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HamAndCheez

Winds of Change, Indeed

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image.png.ba1e07b16dbf8cfa656c925196761fa6.png

 

The more things change, the more they stay the same? "successfully served the needs of players ever since"? Time for an edit.  :Smile_trollface:

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i dunno, years of farming it with 19's....  are ppl complaining they were able to do that?

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I mean, prior to that change, all we had was a 10,000,00 XP or something placeholder for the unattainable 20th captain point. Or whatever the numbers were at the time.

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Thing is, the Commander rework in 0.6.0 reduced the CXP requirements, making them much more accessible, introduced Elite Commander XP, and in general was well received with the exception of RPF.

 

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I think what he is saying is, we initially had 15 point Commanders, when WG realized that the majority of players had multiple 15 pointers, they (WG) felt the need to increase the point totals to 19 points per maxed out commander.  Now 3 years in the future (patch 0.10.0),  WG has come up with another bogus excuse to increase maxed out commanders to 21 points.  I wonder if in 3 years we (the Players) will have asked for another increase as we supposed asked for this increase according to WG.

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12 minutes ago, Nutaz said:

I think what he is saying is, we initially had 15 point Commanders, when WG realized that the majority of players had multiple 15 pointers, they (WG) felt the need to increase the point totals to 19 points per maxed out commander.  Now 3 years in the future (patch 0.10.0),  WG has come up with another bogus excuse to increase maxed out commanders to 21 points.  I wonder if in 3 years we (the Players) will have asked for another increase as we supposed asked for this increase according to WG.

Only in 0.6.0 the CXP costs for advancing were reduced, AND Elite Commander XP also made it's appearance.

From the wiki page.

Quote

In addition to the Commander skill overhaul and Elite Commander XP, the amounts of XP required for reaching a new rank changed. Now it will be slightly harder to level up the Commander at the initial stage. But it will now be simpler to reach high Commander ranks! Before Update 0.6.0, players had to earn a total of 1,540,000 XP to reach the 18th skill point. After the update, only 1,408,000 XP is required. Moreover, we changed the amount of XP required to progress from the 18th to the 19th skill point. Before Update 0.6.0, this amount was equal to 10,000,000 XP. After the update, only 300,000 XP is required for this.

 

1865427283_Screenshot_2021-02-23Update060-GlobalwikiWargamingnet.png.017838ff3c9c90e453490a58b59a13be.png

 

Edited by warheart1992
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1 hour ago, Nutaz said:

I think what he is saying is, we initially had 15 point Commanders, when WG realized that the majority of players had multiple 15 pointers, they (WG) felt the need to increase the point totals to 19 points per maxed out commander.  Now 3 years in the future (patch 0.10.0),  WG has come up with another bogus excuse to increase maxed out commanders to 21 points.  I wonder if in 3 years we (the Players) will have asked for another increase as we supposed asked for this increase according to WG.

I expect WG will be pretty liberal with that "little black magic" when they provide another player-requested increase in 3 years.

I find it humorous that WG gave with one hand in 0.6.0 (cost less to increase to 19 pts) but took away with the other in 10.0.0 (increased cost - and not on a scale - to reach 21 points)

However, kudos to giving 5% ECXP in every battle!

Still, I gotta see some "fixes" before I start playing again. Specifically, the abortion that is Grease the Guns!

Edited by Khafni

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3 hours ago, Nutaz said:

I think what he is saying is, we initially had 15 point Commanders, when WG realized that the majority of players had multiple 15 pointers, they (WG) felt the need to increase the point totals to 19 points per maxed out commander.

That needed to happen though. We initially had 15 point commanders, but also 5 tiers of skills, the highest of which was only available to those with 15 point captains.

After that change, you could take a highest-tier skill at 10 points, and have more than one skill from each tier.

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4 hours ago, Nutaz said:

I think what he is saying is, we initially had 15 point Commanders, when WG realized that the majority of players had multiple 15 pointers, they (WG) felt the need to increase the point totals to 19 points per maxed out commander.  Now 3 years in the future (patch 0.10.0),  WG has come up with another bogus excuse to increase maxed out commanders to 21 points.  I wonder if in 3 years we (the Players) will have asked for another increase as we supposed asked for this increase according to WG.

1 additional point will be sufficient. 

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those of us who never had 19's... even though the grind is now longer to 21 obviously, appreciate getting the 5% at least...  i think all i currently have likely came in a xmas box or something, i really do not know where it came from... until obviously i started earning with the rework.  I don't track it, i barely watch fxp either...  

