Proposal: German Battlecruiser Line

[40902nd]

I make no secret that I like the battlecruiser playstyle. To that end, I would like to see more battlecruisers in game, and the natural choices are the British and the Germans. German battlecruisers were generally better armored than their British counterparts, with smaller guns. The are counted as Battleships in game and the line branches off from the main German line via the engines of the Kaiser.

Pros
+Good armor
+Better Acceleration than Tech Tree counterparts
+Potential for Good Secondaries (with modernization)
+External belt (as opposed to the internal belt of the later British)

Cons
-Tend towards smaller gun calibers than British Counterpart
-Few barrels (After Moltke, never more than 8)
-After Mackensen, no Turtleback (reliant on coal as armor)

 

Tier IV
Moltke-Class

Displacement: 22,979t (Design) 25,400t (Full)
Health: 40,800
Length: 186.6m (612ft 2in)
Beam: 29.4m (96ft 5in)
Belt: 280mm
Speed: 25.5kts (28.4kts max)
Main Armament
5x2 28cm L/50
AP: 7,400
HE: 3,200; Fire Change: 20%

Secondary Armament
12x 15cm/45 SK C/09 guns in casemate
12x 8.8cm/45 SK 

Consumables
Damage Control Part
Repair Party

Opening the line at tier IV is the Moltke-Class. A straight upgrade to the Nassau that precedes him, the Moltke loses a turret, but gains the ability to fire all guns on a broadside if cross-deck firing is allowed, or merely equals the barrel count if not. The armor is largely the same, but the guns are slightly superior and the mobility is greatly improved. Armor and firepower are inferior to Kaiser, but again, mobility is the key. Speed is actually so great in this ship that it might be best to tone down her max if it seems that she is having too easy of a time hunting cruisers. Other factors like reload and turret traverse can also be used to help reign in this potential monster.

 

Tier IV -Premium-
SMS Von der Tann

Displacement: 19,370t (Design) 21,300t (Full)
Health: 35,600
Length: 171.7m (563ft 4in)
Beam: 26.6m (29ft 3in)
Belt: 250mm
Speed: 24.8kts (27.4kts max)
Main Armament
4x2 28cm L/45
AP: 7,200
HE: 3,200, Fire Change: 19%

Secondary Armament
10x 15cm/45 SK C/09 guns in casemate
16x 8.8cm/45 SK 

Consumables
Damage Control Part
Repair Party

SMS Von der Tann, the first German Battlecruiser. While I'd put HMS Invincible at tier III, I put Von der Tann at tier IV because, while lesser than the Moltke, he is still a potent package. One less turret, and with weaker guns and armor, to boot, this ship will still run circles around other, true Battleships. The ship is historically significant for a number of reasons and deserves to be remembered in-game. That I believe he is still capable of holding his own, while being weaker than the tech tree ship makes this a perfect premium choice. I throw my money behind it.

 

Tier V
Derfflinger-Class

Displacement: 26,600t (Design) 31,200t (Full)
Health: 47,700
Length: 210.4m (690ft 3)
Beam: 29m (30ft 2in)
Belt: 300mm
Speed: 25.5kts (26.6kts max)
Main Armament
4x2 30.5cm SK L/50 C/08
AP: 8,400
HE: 3,500; Fire Chance: 23%

Secondary Armament
12x 15cm/45 SK C/09 guns in casemate (14 on Lutzow & Hindenburg)
12x 8.8cm/45 SK 

Consumables
Damage Control Part
Repair Party

The first battlecruiser with a fully center-line mounted battery and the trend-setter for the rest of the line, Derfflinger losses some of the edge over his tier mate, the Kaiser, though better acceleration and turning should make this battlecruiser still feel more agile than the true BB. While not a dud, I am not as excited for this ship as I am for some of the others.

 

Tier V -Premium-
SMS Seydlitz

Displacement: 24,988t (Design) 28,550t (Full)
Health: 44,500
Length: 200.6m (658ft 2in)
Beam: 28.5m (93ft 6in)
Belt: 300
Speed: 26.5kts (28.1kts max)
Main Armament
5x2 28cm L/50
AP: 7,400
HE: 3,200; Fire Change: 20%

Secondary Armament
12x 15cm/45 SK C/09 guns in casemate
12x 8.8cm/45 SK 

Consumables
Damage Control Part
Repair Party

The Moltke, but better, I think Seydlitz deserves to be a Tier V premium. With armor to match the Derfflinger-Class and definite cross-deck firing, the Seydlitz sacrifices shell diameter for an extra turret and speed. This would be a fun ship to zip around in, though it might be a little seal-clubby.

