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Bandi73

USN Reckon Task Force vs IJN CV & DD battle group - Flambass

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As per the title...and the tags

Be advised, possible stronk language :)

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Deleted. 

Thought this was the one he did about Ten Go. This is a different one so my comments don't apply.

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Not really a reenactment of Operation Ten Go as he/some are claiming. Not an accurate one anyway. He used Midway and FDR for the US CV's, both Midway class CV's, which weren't the right ones and he only used 3 CV's when it was 8 IRL (might not be his fault if TR limits CV's to 3?).

The actual US CV's that took part were...

  • Hornet (Essex Class)
  • Essex (Essex Class)
  • Bennington (Essex Class)
  • Bunker Hill (Essex Class)
  • Hancock (Essex Class)
  • Belleau Wood (Independence Class)
  • San Jacinto (Independence Class)
  • Bataan (Independence Class)

So it was Essex and Independence class CV's/CVL's. A more accurate reenactment would have been to use Enterprise and  Lexington from the in game CV choices. I suppose he may have been trying to make up for only being able to use 3 CV's by using the best ones but it is not accurate. In game, Enterprise and Lexington use the F6F Hellcat, F4U Corsair, SB2C Helldiver, and TBF Avenger planes and those are the ones that were used in the actual battle so he could have used the actual IRL planes. As the CV's themselves did not fight what matters for accuracy is the planes that were used and he could have matched those planes with the T8 US CV's. 

He really took liberties with the IJN ships. For starters he didn't include Yahagi. He said there weren't any Cruisers in the IJN fleet when Yahagi was there. Not a ship of the same class as Yahagi, but the actual Yahagi. He also had 11 DD's when the IJN Fleet only had 8 (7 actually as 1 had mechanical issues and turned back before any fighting took place), Once again he also picked ships that weren't there (good portion anyway) when he had the option to pick in game ships that were of the appropriate class. Flambass used...

  • 5X Harugumo (not a real ship - planned but never built - at least named as part of Michitsuki Class)
  • 3X Kitakaze (paper ship)
  • 3X Akizuki (Akizuki class)

Actual DD's in the IJN Fleet during Operation Ten Go...

  • Asashimo (Yugumo Class) This is the ship turned back
  • Yukikaze (Kagero Class)
  • Isokaze (Kagero Class)
  • Hamakaze (Kagero Class)
  • Suzutsuki (Akizuki Class)
  • Fuyutsuki (Akizuki Class)
  • Kasumi (Asashio Class)
  • Hatsushimo (Hatsuharu Class)

So why not do it with in game ships that represent what the IJN actually had to use, not to mention the right number of them, vs picking paper/planned ships that weren't there (because he wanted max AA, more AA then was present, not IRL accuracy it seems).

I mean it was fun to watch and all but IMO anyway if he had gone for IRL accuracy it would have been even better. This really wasn't a reenactment of Operation Ten Go. It was something he setup "similar to" that IRL event and he rigged it so his side would win. He hates CV's and wanted to be able to win it. It's not like the IJN had a choice of picking made up/paper ships not built because they were better than what they actually had.

The sides should have been

US CV:

  • 3X some combo of Enterprise and Lexington


IJN:

  • Yamato
  • Yahagi
  • 3X Kagero
  • 2X Akizuki
  • Asashio
  • Hatsuharu

If he wanted to add in a Yugumo because it was originally part of the IJN Fleet ok I guess even if not actually there.

THAT would have made for a reenactment. What he did really isn't one. It's sort of like revisionist history LOL. It's like he claimed to be reenacting the Battle of Denmark Straits using GK and Hindenburg vs Thunderer and Conqueror instead of using Bismarck and Prinz Eugen vs Hood and KGV (or DOY - same ships basically as POW). What's the point of a reenactment if you don't use the actual participants (or as close as possible)? Personally, if he had tried harder to make it more historically accurate, which as I have shown isn't that hard, it would have been a far more interesting watch.

Hmm.....you are correct sir, but:

a) This thread is not about ..."Ten- Go". That would be this thread

b) Faithful reenactment is not possible, because Cv's are hard capped at 3 per side. Furthermore the number of ships is, again, hard capped , so even with best intentions, it is simply not possible.

This, and the another thread points out the fact that even with the limited resources of an "ordinary" player, the implementation of new and possibly fun battle modes, are quite possible. All it takes is willinges on WeeGee's part. Which is shamefully..... not present. I asked for and continually will ask for new and/or event like battle modes and the reintroduction of old scenarios and new ones.

For example how about a "Jutland weekend" a once in a month event, a BB only battle mode, with "variable" tiers. How about a "Tin can weekend" a DD only mode, again once in a month.?There is literally no development cost involved, the maps exists, ships exits it is only an adjustment of the MM.All it takes is just some goodwill.

