Lexington Rant

[HEYO19191]

I've recently purchased the Lexington Tier VIII Carrier, and have played roughly 10 games with it so far. I've lost every single game. I believe this is because the Lexington gets paired with Tier X/IX ships. I have no idea why wargaming made the choice to do this, as from my expierence, the Lexington is very ill-prepared to fight these types of ships. My first 8-ish battles I played with the stock modules and some ship upgrades. That was an awful experience, so i used free xp to buy the upgraded bomber module, and then spent more money and got the upgrade that increases bomber hp. The next battle, nothing had changed. All of my squadrons were getting destroyed before they could drop their payload, and if they did manage to drop their payload it was extremely inaccurate. But, it was the beginning of the round, and all the enemy ships were bunched up, so I waited until they spread out a bit, then sent out my bombers again (full squadron). I engaged a battleship, which had a cruiser next to it, and, once again, my whole bomber squadron, which I specifically upgraded and bought the bomber health increase upgrade for, was destroyed before the reticle went off cooldown. Nearing the end of the round, I engaged a lone cruiser, and finally was able to deal damage 13 minutes into the round. Even then, a total of 2 planes returned to my ships that round. One ship Had killed 3 squadrons, (except for the 2 planes they managed to make it back) on its own. 2 of those squadrons were full squadrons. Back when i was playing the ranger, 3 or 4 ships needed to be together in order to kill an entire squadron. Now, only 1 ship was needed. 

So, I can't imagine why anyone at wargaming would think that pitting a tier VIII carrier with extremely long plane recovery times, flimsey planes, and medicore damage would need to fight tier X ships.

If anyone has any tips, tricks, or strategies I could use in order to not have all of my planes die, please let me know. I'd hate to have to quit maining cvs because of bad matchmaking, especially when I just spent 15 million credits and 10k freexp

[WesternBloc]

Everything stock on Lexington is plenty usable apart from the dive bombers, which should be upgraded as quickly as possible (I went DBs -> Rockets -> TBs). Focus more on team utility (spotting and destroyer hunting) than farming high AA targets and be judicious with your target selection.

It took me 11 games, all 8-10 games in randoms or 8-9 games in ranked, to earn enough XP to fully upgrade Lex, and while the stock planes weren't fun it wasn' t the end of the world.

[DrHolmes52]

Is Lex your first tier 8 ship?

[warheart1992]

Keep in mind you have to play around 20 battles to calibrate the MM on your ship.

https://eu.wargaming.net/support/en/products/wows/article/26274/

[El2aZeR]

24 minutes ago, HEYO19191 said:

I have no idea why wargaming made the choice to do this, as from my expierence, the Lexington is very ill-prepared to fight these types of ships.

Lexington is arguably the strongest still available T8 CV right now and has no issues with getting up tiered whatsoever. All plane types gain huge boosts in performance when upgraded as they gain an additional plane per attack run, so playing stock is ill advised. Also it is recommended to not use the Tiny Tim rockets but stick with the upgraded HVARs.

 

28 minutes ago, HEYO19191 said:

All of my squadrons were getting destroyed before they could drop their payload, and if they did manage to drop their payload it was extremely inaccurate.

Even against groups of ships this can only happen if you take flak. I have to ask, you know that the black explosions that spawn in front of your planes are not decorative, right? They deal high amounts of damage to your planes if you fly through them, so they need to be evaded. Once you can do that AA becomes a minor nuisance at best.

[Farm_Fresh_Eggs]

.. ,

 

 

 

[Farm_Fresh_Eggs]

...

[SkaerKrow]

If you’re struggling at tier VIII then try going back to tier VI and building up your basic CV skills. 

[Edgecase]

38 minutes ago, HEYO19191 said:

sent out my bombers again (full squadron)

Never do this unless you have very good reason. Pre-dropping becomes standard procedure starting at T8, because the AA tax is high and you stand to waste a lot of planes on the exit if you don't.

 

40 minutes ago, HEYO19191 said:

I engaged a battleship

40 minutes ago, HEYO19191 said:

I engaged a lone cruiser

At high tier, it matters a lot exactly which ship it is. If the battleship was a Musashi, you'd be able to chain bomb it all day, because it has virtually no AA to speak of. If it was a Vermont, you're going to lose whatever planes you send, so don't send more than you absolutely need. Turn on full alternative battle interface and minimap names if you haven't, and you'll have to start memorizing AA strength

 

13 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

44 minutes ago, HEYO19191 said:

All of my squadrons were getting destroyed before they could drop their payload, and if they did manage to drop their payload it was extremely inaccurate.