 

Tier VI
Mackensen-Class

Displacement: 31,000t (Design) 35,300t (Full)
Health: 52,500
Length: 223m (731ft 8in)
Beam: 30.4m (99ft 9in)
Belt: 300mm
Speed: 28kts (Possibility of an engine upgrade if needed)
Main Armament
350mm/45 SK C/14
AP: 10,500
HE: 4,000; Fire Chance: 27%

Secondary Armament
14x 15cm/45 SK C/09 guns in casemate
8x 8.8cm/45 Flak

Consumables
Damage Control Part
Repair Party

Launched, but never completed, the Mackensen-Class is the last of the tech tree battlecruisers in this list to be designed with a turtleback armor scheme. A member of this class is already in-game, the Prinz Eitel Friedrich, and it one of the ships that inspired me to make this list. A possible modernization to this class is the addition of 4 twin 15cm and 6 twin 10.5cm  should WG design to further differentiate this ship from the P. E. Friedrich.  

 

Tier VII
Ersatz Yorck-Class
[Name]

Displacement: 33,500t (Design) 38,000t (Full)
Health: 55,700
Length: 227.8m (747ft 5in)
Beam: 30.4m (99ft 9in)
Belt: 300mm
Speed: 27.3kts
Main Armament
4x2 38cm/45 LC/1913
AP: 10,900
HE: 4,500; Fire Chance: 35%

Secondary Armament
14x 15cm/45 SK C/09 guns in casemate
8x 8.8cm/45 Flak

Consumables
Damage Control Part
Repair Party
Engine Speed Boost

A Mackensen with 15-inch guns, the Ersatz Yorck-Class is not a fantastic ship, and would definitely be served to have Engine Boost, to keep him up to speed.

 

Tier VIII
GK 2
Hela-Class

[Image to Come]

Displacement: 38,000t (Design) ~43,320 (Est. Full)
Health: 62,000
Length: 235m
Beam: 30.4m
Belt: 300mm
Citadel: 240mm
Speed: 29.5kts
Main Armament
4x2 38cm/45 LC/1913
AP: 10,900
HE: 4,500; Fire Chance: 35%

Secondary Armament
16x 15cm/45 SK C/09 guns in casemate
8x 8.8cm/45 Flak

Consumables
Damage Control Part
Repair Party
Hydro-Acoustic Search
Engine Speed Boost

The GK 2 is what was wanted instead of the Ersatz Yorck-Class, though the Mackensens were too far into production and it was thought that it would be better to continue their construction. After a fictional modernization, it should be possible to give this ship Bismarck-esque secondaries.

 

Tier VIII -Premium-
GK 11
Hetzog von Falkenstein-Class

http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/plans/SM_Studienentwurf/GrosseKreuzer_11_100dpi.jpg

Displacement: 37,000t (Design) ~42,180 (Est. Full)
Health: 60,700
Length: 230m
Beam: 31.0
Belt: 300mm
Citadel: 200mm
Speed: 28kts
Main Armament
4x2 38cm/45 LC/1913
AP: 10,900
HE: 4,500; Fire Chance: 35%

Secondary Armament
16x 15cm/45 SK C/09 guns in casemate
8x 8.8cm/45 Flak

Consumables
Damage Control Part
Repair Party
Engine Speed Boost

This is the last design that I could find that had turtleback armor. GK 1-3, 6-10, and 12 do not, instead relying on coal stores to act as extra armor. This extends to the other GK series designs that I could find. For his extra survivability, I think it would be fair to take away his Hydro, since it would help differentiate the GK 11 from GK 2. A modernization can help make him more secondary-heavy.

 

Tier IX
GK 4532
[Name]

http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/plans/SM_Studienentwurf/Schnelle_GrosseKampfschiffe_4532_100dpi.jpg

Displacement: 45,000t (Design) ~51,300 (Full)
Health: 71,400
Length: 240m
Beam: 33.5m
Belt: 350
Citadel: 300
Speed: 30kts (31kts max)
Main Armament
6x2 42cm/45 SK
AP: 13,300
HE: 5,000; Fire Chance: 41%

Secondary Armament
8x 15cm/45 SK C/09 guns in casemate
4x 15cm/45 AA

Consumables
Damage Control Part
Repair Party
Hydro-Acoustic Search
Engine Speed Boost

Armed with three two-gun 16.5-inch guns, the GK 4532 is armed fairly heavily. Extensive modernization can be carried out, increasing the ship's speed significantly and additional AA can be placed to increase the ship's secondaries. The GK 4532 has 4 centerline 15cm guns which can be converted into DP mounts. Adding additional 12.8cm twin DP guns will give this ship formidable AA and secondaries. With his turret layout, the GK 4532 is better at kiting away than pushing.