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5 hours ago, HamAndCheez said:

image.png.ba1e07b16dbf8cfa656c925196761fa6.png

 

The more things change, the more they stay the same? "successfully served the needs of players ever since"? Time for an edit.  :Smile_trollface:

Yes, things have changed: 

I've stopped spending.  Recently, I did buy "early release" stuff to make the grinds easier.....  Now, nothing. 

I've stopped playing full-time.  Before, I played everyday and had defined objectives to accomplish.  Now, at best, part time and there is nothing to even grind for........let alone use or need.

I've stopped recruiting.  Before, I would recommend this game to local eSports clubs and Organizations.  Now, it is on the "not recommended lists because I nor anyone else would recommend it anymore....

I've stopped recommending.  Before, because this is a non-graphic-gore game, I would "recommend" this game for ESRB-T age children.  Now, when asked, No..........

I've stopped stalling and will work to make all "gaming" safer and better in the future. 

By the way, a cool song...........

"The future's in the air
Can feel it everywhere
Blowing with the wind of change"        Scorpions, 1991.
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I played the game for years, long enough to learn how to farm a increasing number of 19's with the goal of maxing out all commanders to the 15 or so ships at the time.

The commander rework to 21 completely and utterly destroyed the income in ECXP leaving all 60 or so commanders stranded with their ships. I think the 19 in the Shima has about 280,000 towards 20 and a few others less than that towards 20, maybe 4000 ECXP on hand after almost this month of gaming.

I simply got to where two years worth of grinding EXCP by the hundreds of thousands evaporated. I simply quit that part of the game. I cannot be bothered to give a damn long enough to do anything to get to a 21. I have 5 million unconverted XP on hand in game but thats about $1000 dollars worth of doubleloons to bring two or three 19's to 21. F That. Be better off buying a bunch of ships and finishing a number of trees against the next winter snowflake for steel. Clan battles is no go, I might merc a little bit for a dab of it but it's not a valid source of steel. Might as well be on the moon.

Even if you had a 21 commander, the required minimum skills makes the commander and ship build somewhat less than the previous rework ships skills. (Some of which are removed entirely.) Its not all bad, Ive adapted. Because everyone got equally shafted across the entire game world. So we wallow with crappy ships and worse commanders. And no chance outside of a mountain of dollars which I find repulsive to use right now. Its not going to happen.

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15 hours ago, xHeavy said:

I played the game for years, long enough to learn how to farm a increasing number of 19's with the goal of maxing out all commanders to the 15 or so ships at the time.

The commander rework to 21 completely and utterly destroyed the income in ECXP leaving all 60 or so commanders stranded with their ships. I think the 19 in the Shima has about 280,000 towards 20 and a few others less than that towards 20, maybe 4000 ECXP on hand after almost this month of gaming.

I simply got to where two years worth of grinding EXCP by the hundreds of thousands evaporated. I simply quit that part of the game. I cannot be bothered to give a damn long enough to do anything to get to a 21. I have 5 million unconverted XP on hand in game but thats about $1000 dollars worth of doubleloons to bring two or three 19's to 21. F That. Be better off buying a bunch of ships and finishing a number of trees against the next winter snowflake for steel. Clan battles is no go, I might merc a little bit for a dab of it but it's not a valid source of steel. Might as well be on the moon.

Even if you had a 21 commander, the required minimum skills makes the commander and ship build somewhat less than the previous rework ships skills. (Some of which are removed entirely.) Its not all bad, Ive adapted. Because everyone got equally shafted across the entire game world. So we wallow with crappy ships and worse commanders. And no chance outside of a mountain of dollars which I find repulsive to use right now. Its not going to happen.

@Hapa_Fodder a very common and succinct statement of the reality of where we are ^^^^^.   It's actually worse that you know........  Many are angry.  Many are frustrated.  Some simply have given up on your team and have no faith in what they say.  Everyday we get screwed by the game adds another name to the "what have you done list......."  Some uninstall.  Some retire.  Some stop spending.  Some "just don't care anymore" and that ruins in-game quality.  Anyway if you look at this change wide scale, it's a lose-lose.  There is no up side for a great many of us...............

You reap what you sow........  And, if you've salted the Earth; nothing can grow.......  Nothing can adapt to that:.........not even ocean plants because they need to be in the water........  You all need to stop and return first world quality back to this small niche market very, very soon or there will be nothing left but a few hard core diehards whom can't abandon what they spent a fortune to obtain.   The rest will leave..........game histories seem to point that way.....

JMO and I hope that someday, what many of us recommend or suggest get's through........