Even against groups of ships this can only happen if you take flak.

I tend to agree with this assessment. While we don't have a replay to go off of, you generally won't lose a full squadron before they can drop unless you fly into a big clump, make a very slow approach, or hit flak.

[HamAndCheez]

[HEYO19191]

59 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

Is Lex your first tier 8 ship?

It is.

[HEYO19191]

47 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Even against groups of ships this can only happen if you take flak. I have to ask, you know that the black explosions that spawn in front of your planes are not decorative, right? They deal high amounts of damage to your planes if you fly through them, so they need to be evaded. Once you can do that AA becomes a minor nuisance at best.

Well aware. I dodge them the best i can.

[DrHolmes52]

2 minutes ago, HEYO19191 said:

It is.

 

1 hour ago, warheart1992 said:

Keep in mind you have to play around 20 battles to calibrate the MM on your ship.

https://eu.wargaming.net/support/en/products/wows/article/26274/

This is probably why you are seeing so many uptiered games.

[HEYO19191]

34 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

Turn on full alternative battle interface and minimap names if you haven't, and you'll have to start memorizing AA strength

How do I make the alternate menu stay on permanently?

[HEYO19191]

1 minute ago, DrHolmes52 said:

 

This is probably why you are seeing so many uptiered games.

Alright, thanks.

[Compassghost]

In the Settings, there's a checkbox on the 3rd panel called "Alternative Battle Interface" which can be set to full.

[Pebcac]

2 hours ago, HEYO19191 said:

I've recently purchased the Lexington Tier VIII Carrier, and have played roughly 10 games with it so far. I've lost every single game. I believe this is because the Lexington gets paired with Tier X/IX ships. I have no idea why wargaming made the choice to do this, as from my expierence, the Lexington is very ill-prepared to fight these types of ships. My first 8-ish battles I played with the stock modules and some ship upgrades. That was an awful experience, so i used free xp to buy the upgraded bomber module, and then spent more money and got the upgrade that increases bomber hp. The next battle, nothing had changed. All of my squadrons were getting destroyed before they could drop their payload, and if they did manage to drop their payload it was extremely inaccurate. But, it was the beginning of the round, and all the enemy ships were bunched up, so I waited until they spread out a bit, then sent out my bombers again (full squadron). I engaged a battleship, which had a cruiser next to it, and, once again, my whole bomber squadron, which I specifically upgraded and bought the bomber health increase upgrade for, was destroyed before the reticle went off cooldown. Nearing the end of the round, I engaged a lone cruiser, and finally was able to deal damage 13 minutes into the round. Even then, a total of 2 planes returned to my ships that round. One ship Had killed 3 squadrons, (except for the 2 planes they managed to make it back) on its own. 2 of those squadrons were full squadrons. Back when i was playing the ranger, 3 or 4 ships needed to be together in order to kill an entire squadron. Now, only 1 ship was needed. 

So, I can't imagine why anyone at wargaming would think that pitting a tier VIII carrier with extremely long plane recovery times, flimsey planes, and medicore damage would need to fight tier X ships.

If anyone has any tips, tricks, or strategies I could use in order to not have all of my planes die, please let me know. I'd hate to have to quit maining cvs because of bad matchmaking, especially when I just spent 15 million credits and 10k freexp

 

 

Funny.   I recently brought a tier 5 BB.  It has 0 AA.  It gets 2 Cvs every game and I have no defense.  That was (and is) an awful experience

Removing CVs from the game would fix your issue above and my issue with low tier BB and Cruisers... e.g. St louie.  I too thought about using free XP to upgrade my ship or to get a better ship.  I really can't be bothered as I believe uptiering myself won't fix the issue of no AA.

 

As for YOUR issue with the planes.  As YOUR planes go ALOT faster than ships, YOU get to choose where they go and where (and when) to engage.  If 1 ship kills 3 Sqns, YOU obliviously failed to learn a lesson when the 1st Sqn died and repeated this mistake two more times.  That is on you.