 

Tier X
GK 5041
[Name]

http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/plans/SM_Studienentwurf/Schnelle_GrosseKampfschiffe_5041_100dpi.jpg

Displacement: 50,000t (Design) ~57,000 (Full)
Health: 78,200
Length: 270m
Beam: 33.5m
Belt: 350mm
Citadel: 300mm
Speed: 30kts (31kts max)
Main Armament
8x2 42cm.45 SK
AP: 13,300
HE: 5,000; Fire Chance: 41%

Secondary Armament
8x 15cm/45 SK C/09 guns in casemate
4x 15cm/45 AA

Consumables
Damage Control Part
Repair Party
Hydro-Acoustic Search
Engine Speed Boost

The last of the line, the biggest battlecruiser that I could find designed by the German Navy. I did a rough springsharp of this ship, and a modernized GK 5041 could easily fit Grosse Kurfurst secondaries and 34kt speed. This was done without doing the more complex operations, like factoring in the armor taper or the like, which makes me believe that such a modernization would be more than capable of being fielded.

 

Special thanks to @OccultRogue for helping me translate the German.

[BrushWolf]

While your proposal is unlikely to go far it does open up the possibility of an Ottoman premium at tier 4 as the Yavuz Sultan Selim. Since she served Turkey until she was decommissioned in 1950 a very good for tier 4 AA suite is more than justified but even as built the 12 88's would be pretty brutal.

 

[40902nd]

The 88s that she has are surface action, only, sadly. I don't believe she had any AA guns mounted.

[BrushWolf]

57 minutes ago, 40902nd said:

The 88s that she has are surface action, only, sadly. I don't believe she had any AA guns mounted.

I am certain that a high angle dual purpose mount was devised even before the end of WWI just as Skoda developed the same for the anti-torpedo guns on the Viribus Unitis.

[40902nd]

I was going to say that I didn't think any of the 11-inch Battlecruisers had AA on them, but I checked my sources, just to be sure.

SMS Von der Tann had 4x1 88 AA Guns retained for AA use after 1916. These are located on the Aft Tower.

Moltke-Class also had 4x1 88 AA guns, similarly on the Aft Con Tower.

SMS Seydlitz had 2x1 88 guns, same location.

Derfflinger had 4-8 depending on ship and time.

Makensen  and Ersatz Yorck were due to have 8 AA guns.

GK 1-3 & 6-12 were also supposed to have 8x1 88 AA guns.

GK 3021-5041 were designed with 4x1 150mm AA Flak guns, usually clustered around the 'X' turret, if you'll excuse English nomenclature on a German ship. GK 4532 probably had the most interesting positioning of these, which is why I chose that one.

This is a long winded way to say that I was wrong, they had AA, but it was not the entirety of the 88 compliment.

[Rolkatsuki]

I would love to see this line in the german tree as someone that enjoys using PEF.

[michael_zahnle]

I would begin the German line with SMS Blucher, the last of Germany's armored cruisers.  At Tier III this ship would branch off the cruiser line, which would be fitting since Kolberg was the last of the protected cruisers.  The other battlecruisers would follow from there instead of branching off the battleship line.

12x2 210mm guns at 25.4 knots with respectable armor protection for its class.  Certainly outmatched by the Invincible class that she was originally intended to face, and was typically deployed with the German battlecruiser squadron.

  SMS Blücher - Wikipedia

 

[frankfletcher_1]

6 hours ago, michael_zahnle said:

I would begin the German line with SMS Blucher, the last of Germany's armored cruisers.  At Tier III this ship would branch off the cruiser line, which would be fitting since Kolberg was the last of the protected cruisers.  The other battlecruisers would follow from there instead of branching off the battleship line.

12x2 210mm guns at 25.4 knots with respectable armor protection for its class.  Certainly outmatched by the Invincible class that she was originally intended to face, and was typically deployed with the German battlecruiser squadron.

  SMS Blücher - Wikipedia

 

Is it just me or do ships named Blücher seem to sink a lot

[40902nd]

I've deliberately stayed away from Tier III, as Wargaming seemingly has little interest in making Tier IIIs, since they are usually skipped. Also, the guns are too small to function as a battleship, though I could see her as a potential tier IV or V super-cruiser. Really, she is just a very awkward ship to try and fit. I will, however, give it some thought.

[michael_zahnle]

2 hours ago, 40902nd said:

Wargaming seemingly has little interest in making Tier IIIs, since they are usually skipped. 

I've noticed that, but since this is fantasy its fun to speculate.  Having the line begin by branching off at Tier III would spark interest in grinding low tier ships to get at the battlecruisers.  The same could be done for the British beginning with HMS Warrior class, also the last armored cruisers before Invincible.   

As for Blucher's smaller guns, they would fire faster than opposing battleships at that tier and could be given a tighter dispersal thus matching their DPM.  

[40902nd]

I'd have to find it again, but WG said they were going to start the Italians at Tier III because most people just Free XP their way through it. As WG won't do Tier III tech tree ships, I'll be omitting them from mine.

However, this does not mean Tier III ships are off the table. Instead, if a ship warrants inclusion, I will add it as a Premium. As a spoiler, I have the Invincible as a Tier III for the RN Battlecruiser class. It will have a split in it, one branch which is done, and another that looks like it will require a Fantasy ship in it.

Anyway, I won't be adding Blucher as a Tech Tree ship, but I might include her as a premium, though the list is already premium-heavy as-is.