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Usedcarjock

Lepanto: Or My First Thoughts On Italian BBs

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I was blursed enough to get the opportunity to spend 1500 dubs for a Tier IX BB, and by God was I going to take it regardless if it was considered a “good” ship or not. I was not in the mood to relive the American Heavy Battleship experience (even if that experience was ironically positive despite feeling like I was taking a cheese grater to my nuts every time I played Kan’tsas.). Take this first thoughts with a grain of salt, as I have not had any experience with the rest of the Italian line, nor do I intend to at this point seeing as my Italian tokens are going solely into credits (I’m grinding 2 lines at once; I need to stop doing that). So without further ado... let’s get into it.

The Guns

3x4 381 mm main battery armament. Reminds me a lot of the Alsace in most respects, including how finicky the accuracy can be. Granted if you take Deadeye this can be mitigated to an extent, however once you’re within spotting range this accuracy buff disappears and the trolling begins. Don’t get me wrong, you can still have good Salvos, but at those ranges it can be wildly inconsistent, where your shells either slam the target, or land all around it completely. AP is AP; velocity behind the guns makes it difficult to citadel lightly armored ships at times (and that’s IF you hit the bloody thing), but that same velocity does make it easier to lead targets with. The caliber of the gun means you won’t be overmatching Heavy Cruisers with AP so you better use SAP right? Well... yes and no. SAP in general has been a mixed bag. In some cases I have absolutely SLAMMED a ship for 18-20k alpha damage with SAP while they were angled bow in to me (see a poor Alaska that was demolished in ranked). However, in other cases I have shot SAP at a broadside ship only to get torpedo belt shatters and ricochets (and yes I aimed for the superstructure). To say the ammo type is finicky is an understatement, and I agree with a lot of people that it could be reworked. I mean... it does only 50 more damage a shell than AP against DDs, so there really isn’t a point in swapping over if you have AP loaded.

The secondary batteries get a LOT of hits (and this is when I don’t build for secondaries), like more than my secondary built German or American BBs. However, that hit ratio comes at the cost at being nothing more than a fire starter, which again reminds me of the French BB line. 

AA battery is VERY strong, but suffers the same fate as the Italian cruiser AA: very short range. So while you tear planes apart if they loiter around you, they’ll always get one strike off. Now if you use your smoke gimmick, that’s where things get fun against aircraft.

Gun rating: 6/10

Sitting just below average as I feel I have enough moments where I can smash ships with these guns, but I struggle in other moments to do quality damage. I find AP and SAP to be inconsistent, and the secondaries to be okay at starting fires but anemic anywhere else. AA is powerful bit too short range to be relied upon.

The Armor

The Lepanto is relatively well armored. If angled, she can take some punishment and keep trucking, especially if ships hit her belt armor. However, that’s where things sort of end. Her bow can be overmatched (found that out the rough way, thanks Georgia), and her citadel is just high enough to be hit through said bow. While not sitting as high as British or Soviet BBs, the citadel if broadside will still get hit if an enemy’s aim isn’t severely lacking. Like any BB, the ship will burn if she’s focused and her superstructure is prone to being chunked. More or less you are relying on the enemy to not know where to aim, which at the moment is consistent enough to get you by, but as players become more aware of Lepanto’s weaknesses this reliance will be ineffective at best. Her torpedo belt is strong, which coupled with her maneuverability gives her a good chance to stay alive against DDs if she makes a mistake.

Armor Rating: 5/10

She’s not a floating citadel so you can brawl with her easier than say a British BB, but you’re not as tanky as you would initially think, especially when people realize how overmatchable your bow armor is. Her torpedo belt is a positive and can protect you against torpedos better than most ships in her tier. Again, below average but not low enough where I felt I was always dying. 

The Maneuverability and Concealment

This is what surprised me personally. Lepanto is a moderately fast battleship (30+ Knts) with a very good turning circle. I have made some pretty spectacular torpedo beats in this ship thanks to her maneuverability. She seems to hold her speed well enough in a turn, and her acceleration doesn’t seem too bad either. The only thing that rubs me wrong is how poor her concealment is comparatively to Roma for example. If she had better concealment I think she would overall be a much more comfortable ship for everyone to play.

Maneuverability and Concealment Rating: 9/10

I may be a bit biased as I love mobility when it comes to ships, but I found Lepanto to be a joy to sail and maneuver. I felt in control and could quickly adapt to the unfolding situation when needed.