My final point.  Grats on learning the MM+/-2 also happens at tier 8.  It does get better at tier 9 with +1/-2, and better again at tier 10.  Obviously, there is no tier 9 CV (yet).  Most people learn about +/-2MM about tier 5.  Grats on finally learning about MM   

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

2 hours ago, HEYO19191 said:

and 10k freexp

Ouch.

I think you probably should have ground that out in Ranger and got more experience at Tier 6... unless you were racing to grab the steel for Lexy's snowflake and didn't have enough time to finish the grind, in which case I can understand doing what you did.

Watch Ahskance on YT or Twitch, or Toptier on YT, both of whom feature a lot of carrier play. Ahskance is active on the NA forums also. 

[Pebcac]

3 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Ouch.

I think you probably should have ground that out in Ranger and got more experience at Tier 6... unless you were racing to grab the steel for Lexy's snowflake and didn't have enough time to finish the grind, in which case I can understand doing what you did.

Watch Ahskance on YT or Twitch, or Toptier on YT, both of whom feature a lot of carrier play. Ahskance is active on the NA forums also. 

Yeah - Ahskance does do some nice vids and will often make suggestions/answer questions when asked with @<insert_name>

[AdmiralFlame76]

3 hours ago, HEYO19191 said:

I've recently purchased the Lexington Tier VIII Carrier, and have played roughly 10 games with it so far. I've lost every single game.

It happens, I had a hard time with USN carriers (except Midway) due to the slow planes. I feel like Japanese carriers are better for players that want to win more and do more damage because with Lexington I on average can do 48k damage, while on Shokaku I can do 65k average damage and I win more. Here are some strategies I use on USN CVs:

1. When using dive bombers go to the left or right side of a enemy ship(the enemy ship needs to face your planes bow on or it will not work) before you attack and let them click prior sector(can be seen if they are making a additional blast of AA) on that side and then swing around to the other side and you are exposed to little AA and this is how I attack ships with dive bombers.

2. I suggest you to use only 2/3 of your squadron when attacking because the more planes you lose, the more likely you will lose the battle. Go around a mountain where the ships is at and ambush them by starting attack run as your under mountain cover. If in open waters attack ships you feel like are a threat, first begin attacking a ship and dodge the flaks(black bubbles) by turning to where they didn't landed and begin attacking(if torpedo bombers use repair party at 3km) and click F if you want to send back planes.

3.Slow planes can result defeat even with reasonable damage because you won't be able to support allied ships as frequently if the enemy CV is a AVP or a shokaku, so plan ahead think smart. Lexington is not a good ranked battle CV(from my perspective, I have a 20% win rate with that ship in ranked).

4.I don't really suggest grinding the USN CV line, Japanese CVs have good win rates and good damage.

[UltimateNewbie]

3 hours ago, HEYO19191 said:

If anyone has any tips, tricks, or strategies I could use in order to not have all of my planes die, please let me know.

I am far from a CV main - I’m actually pretty bad in them - but the following is based on my observations of good carrier players.

One key basic lesson to avoid the high damage flak is to approach your target in a curve, not a straight line, and to change speed. The AI will put up flak based on where it straight line predicts your planes will be - so don’t make it easy for them. The flak bursts get pretty strong at T8+, but most players don’t notice because they fly around them and only the continuous damage AA is doing anything. 

Remember, CVs are primarily a support ship and get stronger as the battle goes on. So the next thing I would suggest is target selection - early on in a battle, it is often best for a CV to mainly just try to spot the enemy team, so your team knows if it is rushing A or C etc. next up, attack any non-Swedish destroyers who you’ve spotted and drop on them - but also try to linger so they stay lit for as long as possible so your team can shoot at them too. 

Mid- battle, you are looking for strays - ships that used to have some support but are now alone, preferably ones that have come under quite a bit of HE spam to break whatever AA they had. These ships can be farmed to get your damage numbers up - but remember to keep trying to spot the enemy team when sensible. 

Late-battle, you have a very important job of killing off wounded enemy ships - whether DDs, cruises or battleships. Taking them out of the battle quickly is the most important thing for points and because a 1% HP enemy ship still shoots at your team with 100% firepower. 

Hopefully, these things help you. Obviously captain skills, modules and etc will have a role to play in optimising your attack capability, but spotting, target selection, and dodging flak are the skills you will need to do well in any carrier. 
 

