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partridge_in_a_pear_tree

Manual secondaries still worth it on Mass/Georgia?

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Title says it all, can't decide if the 35% accuracy buff is still a good use of 4 points. Is it enough of a bonus over the already-pretty-accurate secondaries to matter? Or are the other skills so obviously better that I shouldn't bother anymore? I know it's still good on German secondaries because they buffed the base accuracy preemtively, but with Mass/Georgia is it even worth considering?

And what about the new BFT style-skill that also boosts main battery reload when in secondary range, Close Quarters Combat? LWM said it's hot garbage in her Angry Youtuber Review of battleship skills, but -10% on the main battery has me intrigued. Any thoughts on that one? Even if it's not all that great... is it potentially more worthwhile than manual secondaries?

Thanks for any input anyone has on this matter.

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You should have experimented with that before the patch. My opinion is that it is still worth it because with the old system only guns that could bear on the selected target fired where now if a gun cannot shoot at the target it will fire on the closest enemy in range including the the off side. The hit rate at long range is definitely lower but not so much when closer.

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33 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

You should have experimented with that before the patch. My opinion is that it is still worth it because with the old system only guns that could bear on the selected target fired where now if a gun cannot shoot at the target it will fire on the closest enemy in range including the the off side. The hit rate at long range is definitely lower but not so much when closer.

Not only all this,  but even if you have the manual sec skill (whatever the new name is), with the new skill, secs will fire whether you have a target selected or not.

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48 minutes ago, partridge_in_a_pear_tree said:

Title says it all, can't decide if the 35% accuracy buff is still a good use of 4 points. Is it enough of a bonus over the already-pretty-accurate secondaries to matter? Or are the other skills so obviously better that I shouldn't bother anymore? I know it's still good on German secondaries because they buffed the base accuracy preemtively, but with Mass/Georgia is it even worth considering?

And what about the new BFT style-skill that also boosts main battery reload when in secondary range, Close Quarters Combat? LWM said it's hot garbage in her Angry Youtuber Review of battleship skills, but -10% on the main battery has me intrigued. Any thoughts on that one? Even if it's not all that great... is it potentially more worthwhile than manual secondaries?

Thanks for any input anyone has on this matter.

It may not feel worth it for randoms, but in coop where brawling is still a thing, secondary gun skills still  seem worth it to me.

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9 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Not only all this,  but even if you have the manual sec skill (whatever the new name is), with the new skill, secs will fire whether you have a target selected or not.

Correct but you need to have a target selected to get the 35% bonus.

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1 hour ago, partridge_in_a_pear_tree said:

Thanks for any input anyone has on this matter.

I played GA in Ranked Battles The Second Season at 53% WR today using a mostly Attack Skills build including GtG, L-RSBS, ISBA, and CQC; also flying Mike Yankee Soxisix and November Foxtrot Combat signals.  YMMV.

 

shot-21.02.22_08.49.46-0745.jpg

shot-21.02.22_08.49.50-0895.jpg

Edited by Charon2018
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7 minutes ago, partridge_in_a_pear_tree said:

I think people overestimate the utility of having both sides firing. That only matters if you've positioned yourself terribly.

I look at the off side firing as more of an early warning notice, ships that were not a threat can become one rather quickly particularly if they have not been spotted.

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1 hour ago, partridge_in_a_pear_tree said:

Title says it all, can't decide if the 35% accuracy buff is still a good use of 4 points. Is it enough of a bonus over the already-pretty-accurate secondaries to matter? Or are the other skills so obviously better that I shouldn't bother anymore? I know it's still good on German secondaries because they buffed the base accuracy preemtively, but with Mass/Georgia is it even worth considering?

And what about the new BFT style-skill that also boosts main battery reload when in secondary range, Close Quarters Combat? LWM said it's hot garbage in her Angry Youtuber Review of battleship skills, but -10% on the main battery has me intrigued. Any thoughts on that one? Even if it's not all that great... is it potentially more worthwhile than manual secondaries?

Thanks for any input anyone has on this matter.

Well, i am using manual secondaries on Georgia, but not CQC, i will get the extra heal instead (when i get to 21 pts). Been doing fine in Ranked.

Only on my Odin/Scharnhorst i got CQC.

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43 minutes ago, partridge_in_a_pear_tree said:

I think people overestimate the utility of having both sides firing. That only matters if you've positioned yourself terribly.

 Not always true DDs sneak up on you and sometimes you just have to fight more than one ship . You cant always dictate the way the battle goes so when this happens it helps .

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I have removed manual secondaries from all but my Pommern (cause wth else is the point of pommern but to brawl). I’ve found the 35% buff to accuracy to not be worth the 4 very valuable commander points that it costs. FP, CE, and yes dead eye are my 4 point priorities. I still pay three points to extend my secondaries range on American and French ships. Secondaries are still useful, but manual is much less so. 

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1 hour ago, Charon2018 said:

I played GA in Ranked Battles The Second Season at 53% WR today using a mostly Attack Skills build including GtG, L-RSBS, ISBA, and CQC; also flying Mike Yankee Soxisix and November Foxtrot Combat signals.  YMMV.

 

shot-21.02.22_08.49.46-0745.jpg

shot-21.02.22_08.49.50-0895.jpg

In keeping w/the point of the thread...& just out of curiosity...how much of that 108.5k damage was from the 140 2ndary hits?