Overall Rating: 6.66/10

In my opinion, Lepanto is an average Battleship tier for tier. I can make her work and make her work well, and I have fun doing it. While I can do better in other battleships (Iowa/Missouri, Georgia, Jean Bart to name a few), I feel the more I learn how to properly use Lepanto’s guns, the more I will come to enjoy her. I have yet to feel frustrated with how she plays like I did Lion or Pre-Buff Izumo (I want to repurchase that ship, I haven’t played her since 2016).

That being said, I will not say she’s without problems. Her citadel can be a glaring weakness if not played conservatively and that overmatchable bow armor can be abused if people are cognizant if it. Her guns can feel anemic at times and her secondaries are more or less a fireworks show, while her AA is strong but short ranged. If I were to make a change to the ship and the Italian line as a whole, I would do one of three things.

1. I would decrease the concealment to at least 12 km. I like the idea of Italian BBs being this Roving Ninja using its smoke to reposition itself to catch unaware ships with their under-caliber but high velocity guns. 

2. Buff SAP to do more damage to DDs. Right now there is little reason to use SAP against DDs at all. I’m not advocating for SAP to delete DDs, but with how accurate Italian BBs are I’m fairly certain a buff to their damage wouldn’t hurt too much considering they are so inconsistent with hitting ships.

3. Increase the sigma. This is by far the easiest change to make and one that will allow players to not feel frustrated if they have one inaccurate salvo too many.

So, those are my thoughts on Lepanto and to a lesser degree Italian BBs. I’m enjoying them more than the American BB line split, but I do think there is room for improvement. What do you think? Am I crazy for finding Lepanto enjoyable? Am I a whale who should find a better hobby? Leave a comment, keep it civil, and fair seas fellow captains!

 

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From what I heard since most of the secondaries are only 90 mill.they will just shatter on mostly everything you hit . The French have 100 mill. Which can pen targets . Secondaries on the Italian are more of a fireworks display of pretty lights. The potential was there but the nerf hammer dropped right before release.

I'll play my GC and my Roma. I'll add the line to my collection with T10 supposedly being a beast . We shall see.

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3 hours ago, Usedcarjock said:

I was blursed enough to get the opportunity to spend 1500 dubs for a Tier IX BB, and by God was I going to take it regardless if it was considered a “good” ship or not. I was not in the mood to relive the American Heavy Battleship experience (even if that experience was ironically positive despite feeling like I was taking a cheese grater to my nuts every time I played Kan’tsas.). Take this first thoughts with a grain of salt, as I have not had any experience with the rest of the Italian line, nor do I intend to at this point seeing as my Italian tokens are going solely into credits (I’m grinding 2 lines at once; I need to stop doing that). So without further ado... let’s get into it.

The Guns

3x4 381 mm main battery armament. Reminds me a lot of the Alsace in most respects, including how finicky the accuracy can be. Granted if you take Deadeye this can be mitigated to an extent, however once you’re within spotting range this accuracy buff disappears and the trolling begins. Don’t get me wrong, you can still have good Salvos, but at those ranges it can be wildly inconsistent, where your shells either slam the target, or land all around it completely. AP is AP; velocity behind the guns makes it difficult to citadel lightly armored ships at times (and that’s IF you hit the bloody thing), but that same velocity does make it easier to lead targets with. The caliber of the gun means you won’t be overmatching Heavy Cruisers with AP so you better use SAP right? Well... yes and no. SAP in general has been a mixed bag. In some cases I have absolutely SLAMMED a ship for 18-20k alpha damage with SAP while they were angled bow in to me (see a poor Alaska that was demolished in ranked). However, in other cases I have shot SAP at a broadside ship only to get torpedo belt shatters and ricochets (and yes I aimed for the superstructure). To say the ammo type is finicky is an understatement, and I agree with a lot of people that it could be reworked. I mean... it does only 50 more damage a shell than AP against DDs, so there really isn’t a point in swapping over if you have AP loaded.

The secondary batteries get a LOT of hits (and this is when I don’t build for secondaries), like more than my secondary built German or American BBs. However, that hit ratio comes at the cost at being nothing more than a fire starter, which again reminds me of the French BB line. 