As you are a new player, I have also copied some information below that may be of assistance. Good luck!

 

There are a range of great resources to help new players; both on these forums and on youtube etc; I strongly encourage you to read the following: 

• How to set up your game client to get the information you need towin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSCb96CLCs4
• (For brand New Players - a full comprehensive guide) iChase's How to get good at World of Warships - I wish this was around when I started!
• (For New Players) - Wargaming's 'How It Works' series that explains the game's mechanics - important to learn these as it differs to real life.
• (For New Players looking to become Intermediate) my Ship Role Quick Reference Guide to understand how to get the best out of your ship every battle and how to deal with enemy ships of the same type. 
• (For Intermediate players) LittleWhiteMouse's guide to How to take control of your win rate:  https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/75077-how-to-control-your-win-rate/
• For players at any level who are interested in personalised feedback on a particular battle, get in touch with Lord_Zath and his replay centre - its an amazing service that you should take advantage of.  
• You are under absolutely no obligation to spend money on this game - it is entirely free to play including at high tiers. 
  • Understanding the economics of WoWS and tips for playing as free-to-play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDgwH2w-k7U
  • Still, if you are interested in buying a premium ship, a discussion on what premium ships are good value for newer players can be found on my New Player Guide Premium Ships for New Players.
    • The second post in this thread has some good advice on how to rapidly become a better player through teamwork and positioning - see Section 3 - its worth a read!

[Edgecase]

2 hours ago, HEYO19191 said:

How do I make the alternate menu stay on permanently?

Settings > Controls > Alternative Battle Interface > Full

Or something like that.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

13 hours ago, DrHolmes52 said:

Is Lex your first tier 8 ship?

The OP is a CV main, 313 Random Battles.  Lexington is his first Tier VIII.  He's undergoing "High Tier Shock" right now.  Prior to VIII Lexington, his highest tiered ship was Tier VI Ranger, which he played 123 Random Battles in.  47% WR could be better, but considering his PVP experience, that's just fine.

 

@HEYO19191 The jump from mid tier combat (Tier V-VII) and into High Tier (VIII-X) is a massive jump in lethality.  I think my first Tier VIII was North Carolina and it was a big surprise to see how combat was in a High Tier game compared to what I saw before at Tier VI & VII.  Don't be discouraged.  You'll get used to the more dangerous environment in High Tier combat.  Learn from your mistakes and if you need help, feel free to ask around.  We do have some CV Mains to get you on the right track.  If posting your CV specific questions in the future, it may be more useful to do so in the Aircraft Carrier subforum, or the American Aircraft Carriers one.  General Discussion gets a lot of traffic with lots of stuff not about CVs, so your specific questions may not get answered, as it will get bumped down easily to the 2nd page or something.

 

I'll also say this to help you out as a newer PVP'er.  Just hitting the "BATTLE!" button and piling up your battles count will not make you better.  If you are making mistakes, repeating them is only going to instill bad habits.  If something is going wrong, you have questions with what you're seeing, ask.  Feel free to attach your replay(s) so people can see what's going on.  Posting a thread describing what happened may not have all the details with what truly went down.  The replay will remove all doubt and provide all information that a more experienced, better player can see and provide feedback.  There may be crucial details that you did not notice. 

There is a replay specific folder in your WoWS directory, like this: C:\Games\World_of_Warships\replays

[Estimated_Prophet]

3 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Lexington is arguably the strongest still available T8 CV right now and has no issues with getting up tiered whatsoever.

(-)

Even against groups of ships this can only happen if you take flak. I have to ask, you know that the black explosions that spawn in front of your planes are not decorative, right? They deal high amounts of damage to your planes if you fly through them, so they need to be evaded. Once you can do that AA becomes a minor nuisance at best.

While I don’t disagree with Lexington being usable when uptiered; I can only laugh sadly at players who talk about dodging AA puffs like it’s nothing.

Sorry; but not everyone has your Fred Astaire-esque, tip-toe through the tulips levels of dodging ability.

[LastRemnant]

Lexington stock planes suck anyone that says other is lying to you  Upgrade planes are better if where you I would upgrade everything before getting the tiny tims because apparently, they are useless after they nerfed them  Pretty much grind all the upgrades planes and hull in COOP except for tiny tims  Will ever bother to going into randoms possibly not