Edited by Asym_KS
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16 hours ago, xHeavy said:

The commander rework to 21 completely and utterly destroyed the income in ECXP leaving all 60 or so commanders stranded with their ships.

"Oh boo hoo hoo! I'm not earning ECXP at full rate any more! I'm going to have grind just like the plebs who are barely on 10-pointers! The playing field has been levelled and now I don't want to play any more! Boo hoo hoo!"

That's how you're sounding to me right now.

When the rework went live, I was within easy reach of my tenth 19-pointer; it would have been the sixth I'd promoted that year. Once I found out what the target was to bump a 19 up to 21, I was (a) not impressed and (b) glad I hadn't spent the ECXP. So I ground with the intention of creating ONE 21-pointer as soon as the patch went live and rebuilding from there. This I did.

I'm now about a week away (at my fairly relaxed pace, not particularly concentrating on the ECXP grind) from re-promoting the second. I expect things to snowball from there.

In the meantime, most of my ships do not have 21 pointers or even 19 pointers on them, and there are a few that don't even have 10 pointers. What should I do? Refuse to play them? Or take them out anyway and see what I can do with what they've got? "Stranded" my aft. "Spoiled" is more like it.

1 hour ago, Asym_KS said:

And, if you've salted the Earth; nothing can grow

I would venture to suggest that the anti-rework fanatics (and the anti-CV fanatics before them) have done more to salt the earth around here than Wargaming ever has.

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25 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I would venture to suggest that the anti-rework fanatics (and the anti-CV fanatics before them) have done more to salt the earth around here than Wargaming ever has.

It all adds up.  Not all the griping is about anything of import, but some of it is.  And everyone has a different threshold at which they decide they've had enough.  Some people might have multiple.  I mean, there's a lot of stuff in this game that irks me but not to an extreme degree.  And then "grease the gears" absolutely grinds my gears because it's an idiot implementation that's knackered most of my fleet.  Maybe a lot of people couldn't care less, or maybe they think it's small stuff compared to what's grinding their gears.  But whatever each instance is, it is absolutely clear that salt levels, even in co-op, are off the charts.  There's a cumulative mass of really PO'd people in the game now, and maybe they're all PO'd about different stuff, but the common thread is that absolutely everyone in this game has at least one common request:

If they have to change the game, could they please maybe stop making it worse?  

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22 hours ago, Nutaz said:

I think what he is saying is, we initially had 15 point Commanders, when WG realized that the majority of players had multiple 15 pointers, they (WG) felt the need to increase the point totals to 19 points per maxed out commander.  Now 3 years in the future (patch 0.10.0),  WG has come up with another bogus excuse to increase maxed out commanders to 21 points.  I wonder if in 3 years we (the Players) will have asked for another increase as we supposed asked for this increase according to WG.

The difference is, in the previous major change to captain skills, WG didn't make the new points cost an onerous additional amount in CXP,  didn't load on a bunch of dubious or useless new/changed skills, and didn't backdoor-nerf an entire type of ships (cruisers). 

 

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52 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

"Oh boo hoo hoo! I'm not earning ECXP at full rate any more! I'm going to have grind just like the plebs who are barely on 10-pointers! The playing field has been levelled and now I don't want to play any more! Boo hoo hoo!"

That's how you're sounding to me right now.

When the rework went live, I was within easy reach of my tenth 19-pointer; it would have been the sixth I'd promoted that year. Once I found out what the target was to bump a 19 up to 21, I was (a) not impressed and (b) glad I hadn't spent the ECXP. So I ground with the intention of creating ONE 21-pointer as soon as the patch went live and rebuilding from there. This I did.

I'm now about a week away (at my fairly relaxed pace, not particularly concentrating on the ECXP grind) from re-promoting the second. I expect things to snowball from there.

In the meantime, most of my ships do not have 21 pointers or even 19 pointers on them, and there are a few that don't even have 10 pointers. What should I do? Refuse to play them? Or take them out anyway and see what I can do with what they've got? "Stranded" my aft. "Spoiled" is more like it.

I would venture to suggest that the anti-rework fanatics (and the anti-CV fanatics before them) have done more to salt the earth around here than Wargaming ever has.

Oh gosh, I deleted what I wanted to reply.  Too long and you aren't even interested in listening.......  

Strong opinions about change are a good thing!!  Cultures aren't one dimensional.....  And, look in the mirror......your position is the opposite of what the ""fanatics" postulate.....  So, who is right?  As I have said before and provided data for my position of this skill tree change, they (economy devaluations and cost changes), historically damage the mature games they occur in........