AA battery is VERY strong, but suffers the same fate as the Italian cruiser AA: very short range. So while you tear planes apart if they loiter around you, they’ll always get one strike off. Now if you use your smoke gimmick, that’s where things get fun against aircraft.

Gun rating: 6/10

Sitting just below average as I feel I have enough moments where I can smash ships with these guns, but I struggle in other moments to do quality damage. I find AP and SAP to be inconsistent, and the secondaries to be okay at starting fires but anemic anywhere else. AA is powerful bit too short range to be relied upon.

The Armor

The Lepanto is relatively well armored. If angled, she can take some punishment and keep trucking, especially if ships hit her belt armor. However, that’s where things sort of end. Her bow can be overmatched (found that out the rough way, thanks Georgia), and her citadel is just high enough to be hit through said bow. While not sitting as high as British or Soviet BBs, the citadel if broadside will still get hit if an enemy’s aim isn’t severely lacking. Like any BB, the ship will burn if she’s focused and her superstructure is prone to being chunked. More or less you are relying on the enemy to not know where to aim, which at the moment is consistent enough to get you by, but as players become more aware of Lepanto’s weaknesses this reliance will be ineffective at best. Her torpedo belt is strong, which coupled with her maneuverability gives her a good chance to stay alive against DDs if she makes a mistake.

Armor Rating: 5/10

She’s not a floating citadel so you can brawl with her easier than say a British BB, but you’re not as tanky as you would initially think, especially when people realize how overmatchable your bow armor is. Her torpedo belt is a positive and can protect you against torpedos better than most ships in her tier. Again, below average but not low enough where I felt I was always dying. 

The Maneuverability and Concealment

This is what surprised me personally. Lepanto is a moderately fast battleship (30+ Knts) with a very good turning circle. I have made some pretty spectacular torpedo beats in this ship thanks to her maneuverability. She seems to hold her speed well enough in a turn, and her acceleration doesn’t seem too bad either. The only thing that rubs me wrong is how poor her concealment is comparatively to Roma for example. If she had better concealment I think she would overall be a much more comfortable ship for everyone to play.

Maneuverability and Concealment Rating: 9/10

I may be a bit biased as I love mobility when it comes to ships, but I found Lepanto to be a joy to sail and maneuver. I felt in control and could quickly adapt to the unfolding situation when needed.

Overall Rating: 6.66/10

In my opinion, Lepanto is an average Battleship tier for tier. I can make her work and make her work well, and I have fun doing it. While I can do better in other battleships (Iowa/Missouri, Georgia, Jean Bart to name a few), I feel the more I learn how to properly use Lepanto’s guns, the more I will come to enjoy her. I have yet to feel frustrated with how she plays like I did Lion or Pre-Buff Izumo (I want to repurchase that ship, I haven’t played her since 2016).

That being said, I will not say she’s without problems. Her citadel can be a glaring weakness if not played conservatively and that overmatchable bow armor can be abused if people are cognizant if it. Her guns can feel anemic at times and her secondaries are more or less a fireworks show, while her AA is strong but short ranged. If I were to make a change to the ship and the Italian line as a whole, I would do one of three things.

1. I would decrease the concealment to at least 12 km. I like the idea of Italian BBs being this Roving Ninja using its smoke to reposition itself to catch unaware ships with their under-caliber but high velocity guns. 

2. Buff SAP to do more damage to DDs. Right now there is little reason to use SAP against DDs at all. I’m not advocating for SAP to delete DDs, but with how accurate Italian BBs are I’m fairly certain a buff to their damage wouldn’t hurt too much considering they are so inconsistent with hitting ships.

3. Increase the sigma. This is by far the easiest change to make and one that will allow players to not feel frustrated if they have one inaccurate salvo too many.

So, those are my thoughts on Lepanto and to a lesser degree Italian BBs. I’m enjoying them more than the American BB line split, but I do think there is room for improvement. What do you think? Am I crazy for finding Lepanto enjoyable? Am I a whale who should find a better hobby? Leave a comment, keep it civil, and fair seas fellow captains!

 

No shame in spending money were you find value.