Don't get me wrong, your input is more then welcomed, I quite like history and naval history in particular. 

Edited by Bandi73
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I really respect and enjoy how he uses whatever tool is at hand (in this case training rooms to create scenarios) to craft an enjoying game experience for him and his audience. 

If you are "forced" to do something you don't enjoy, then better use some creativity and find a way to enjoy it.

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This was actually interesting to watch. Flambass' screening DDs were too close for most of the fight though. They should be a bit further out and in layers like an onion rather than in a close clump like they historically used. USN AA is just under 6km. The outermost screen DDs should probably be about 6km with the inner ones at about 3. That way the attacking planes fly through successive layers of flak and can't use the damage reduction from the attack run to mitigate all the damage at once. It also lets the AA from the outermost DDs hit the planes from behind making it hard to dodge. The distance will also help with the torp detection and avoidance times and help with DD detection. 

Edited by Tzarevitch

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14 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

That way the attacking planes fly through successive layers of flak and can't use the damage reduction from the attack run to mitigate all the damage at once. It also lets the AA from the outermost DDs hit the planes from behind making it hard to dodge.

Damage reduction only applies to the attacking wing. It is thus best to clump up into a single gigantic blob to ensure effective DPS coverage. By spreading out you'd just make it a lot easier for planes to break through and/or pick off the ships on the edge.

There is no difference in flak timing regardless of position.

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52 minutes ago, Bandi73 said:

Hmm.....you are correct sir, but:

a) This thread is not about ..."Ten- Go". That would be this thread

b) Faithful reenactment is not possible, because Cv's are hard capped at 3 per side. Furthermore the number of ships is, again, hard capped , so even with best intentions, it is simply not possible.

This, and the another thread points out the fact that even with the limited resources of an "ordinary" player, the implementation of new and possibly fun battle modes, are quite possible. All it takes is willinges on WeeGee's part. Which is shamefully..... not present. I asked for and continually will ask for new and/or event like battle modes and the reintroduction of old scenarios and new ones.

For example how about a "Jutland weekend" a once in a month event, a BB only battle mode, with "variable" tiers. How about a "Tin can weekend" a DD only mode, again once in a month.?There is literally no development cost involved, the maps exists, ships exits it is only an adjustment of the MM.All it takes is just some goodwill.

Don't get me wrong, your input is more then welcomed, I quite like history and naval history in particular. 

I already edited my post before you posted this. My comments were totally about his other video where he claiemd to be reenacting Ten Go. He failed on that one IMO. But again I didn't realize this was a different video so it was my mistake.

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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Flambass got friends together and made his own fun. This was inventive and entrepreneurial, and if enough people do it, WG might actually take it on.

Don't just expect WG to serve it to you on a platter, though. It requires effort and co-ordination.

26 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

I really respect and enjoy how he uses whatever tool is at hand (in this case training rooms to create scenarios) to craft an enjoying game experience for him and his audience. 

If you are "forced" to do something you don't enjoy, then better use some creativity and find a way to enjoy it.

This.

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32 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

This was actually interesting to watch. Flambass' screening DDs were too close for most of the fight though. They should be a bit further out and in layers like an onion rather than in a close clump like they historically used. USN AA is just under 6km. The outermost screen DDs should probably be about 6km with the inner ones at about 3. That way the attacking planes fly through successive layers of flak and can't use the damage reduction from the attack run to mitigate all the damage at once. It also lets the AA from the outermost DDs hit the planes from behind making it hard to dodge. The distance will also help with the torp detection and avoidance times and help with DD detection. 

This. He tried to use and direct his escorts as a sort of .... "shield". Not as an actual "screening force". Remember the Cv's weren't alone, there were also   dd's.

 

36 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

rather than in a close clump like they historically used.

That was one of the reasons for the demise of SMS "Szent István" a Viribus Unitis class BB of the K.u.K

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Szent_István

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19 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Don't just expect WG to serve it to you on a platter, though. It requires effort and co-ordination.

You sir are presenting it very...interestingly.:) 

19 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Flambass got friends together and made his own fun. This was inventive and entrepreneurial, and if enough people do it, WG might actually take it on.

 

Yeah. Somebody please explain to Weegee the hidden concept of ...."fun". Like to a five year old. Oh wait.....  

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I honestly like what Flambass is doing, trying to recreate historical scenarios in the training rooms as a hands on interactive activity with his viewers i always wanted to do some french ones like:

1: Battle of Dakar

2: Attack on Mers-el-Kébir

3: Naval Battle of Casablanca

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