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Skpstr

Who decides what tier a ship is?

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Why is Dante a T4, and Cavour a T5? As far as I can tell, Cavour is at best a sidegrade in a couple areas, and a downgrade in most.

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Good question.  Doesn't look like WG had much of a ranges of choices as the Dante, Cavour, and Doria all seem similar.  They couldn't have started with the Regina-Elena (although another Mikasa would have been great fun in my book).  Ship spec wise it looks like a big jump up to the Littorio class.  I'll bet the "Tier decision meeting" didn't take long - historical accuracy isn't as much of a priority anymore - sad to say.

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Let's see ... Doria has way more hitpoints, is faster, has way better guns that hit harder, better reload, more range, better gun handling ...

Yeah total sidegrade at best.

Misread OP. My bad.

Edited by Lert
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7 minutes ago, Lert said:

Let's see ... Doria has way more hitpoints, is faster, has way better guns that hit harder, better reload, more range, better gun handling ...

Yeah total sidegrade at best.

That's interesting, but the OP asked about Dante and Cavour. Nowhere in his post is Doria mentioned.

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11 minutes ago, Lert said:

Let's see ... Doria has way more hitpoints, is faster, has way better guns that hit harder, better reload, more range, better gun handling ...

Yeah total sidegrade at best.

To be fair, Cavour does have 1000 extra HP than Dante lol.

But Dante has more guns, faster turret traverse, better concealment, and is more maneuverable. Everything else is almost identical to Cavour.

Doria certainly looks like an improvement.

Edited by Skpstr

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36 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

Why is Dante a T4, and Cavour a T5?

Dante's turret layout is older and less friendly with respect to fire directly forward or aft. Cavour moves to the ABQXY layout with friendlier arcs and one more barrel, and IIRC Q turret (the centre triple) turns 360 degrees - and is the ONLY Q turret at Tier 5 which does this. 

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3 minutes ago, HamAndCheez said:

That's interesting, but the OP asked about Dante and Cavour. Nowhere in his post is Doria mentioned.

... Fair point. Shows me for posting when I'm tired.

Cavour slightly more hitpoints, not enough really to matter. Near enough the same speed. Worse citadel protection. Less guns, faster reload, same shells, a bit more range.

Yeah, sidegrade. Things like range, reload etc are open to balancing. Still, where else would you put them? Can't put them both at the same tier unless you make one a premium, and then you have a spot left open in the tree.

Edited by Lert

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5 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Dante's turret layout is older and less friendly with respect to fire directly forward or aft. Cavour moves to the ABQXY layout with friendlier arcs and one more barrel, and IIRC Q turret (the centre triple) turns 360 degrees - and is the ONLY Q turret at Tier 5 which does this. 

Somehow I missed the extra barrel, I was thinking it was only 4 turrets, in a Dallas/Pensacola layout.

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the magic 8 ball. 

joking aside it seems to have no reason at all. we have cold war ships at T8-10 for some trees and 1930s desings for other T9-10 ships. 

maybe they play spin the vodka bottle to pick. 

i would have broke it down more to years. so pre WW1, WW1 inter war years, WW2 , post WW2. 2 ships per year break and you have a line. you could even do the planned but not built for some of the smaller navies. 

make them the class normal for the line and sell the named ships as premium with a skill that they really did in battle. mabe even some downsides. i.e. warspite long range acuracy as she has the record ( ok tie) with the longest hit, and the KGV having bad turrets or they get knocked out a lot as they had problems. 

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In all honesty, I expect Dante to get nerfed before the line is finalized. 

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Is the Anrea Doria particularly vulnerable to ramming, especially by Swedish ships? :Smile_hiding:

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Dante has to be a Tier IV because she preceded the Conte di Cavour-class.  As for stats and capabilities, that's all WG design also. 

A side note, Giulio Cesare is Conte di Cavour's sister.  It's just the tech tree ship is the pre-major refit version while Cesare got the historical refit.  Both ships got the refit in 1933-1937.

Conte di Cavour in her 1919 configuration, pretty close to her WoWS version.

Conte_di_Cavour_Q_50930.jpg

Both Conte di Cavour and Giulio Cesare after their major refits.  Cesare is in the front.

Giulioce07.jpg

Hilariously, both versions are in the same tier.

ONI drawing for the class in 1943.

ONI_Drawing_of_Conte_di_Cavour-class_bat

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20 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Hilariously, both versions are in the same tier.

To be fair, they might as well be completely different ships given how extensive the refit was, and it’s pretty widely accepted that GC is OP for tier V (so much that WG wanted to bump her to tier VI with just a plating buff, IIRC).

Although I’ve wondered, can you imagine the salt if WG had made Leonardo Da Vinci the tech tree tier V and released the rebuilt Cavour at tier VI as a premium, using the parameters WG tested for the tier VI GC? :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by Nevermore135

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3 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

To be fair, they might as well be completely different ships given how extensive the refit was, and it’s pretty widely accepted that GC is OP for tier V (so much that WG wanted to bump her to tier VI with just a plating buff, IIRC).

Although I’ve wondered, can you image the salt if WG had made Leonardo Da Vinci the tech tree tier V and released the refit Cavour at tier VI as a premium, using the parameters WG tested for the tier VI GC? :Smile_teethhappy:

It would have been more reasonable.  Cesare breaks Tier V in ways that only Belfast and Musashi in their respective tiers can only dream of.

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3 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Dante has to be a Tier IV because she preceded the Conte di Cavour-class.  As for stats and capabilities, that's all WG design also. 

A side note, Giulio Cesare is Conte di Cavour's sister.  It's just the tech tree ship is the pre-major refit version while Cesare got the historical refit.  Both ships got the refit in 1933-1937.

Hilariously, both versions are in the same tier.

It's funny how Konig got a fantasy refit, but Cavour didn't.

I played a game in Cavour today, to try it out. Compared to the other T5s, it's garbage.

I haven't played New York for a long time, I'm thinking even it's probably better.

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19 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

It's funny how Konig got a fantasy refit, but Cavour didn't.

I played a game in Cavour today, to try it out. Compared to the other T5s, it's garbage.

I haven't played New York for a long time, I'm thinking even it's probably better.

IMO, New York's problem (which I guess extends to Texas also) is not in their main batteries.  It's how easy it is to Cit them.  Nevada-class (Oklahoma in the game is her sister) is where the USN adopted the All-Or-Nothing scheme with their "Standard Battleships" which emphasized protection of vitals over everything else.  New York-class preceded that shift in design.  The Standard USN BBs have issues, but they are sturdy botes.

 

Konig should still be a solid ride, a good balance on gunnery, speed, protection.  But AP Bombers would scare me.  She actually had a pretty good AA Build in the RTS CV era, but of course, that no longer exists.

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19 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

She actually had a pretty good AA Build in the RTS CV era, but of course, that no longer exists.

It's not horrible, against the CVs you normally face. And the secondaries are definitely improved. 

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