Edited by jags_domain

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After playing a few games in Lepanto, I really feel that managing ammo selection is going to be critical to success in this line.  I've seen it said several times that you should basically only use SAP and just aim for upper belt/superstructure on BBs.  Problem is, the dispersion isn't necessarily going to place those shells where you aim them.  I've found I get a ton of shatters shooting SAP at BBs.  It ruins cruisers, but against BBs I'm not sure SAP is optimal.  In my opinion I would much rather shoot AP at a BB and get at least pen or overpen damage as opposed to a SAP shatter for zero damage.  I've found that mixing in a healthy amount of AP can really help the damage output.  That said, if you don't have Sansonetti, running Expert Loader (whatever its called now) is still going to be painful; it takes the switch down to 18.5 base, with Sansonetti it gets down to around 9 seconds.  Still long, but workable if you can anticipate enemy maneuvers well.

The 90mm secondaries only pen 15mm of armor, which is not even enough to damage DDs.  They will start the occasional fire, but the 152s do the bulk of the work and they fire very slowly.  Her AA looks decent on paper, but the extremely short range means that planes are basically already dropping by the time they hit your AA.  Your long range bubble is only 1km deep as well, so planes are in and out of your flak almost instantly.

I do have to disagree with you about Lepanto's maneuverability - I think she feels almost Russian.  She is a pretty long ship, and while the rudder shift and turning radius are fairly average it feels very sluggish to me.  Acceleration from a stop feels average to slow IMO.  I've had no problems with the armor on Lepanto.  Angled well you can bounce everything (maybe not Shiki?) without worry.  Give up your side and you can eat massive damage, same as most ships.

The full speed smoke is an interesting gimmick but not one I personally find terribly useful since your smoke firing penalty is over 15km (max conceal on Lepanto is 13.4 - firing in smoke ADDS 2km to your detectability).  If you've fired within the past 20 seconds you can't go dark even in smoke.  If can be useful occasionally to make a turn out if you need to disengage, but you have to be very aware of enemy locations and when you last fired your guns.  TBH I'd rather give up the smoke for improved gunnery, as it would make these ships more comfortable to use.

Overall I think it's a decent ship; not great, but very useable.  I would love to see the sigma increased by 0.1 and see how it feels, but 12 rifles does make up for a lot of problems.  Oddly enough Pommern also has 12x380 but the gunnery is much more consistent and comfortable to use than Lepanto.  My opinion on Lepanto may change as I play her more, but these are my impressions through the first 10 or so games. YMMV.

Edited by Uncle_Lou

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27 minutes ago, Uncle_Lou said:

After playing a few games in Lepanto, I really feel that managing ammo selection is going to be critical to success in this line.  I've seen it said several times that you should basically only use SAP and just aim for upper belt/superstructure on BBs.  Problem is, the dispersion isn't necessarily going to place those shells where you aim them.  I've found I get a ton of shatters shooting SAP at BBs.  It ruins cruisers, but against BBs I'm not sure SAP is optimal.  In my opinion I would much rather shoot AP at a BB and get at least pen or overpen damage as opposed to a SAP shatter for zero damage.  I've found that mixing in a healthy amount of AP can really help the damage output.  That said, if you don't have Sansonetti, running Expert Loader (whatever its called now) is still going to be painful; it takes the switch down to 18.5 base, with Sansonetti it gets down to around 9 seconds.  Still long, but workable if you can anticipate enemy maneuvers well.

 

Agree. I have Sansonetti on my Italian cruisers so I brought over my GC captain to pilot Lepanto. 18.5 swap sucks haha.

30 minutes ago, Uncle_Lou said:

I do have to disagree with you about Lepanto's maneuverability - I think she feels almost Russian.  She is a pretty long ship, and while the rudder shift and turning radius are fairly average it feels very sluggish to me.  Acceleration from a stop feels average to slow IMO.  I've had no problems with the armor on Lepanto.  Angled well you can bounce everything (maybe not Shiki?) without worry.  Give up your side and you can eat massive damage, same as most ships.

Eh I don’t know. As I said the maneuverability and acceleration seem decent to great. As for angling, yes it’s tanky so long as someone doesn’t shoot your nose with 457+, which unfortunately is a lot of ships at Tier IX and above.

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5 minutes ago, Usedcarjock said:

Eh I don’t know. As I said the maneuverability and acceleration seem decent to great. As for angling, yes it’s tanky so long as someone doesn’t shoot your nose with 457+, which unfortunately is a lot of ships at Tier IX and above.

The 16.7 rudder shift with the top hull isn't terrible, but the 910m turning circle is pretty large IMO.  I'd be curious to see the results of one of LWM's turn rate comparisons.  Maybe I've just been lucky so far as I've not really had any issues with overmatch against the bow.  I need to look at the armor profile in port again, I thought the Italian BBs all had pretty decent ice-breaker bows but I can't recall now what the plating is.