Doesn't look like any fires were started from them (or your mains)...do you have IFHE on it or was that just bad fire setting RNG?

Nice battle 1 way or the other.

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Secondary build is instilled in my (BB)Mass...

The Mass with a secondary build is still a good build for a great ship. Especially, when cruisers do not want to move up and low detection DDs want to torp you, from point blank range to your next match.

Is it worth it ??? IMO yes! I played her with secondary build before the cpt rework... I just dont see any other build replacing the secondary build with the (BB)Mass.

 

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1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

In keeping w/the point of the thread...& just out of curiosity...how much of that 108.5k damage was from the 140 2ndary hits?

Doesn't look like any fires were started from them (or your mains)...do you have IFHE on it or was that just bad fire setting RNG?

Nice battle 1 way or the other.

►See Attachment.

►There were 4 fires started-by the sec's; see Attachment.  I solo capped versus 2 enemy BBs within sec's range.  I'm not running IFHE, as per LWM's recommendation. for GA.

►Thanks.

shot-21.02.22_08.43.20-0686.jpg

Edited by Charon2018
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10 minutes ago, Charon2018 said:

►See Attachment.

►There were 4 fires started-by the sec's; see Attachment.  I solo capped versus 2 BBs within sec's range.  I'm not running IFHE, as per LWM's recommendation. for GA.

►Thanks.

shot-21.02.22_08.43.20-0686.jpg

My bad...your fire ribbons were hidden by your achievement highlights in the screenshots.

Guess the only real question is was there any other skills that might have been able to help you score an additional 28.7k damage if you didn't take the 2nds skills you took?

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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36 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Guess the only real question is was there any other skills that might have been able to help you score an additional 28.7k damage if you didn't take the 2nds skills you took?

Possibly, but I'm comfortable with the group I chose.  Some of the new skills appear rather marginal and limiting to me.

Edited by Charon2018
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If you are German or one of the four special US battleships (Oklahoma, Massachusetts, Georgia, and Ohio), then manual secondaries are still worth it. Everything else, no.

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Pre rework my secondary hit ratio was over 30%, now its close to 15% with a full secondary build.  USN secondaries needed the improved accuracy because of their relatively weak pen values.  They can really only damage the superstructure of heavily armored ships and they are not accurate enough to reliably hit the smaller, lightly armored ships at range.

Is it worth it?  Well considering deadeye is going away, secondary build is probably your best option but don't kid yourself, this "rework" was a massive nerf to the 3 usn premium ships touted as secondary focused ships.   But not to fear, I am sure WG will fix it by selling a newer, shinier premium that performs as good as these three used to.  

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Modo antigo era muito melhor que hoje , o que a dianta secundária dIspara doS dois lado e erra tudo do que dispara um lado de cada vez e obter melhor resultado. Hoje dos DD debocham dos jogadores de BB por que é mas facil de dar banzai , falo isso pq ja testei as secundária em DD e erram muito. É só a Wg volta os -60% dos comandante que o problema acaba. Não vejo hoje as secundária eficiente. Quem comprou Massachusetts se ferrou , meu me senti lesado pois tenho o siegfrid pos a secundaria dele era boa ,  Gk , pommer , hoje erram tudo as secundária.

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On 3/16/2021 at 10:36 AM, HallaSnackbar said:

Pre rework my secondary hit ratio was over 30%, now its close to 15% with a full secondary build.  USN secondaries needed the improved accuracy because of their relatively weak pen values.  They can really only damage the superstructure of heavily armored ships and they are not accurate enough to reliably hit the smaller, lightly armored ships at range.

Is it worth it?  Well considering deadeye is going away, secondary build is probably your best option but don't kid yourself, this "rework" was a massive nerf to the 3 usn premium ships touted as secondary focused ships.   But not to fear, I am sure WG will fix it by selling a newer, shinier premium that performs as good as these three used to.  

This is a number I have been looking to compare to.  I cannot believe what WG has done to secondaries.  I just got plinked to death from a Druid, firing from 8-9KM away.  Totally helpless for 20-30 seconds at a time with my secondaries on a Georgia with built out secondaries.  All he had to do is dip and dodge and I'd be lucky to catch him with the mains.  He was full HP basically, I knocked him down to 50% while I was at about 25% HP and hit him TWICE with secondaries.  TWICE. This Druid just wiped a FDG with 30-40% HP.  Same thing, he couldn't hit it.  Now I know that ship is in progress, but no DD without torps should be able to attack two secondary build BBs with impunity.  

Normally, I play DDs mostly.  I mentioned the other day in game I would never stay within 8KM of a Massachusetts plinking away with my Kidd's 127s.  But, I do now.  He was engaged with another BB with his mains and I just plinked away, starting fires for probably a minute before the BB finished him.  And he did have me as a priority target.  

I just finished a game in close combat with mostly BBs.   14% hit rate, on BBs within 10KM most of the time??  I mean, I could see lower hits on a shifty little DD, but BBs??

So frustrating when they take something that isn't broken and then do something like this.  They should give us a button where we can manually take over the secondaries...the ships targeting view would only be firing the secondaries when the automatic fire is overridden.  At least I would feel like I was fighting back instead of some nerfed algorithm firing shells into the water half way to a ship 7KM away.

Georgia Secondary - Post Secondary Nerf.JPG

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