Our host has salted the Earth with gimmick sales and an Economy devaluation; because, they realized that new, first world content isn't economically possible.......  Heck, they dismissed their R&D team last year if I remember correctly....  Ah, that isn't a good sign for future growth.....

And, one last thought: we are the customers of a product.  And, some of us, want this game to survive where others, whom have done the same thing, didn't...... 

 

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Salted earth indeed.

Sun Tzu calls this fatal terrain.

I have thought about turning my back on the increasingly crappy game product of Wows, it would be similar to WOTs years ago. However, I made the decision that two things will happen. I'll give Wows the rest of the year and second I'll pick and purchase some of the effective Russian Warships and play them. If it generates what I think they will with 21 points in them etc then we'll probably stay a while.

Never mind the thousands of dollars spent. I blow through twice or three times that many over 20 years building gaming computers. Im getting ready to spend about 3000 to 4000 in upgrading video on the current machine among other needed hardware upgrades. It will still be cheaper than a full on system build for the future which I don't think I have medically. Ive got about two to three years at best at the current rate of decline. Its not a problem at my age. Ive had a full run.

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4 hours ago, Asym_KS said:

Oh gosh, I deleted what I wanted to reply.  Too long and you aren't even interested in listening.......  

Strong opinions about change are a good thing!!  Cultures aren't one dimensional.....  And, look in the mirror......your position is the opposite of what the ""fanatics" postulate.....  So, who is right?  As I have said before and provided data for my position of this skill tree change, they (economy devaluations and cost changes), historically damage the mature games they occur in........

Our host has salted the Earth with gimmick sales and an Economy devaluation; because, they realized that new, first world content isn't economically possible.......  Heck, they dismissed their R&D team last year if I remember correctly....  Ah, that isn't a good sign for future growth.....

And, one last thought: we are the customers of a product.  And, some of us, want this game to survive where others, whom have done the same thing, didn't...... 

It's funny that he'd accuse anyone else of "salting the earth", given the belligerence and belittlement he's spewing in the upper part of that post you quoted.  

Not surprising... it's the standard practice of too many of the self-appointed gatekeepers of what's an "acceptable comment" on the forums... but still funny. 

 

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter
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7 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I'm now about a week away (at my fairly relaxed pace, not particularly concentrating on the ECXP grind) from re-promoting the second. I expect things to snowball from there.

its always nice when you get to a point with something good that it starts that snowball effect, quite satisfying really, truly rewarding the hard work put in

Edited by tcbaker777

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6 hours ago, Asym_KS said:

Heck, they dismissed their R&D team last year if I remember correctly....  Ah, that isn't a good sign for future growth.....

 

Source?  Article that I can read about it?  Now that you've got me curious.

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1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Source?  Article that I can read about it?  Now that you've got me curious.

It was reported in the forums from a Dev article and was questioned.  I do not have the original source and I am pretty sure you could search the forum for it !

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11 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

It was reported in the forums from a Dev article and was questioned.  I do not have the original source and I am pretty sure you could search the forum for it !

Thanks for the reply.

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On 2/23/2021 at 1:20 PM, warheart1992 said:

Only in 0.6.0 the CXP costs for advancing were reduced, AND Elite Commander XP also made it's appearance.

From the wiki page.

1865427283_Screenshot_2021-02-23Update060-GlobalwikiWargamingnet.png.017838ff3c9c90e453490a58b59a13be.png

One other thing that's not obvious from this table is that the 0.6.0 skill system made viable builds cheaper. For example, concealment expert, which is pretty much a must-have skill on any ship (especially DDs) could be attained after just 10 captain points instead of 15. This was a huge quality of life improvement.

Can't think of anything similar to that in the 0.10 captain system. The best I can come up with is things like Demolition Expert becoming 33% cheaper (but its effectiveness dropped by 50%), or torpedo acceleration skill doesn't gimp range anymore (but the speed boost is smaller now).

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7 hours ago, vak_ said:

One other thing that's not obvious from this table is that the 0.6.0 skill system made viable builds cheaper. For example, concealment expert, which is pretty much a must-have skill on any ship (especially DDs) could be attained after just 10 captain points instead of 15. This was a huge quality of life improvement.

Can't think of anything similar to that in the 0.10 captain system. The best I can come up with is things like Demolition Expert becoming 33% cheaper (but its effectiveness dropped by 50%), or torpedo acceleration skill doesn't gimp range anymore (but the speed boost is smaller now).

If anything, the older skill revamp was the opposite of the 0.10.0 rebork. 

 

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