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1 hour ago, Usedcarjock said:

Agree. I have Sansonetti on my Italian cruisers so I brought over my GC captain to pilot Lepanto.

But with the rebork, you can use that cruiser specced Sansonetti on a premium BB too. Even give him different skills than your GC captain.

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6 hours ago, Usedcarjock said:

I have made some pretty spectacular torpedo beats in this ship thanks to her maneuverability.

Speaking of which, I had a bot Lepanto in co-op turn to avoid showing broadside as if it were a sports car. It was obscene. I know that's just bots doing their usual physics hacks, but OH MY FREAKING GOD did that thing ever rotate fast.

I'm sort of looking forward to the day these things are in open release so I can try her out in the PTS (I know I won't be up to her in the grind by then, LOL) and see if that performance can be duplicated by a human. Right now, though, I am up to the Cavour and really enjoying her. 

2 hours ago, Uncle_Lou said:

I would love to see the sigma increased by 0.1 and see how it feels

The Kansas got a couple of sigma buffs which actually make her quite comfortable to play (relative to her state at pre-release), and I would recommend that you give her a spin (even if only in the training room) and see how things have changed.

In that context, I imagine that the Lepanto will be given buffs as and if necessity demands it.

7 hours ago, Usedcarjock said:

(I want to repurchase that ship, I haven’t played her since 2016)

You really should. I'm vaguely regretting not leaving a 19 pointer in mine. I know she was cursed and vilified eternally (and I am aware of the reasons why and what's changed since), but I got an absolutely great ship that I really loved to play.

2 hours ago, Uncle_Lou said:

I do have to disagree with you about Lepanto's maneuverability - I think she feels almost Russian.

Didn't the Russians draw a LOT on Italian design work for some of their BB projects?

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5 hours ago, Versili said:

From what I heard since most of the secondaries are only 90 mill.they will just shatter on mostly everything you hit . The French have 100 mill. Which can pen targets . Secondaries on the Italian are more of a fireworks display of pretty lights. The potential was there but the nerf hammer dropped right before release.

I'll play my GC and my Roma. I'll add the line to my collection with T10 supposedly being a beast . We shall see.

The ITA 90mm guns have a terrible 15mm HE Pen.  They will not HE Pen the 16mm hulls of a Tier VI Destroyer, nevermind the 19mm hull armor of Tier VIII+ DDs and 19mm superstructure of another Battleship.

 

The FR 100mm guns are not much better.  17mm HE Pen only.  For Tier IX Alsace, she cannot even HE Pen the hulls of a High Tier DD nor High Tier BB Superstructure as they are all 19mm.  Back in the day in the old system, I took IFHE to improve the Pen, it would be able to Pen those targets in question.  But after the IFHE / Armor update, IFHE severely gut Fire Chances.  Not just for the secondaries, but for main battery as well.

 

I do not like relying on RNG + Fire Setting with low Fire Chance secondaries to deal the bulk of damage, because Lady Luck is a very fickle mistress and will let you down at the worst times.

7 hours ago, Usedcarjock said:

The Armor

The Lepanto is relatively well armored. If angled, she can take some punishment and keep trucking, especially if ships hit her belt armor. However, that’s where things sort of end. Her bow can be overmatched (found that out the rough way, thanks Georgia), and her citadel is just high enough to be hit through said bow.

This is wholly not possible getting Citadeled right through the bow by a 457mm armed Georgia.  Georgia cannot Overmatch the 32mm extremities of High Tier BBs, minus super rare cases (Champagne, Slava).

 

I have Lepanto, here is her armor profile for the forward part of the ship.

shot-21-02-22-12-34-23-0344.jpg

 

To Overmatch 32mm armor with AP, you need 458mm+ AP shells.  Georgia, Thunderer, Ohio, Kremlin cannot Overmatch 32mm armor.  460mm armed Musashi, Yamato, and 510mm armed Shikashima can.

 

I'm all for ranting about these BBs, but I want the information, complaints to be correct.  Maybe the Georgia landed a bunch of AP Pens to your bow on Lepanto's superstructure?  That will hurt a lot, but that is still not the same as Overmatching your bow and Citadeling you.

