smile_hiding: Still doesn't explain why some ships secondaries are firing at me or just firing at me :Smile_sceptic: I seen weird things happing in COOP in other ships like bots knowing where I am without spotting it happens a lot in CVs :Smile_bajan2:

RDF means Radio Direction Finding, it is a four point kill for all ships in the previous captain skill tree, and has a pointer that points you to the general direction of the closest ship, detected or undetected, by intercepting radio signals (supposedly)

 

its like passive radar, similar to passive sonar in ships and submarines 

 

it historically has been used to find what radio messages ships have sent, or where they are by identifying patterns in the radio messages. Through this, commanders such as German surface ship raiders  in WW2 have known if a merchant ship has sent out a spotting/distress report

Edited by Boomer625
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
273
[KREW]
[KREW]
Members
477 posts
20,732 battles

what he said - finger pointing up | Meme Generator

And the bots are notorious for heading right for unspotted ships, turning as soon as torps are launched and knowing what type of ammo you have loaded. 
Secondaries at other ships have begun to hit me undetected in smoke since 10.0, due to the nerf of dispersion accuracy. (working as intended™)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4,085 posts
44,091 battles

Bots usually fire continually either by secbat or main guns a few secs after u smoke based on last known indicator. It would seem WG gave bots a wee bit of intuition.

 

It is akin to a guess, but they stop firing eventually based on spot mechanics. Before, they immediately turned guns away as you popped smoke, but if they locked on you, then there is a slight lag between the smoke you popped and the break in contact. The bots use that lag to fire off what seems a sec or 2 of shots. But it is actually just what they had initially loaded before you went dark. 

The best trick in co-op is to pop smoke before you get spotted at all. Do it just before the bot enters your concealment range. 

One of two things happens.

One, they never activate any hydro. Two, they only see a smoke bank and don't know what is there. 

If you send torps at a bot BB for example and no bot DD is next to it, it will not have enough time to dodge them because no early warning. 

The art of DD is to be a ghost. Never be seen,  send the fish, and never be seen as you break away. 

You can even lure them into a smoke bank and torp them. This reduces their own visibility immensely and detection of torpedoes is even harder unless they have hydro. 

You can  get away with a lot if you never trigger a bot's hydro.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
112 posts
3,074 battles

I posted about this too.  My Hawkins pulled into a bank of smoke, was UNDETECTED both before and after entering the smoke... and suddenly became target alpha for the entire enemy team.  Every shot was a hit, even when I started trying to move back and forth inside the smoke.  A BB from beyond line of sight finally hit me for 3 citadels.  I was undetected the whole time.

I haven't played since then.  If smoke and concealment are going to be entirely ignored by the bots, there's no way for destroyers and many cruisers to defend themselves at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,371
[PVE]
Members
10,925 posts
18,896 battles
2 hours ago, desmo_2 said:

but they won't shoot at you if they can't see you.

They do track you with their guns if they don't find another target and are ready to fire the moment they detect you. It's best to be moving when that occurs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,150
[DRFTR]
Beta Testers
3,919 posts
7 hours ago, LastRemnant said:

If the replays were just like WOT I would gladly put up but wows replay function is iffy and making a youtube video is a hassle :fish_palm:

confused sounds :Smile_amazed: What does RDF mean o_O

 

I get the feeling this is the case for ships going into smoke :Smile_hiding: Still doesn't explain why some ships secondaries are firing at me or just firing at me :Smile_sceptic: I seen weird things happing in COOP in other ships like bots knowing where I am without spotting it happens a lot in CVs :Smile_bajan2:

use modstation, and select unlimited replays, makes it easy peasy.  it is weegee supported, updates easily and only downloads mods you have selected.  In the case of replays it is 162B download, so when game version changes it will take seconds to patch likely even on dial up :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,240
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
29,858 posts
25,782 battles
15 hours ago, Admiral_Kartoffel said:

Post the replay and people could tell you exactly why.

From personal experience, I'm going to say either you were detected (firing bloom penalty) or not the actual target of the shells that hit you.

Without a replay, I lean towards this also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,292
[WOLFG]
Members
11,796 posts
10,943 battles
13 hours ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

Bots usually fire continually either by secbat or main guns a few secs after u smoke based on last known indicator. It would seem WG gave bots a wee bit of intuition.

 

 

I haven't mad a close study of this, but it does seem like faster firing ships keep shooting for a bit after you are told you are no longer detected.

Of course, with things like Atlanta, who knows how long the shells have been in the air.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,240
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
29,858 posts
25,782 battles
24 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

I haven't mad a close study of this, but it does seem like faster firing ships keep shooting for a bit after you are told you are no longer detected.

Of course, with things like Atlanta, who knows how long the shells have been in the air.

Shells are always in the air.  People forget that smoke is concealment, not cover.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,292
[WOLFG]
Members
11,796 posts
10,943 battles
Just now, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Shells are always in the air.  People forget that smoke is concealment, not cover.

It's more a feeling they are still firing than a reality.

I think you feel like they are firing at you unspotted more with destroyer guns or secondaries because they usually have the slower speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,240
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
29,858 posts
25,782 battles
11 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

It's more a feeling they are still firing than a reality.

I think you feel like they are firing at you unspotted more with destroyer guns or secondaries because they usually have the slower speed.

People have always felt that just because they popped smoke, like shells in the air shouldn't hit.  They can and they will.

 

Shells are always in the air.  Whether they're from fast firing DD, CL guns.  There's also the slower firing CA, Super Cruiser, Battleship shells which can be fired from longer distances and be in the air for a long time.

 

In PVP I would lob shells over island, estimating that's where the target would be when I lose contact with them.  The shells are hanging in the air and will still sometimes connect long after I lost sight of the target.  You get some hateful chat as a result at times by people that don't know any better.

 

The bots fire, leading as to where they estimate you will be.  If a player sails straight & stupid, even after they get concealed by smoke or just plain 'ol stealth, then they will still get hit by the shells.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,308
[CLUMP]
Members
1,515 posts
2,180 battles

After testing I realize I was mistaken :Smile_teethhappy: It was fire shot at me while I was spot it still gets a spot in smoke under certain reasons that don't involved radar or hydro :Smile_hiding: Thank you for all your replies they have been helpful :Smile_honoring:

Edited by LastRemnant
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4,085 posts
44,091 battles
16 hours ago, DrHolmes52 said:

I haven't mad a close study of this, but it does seem like faster firing ships keep shooting for a bit after you are told you are no longer detected.

Of course, with things like Atlanta, who knows how long the shells have been in the air.

Yes, Atlanta floats shells like balloons from max range and long after one is dead, about 1 minute later to be precise, the last shell would hit my DD. That never gets old, but just like dead torps always leave a wake, shells still come down like rain shortly after the toaster funeral tears are shed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,150
[DRFTR]
Beta Testers
3,919 posts
12 hours ago, LastRemnant said:

After testing I realize I was mistaken :Smile_teethhappy: It was fire shot at me while I was spot it still gets a spot in smoke under certain reasons that don't involved radar or hydro :Smile_hiding: Thank you for all your replies they have been helpful :Smile_honoring:

correct... bloom when firing...

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×