 

As far as exterior armor goes, some of the ITA BBs have pretty good Deck Armor, so they're actually pretty decent in mitigating some of the raw HE shell damage because a bunch will non-pen.  IX Lepanto has 55mm deck armor.  VIII Vittorio Veneto has 45mm, same as Roma.  X Cristoforo Colombo has 50mm deck armor.  But they got Cits to actually protect, so you can't get sloppy.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The ITA 90mm guns have a terrible 15mm HE Pen.  They will not HE Pen the 16mm hulls of a Tier VI Destroyer, nevermind the 19mm hull armor of Tier VIII+ DDs and 19mm superstructure of another Battleship.

 

The FR 100mm guns are not much better.  17mm HE Pen only.  For Tier IX Alsace, she cannot even HE Pen the hulls of a High Tier DD nor High Tier BB Superstructure as they are all 19mm.  Back in the day in the old system, I took IFHE to improve the Pen, it would be able to Pen those targets in question.  But after the IFHE / Armor update, IFHE severely gut Fire Chances.  Not just for the secondaries, but for main battery as well.

 

I do not like relying on RNG + Fire Setting with low Fire Chance secondaries to deal the bulk of damage, because Lady Luck is a very fickle mistress and will let you down at the worst times.

This is wholly not possible getting Citadeled right through the bow by a 457mm armed Georgia.  Georgia cannot Overmatch the 32mm extremities of High Tier BBs, minus super rare cases (Champagne, Slava).

 

I have Lepanto, here is her armor profile for the forward part of the ship.

shot-21-02-22-12-34-23-0344.jpg

 

To Overmatch 32mm armor with AP, you need 458mm+ AP shells.  Georgia, Thunderer, Ohio, Kremlin cannot Overmatch 32mm armor.  460mm armed Musashi, Yamato, and 510mm armed Shikashima can.

 

I'm all for ranting about these BBs, but I want the information, complaints to be correct.  Maybe the Georgia landed a bunch of AP Pens to your bow on Lepanto's superstructure?  That will hurt a lot, but that is still not the same as Overmatching your bow and Citadeling you.

 

As far as exterior armor goes, some of the ITA BBs have pretty good Deck Armor, so they're actually pretty decent in mitigating some of the raw HE shell damage because a bunch will non-pen.  IX Lepanto has 55mm deck armor.  VIII Vittorio Veneto has 45mm, same as Roma.  X Cristoforo Colombo has 50mm deck armor.  But they got Cits to actually protect, so you can't get sloppy.

Uh... then explain how a Georgia did that when I was completely bow on. It was a citadel. Not a penetrating hit. I couldn’t repair the damage at all. Also I don’t get where you think I was ranting...?

Edited by Usedcarjock
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14 minutes ago, Usedcarjock said:

Uh... then explain how a Georgia did that when I was completely bow on. It was a citadel. Not a penetrating hit. I couldn’t repair the damage at all.

On occasion you can get cits from bouncing shells down barbettes into the magazines. I get them occasionally on Iowas especially. It's not something to rely on.

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23 minutes ago, Usedcarjock said:

Uh... then explain how a Georgia did that when I was completely bow on. It was a citadel. Not a penetrating hit. I couldn’t repair the damage at all. Also I don’t get where you think I was ranting...?

Unless you got a replay for me to see and a timestamp to get to the event taking place, I'd say it didn't happen.

 

Your original post is full of complaints about the ship.  That's not exactly a glowing review, is it?  Your own take of 6.6 / 10 isn't exactly praise.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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9 hours ago, Usedcarjock said:

I was blursed enough to get the opportunity to spend 1500 dubs for a Tier IX BB, and by God was I going to take it regardless if it was considered a “good” ship or not. I was not in the mood to relive the American Heavy Battleship experience (even if that experience was ironically positive despite feeling like I was taking a cheese grater to my nuts every time I played Kan’tsas.). Take this first thoughts with a grain of salt, as I have not had any experience with the rest of the Italian line, nor do I intend to at this point seeing as my Italian tokens are going solely into credits (I’m grinding 2 lines at once; I need to stop doing that). So without further ado... let’s get into it.

The Guns

3x4 381 mm main battery armament. Reminds me a lot of the Alsace in most respects, including how finicky the accuracy can be. Granted if you take Deadeye this can be mitigated to an extent, however once you’re within spotting range this accuracy buff disappears and the trolling begins. Don’t get me wrong, you can still have good Salvos, but at those ranges it can be wildly inconsistent, where your shells either slam the target, or land all around it completely. AP is AP; velocity behind the guns makes it difficult to citadel lightly armored ships at times (and that’s IF you hit the bloody thing), but that same velocity does make it easier to lead targets with. The caliber of the gun means you won’t be overmatching Heavy Cruisers with AP so you better use SAP right? Well... yes and no. SAP in general has been a mixed bag. In some cases I have absolutely SLAMMED a ship for 18-20k alpha damage with SAP while they were angled bow in to me (see a poor Alaska that was demolished in ranked). However, in other cases I have shot SAP at a broadside ship only to get torpedo belt shatters and ricochets (and yes I aimed for the superstructure). To say the ammo type is finicky is an understatement, and I agree with a lot of people that it could be reworked. I mean... it does only 50 more damage a shell than AP against DDs, so there really isn’t a point in swapping over if you have AP loaded.

The secondary batteries get a LOT of hits (and this is when I don’t build for secondaries), like more than my secondary built German or American BBs. However, that hit ratio comes at the cost at being nothing more than a fire starter, which again reminds me of the French BB line. 

AA battery is VERY strong, but suffers the same fate as the Italian cruiser AA: very short range. So while you tear planes apart if they loiter around you, they’ll always get one strike off. Now if you use your smoke gimmick, that’s where things get fun against aircraft.

Gun rating: 6/10

Sitting just below average as I feel I have enough moments where I can smash ships with these guns, but I struggle in other moments to do quality damage. I find AP and SAP to be inconsistent, and the secondaries to be okay at starting fires but anemic anywhere else. AA is powerful bit too short range to be relied upon.

The Armor

The Lepanto is relatively well armored. If angled, she can take some punishment and keep trucking, especially if ships hit her belt armor. However, that’s where things sort of end. Her bow can be overmatched (found that out the rough way, thanks Georgia), and her citadel is just high enough to be hit through said bow. While not sitting as high as British or Soviet BBs, the citadel if broadside will still get hit if an enemy’s aim isn’t severely lacking. Like any BB, the ship will burn if she’s focused and her superstructure is prone to being chunked. More or less you are relying on the enemy to not know where to aim, which at the moment is consistent enough to get you by, but as players become more aware of Lepanto’s weaknesses this reliance will be ineffective at best. Her torpedo belt is strong, which coupled with her maneuverability gives her a good chance to stay alive against DDs if she makes a mistake.

Armor Rating: 5/10

She’s not a floating citadel so you can brawl with her easier than say a British BB, but you’re not as tanky as you would initially think, especially when people realize how overmatchable your bow armor is. Her torpedo belt is a positive and can protect you against torpedos better than most ships in her tier. Again, below average but not low enough where I felt I was always dying. 

The Maneuverability and Concealment

This is what surprised me personally. Lepanto is a moderately fast battleship (30+ Knts) with a very good turning circle. I have made some pretty spectacular torpedo beats in this ship thanks to her maneuverability. She seems to hold her speed well enough in a turn, and her acceleration doesn’t seem too bad either. The only thing that rubs me wrong is how poor her concealment is comparatively to Roma for example. If she had better concealment I think she would overall be a much more comfortable ship for everyone to play.

Maneuverability and Concealment Rating: 9/10

I may be a bit biased as I love mobility when it comes to ships, but I found Lepanto to be a joy to sail and maneuver. I felt in control and could quickly adapt to the unfolding situation when needed.

Overall Rating: 6.66/10

In my opinion, Lepanto is an average Battleship tier for tier. I can make her work and make her work well, and I have fun doing it. While I can do better in other battleships (Iowa/Missouri, Georgia, Jean Bart to name a few), I feel the more I learn how to properly use Lepanto’s guns, the more I will come to enjoy her. I have yet to feel frustrated with how she plays like I did Lion or Pre-Buff Izumo (I want to repurchase that ship, I haven’t played her since 2016).

That being said, I will not say she’s without problems. Her citadel can be a glaring weakness if not played conservatively and that overmatchable bow armor can be abused if people are cognizant if it. Her guns can feel anemic at times and her secondaries are more or less a fireworks show, while her AA is strong but short ranged. If I were to make a change to the ship and the Italian line as a whole, I would do one of three things.

1. I would decrease the concealment to at least 12 km. I like the idea of Italian BBs being this Roving Ninja using its smoke to reposition itself to catch unaware ships with their under-caliber but high velocity guns. 

2. Buff SAP to do more damage to DDs. Right now there is little reason to use SAP against DDs at all. I’m not advocating for SAP to delete DDs, but with how accurate Italian BBs are I’m fairly certain a buff to their damage wouldn’t hurt too much considering they are so inconsistent with hitting ships.

3. Increase the sigma. This is by far the easiest change to make and one that will allow players to not feel frustrated if they have one inaccurate salvo too many.

So, those are my thoughts on Lepanto and to a lesser degree Italian BBs. I’m enjoying them more than the American BB line split, but I do think there is room for improvement. What do you think? Am I crazy for finding Lepanto enjoyable? Am I a whale who should find a better hobby? Leave a comment, keep it civil, and fair seas fellow captains!

 

I was lucky to get the Lepanto in the third bundle - I was committed to buying 2 bundles as that was how many dubs I had.  She was in the third.  I didn't let it pass up.

I agree with almost everything you said.  I found the SAP to be weak compared to the RM Cruisers' SAP.   The last few battles I switched to AP.

The secondaries puzzle me as well.  Not as many hits as the KM BBs, but more than the USN Premium Line, but a lot less damage than either of them.  I will use them as fire starters. 

SAP against the DDs do need to be increased, otherwise they are a waste.  Why switch back and forth if the damage is the same, or better with AP?

I generally have less wild salvos than many seem to have, on Lepanto and on the Roma.  I did NOT get any of the lower tier RM BBs, so I cannot comment on them. 

I did have a few 1 million plus potential damage games in her already.  She seems to be able to tank a little, which is a plus since my ships are brawlers.

I would assume that 7 / 10 is what an average BB would be for you.  Since the tech tree T9s are much poorer compared to T9 premiums, I would probably rate the Lepanto a bit higher, maybe 7 / 10 (to your 6.66).

Thanks for your writeup.

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I think the SAP, outside the 10% cap against Destroyers, is fine.  The problem that undermines them is the accuracy of the ITA BB Line.  Lepanto, just like all these early release ITA BBs, has 1.6 Sigma.  In contrast, Roma in Tier VIII, that long has had a reputation for trollish accuracy, has 1.8 Sigma.  Italian BBs use the worst BB dispersion model in the game:  French / Old German BB Dispersion.

 

Couple that 1.6 Sigma + FR / Old German BB Dispersion, you're going to get trolled badly.

Add in that Lepanto has 37 seconds reload by default, with MBM3 reducing that to 32.56 seconds, the time between your own trollish salvos can further undermine you.

 

I've said it elsewhere... WG was so scared of ITA Battleship SAP running wild that they literally threw everything they possibly could to keep them from doing so:  Bad accuracy, bad reload, mediocre gun ranges, even a damage cap against DDs with SAP, just like Battleship AP.

 

Italian Battleship gunnery literally fell off the Nerf tree and hit every Nerf branch on the way down.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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50 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Add in that Lepanto has 37 seconds reload by default, with MBM3 reducing that to 32.56 seconds, the time between your own trollish salvos can further undermine you.

 

Italian Battleship gunnery literally fell off the Nerf tree and hit every Nerf branch on the way down.

I believe with CQC, you can get that 32.56 down to just a touch over 30 seconds once you get ships into your detection range.

I did have a few games very early on where SAP just blasted everything in sight.  I do believe it depends on the match, the map and where you spawn.  Spawning on a flank with only one other ally on a map without a lot of open space means you are facing 2 ships max for a while and SAP alone will take a long time to kill off anything.  Switching over to AP helps.  Against DDs though, it doesn't matter since both are near equal. 

Overall, I like the ship a lot, although I always liked a lot of the RM ships (T7+ cruisers, Roma, etc.)  Actually thinking of getting the Emilio even.

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6 hours ago, kyesac said:

I believe with CQC, you can get that 32.56 down to just a touch over 30 seconds once you get ships into your detection range.

I did have a few games very early on where SAP just blasted everything in sight.  I do believe it depends on the match, the map and where you spawn.  Spawning on a flank with only one other ally on a map without a lot of open space means you are facing 2 ships max for a while and SAP alone will take a long time to kill off anything.  Switching over to AP helps.  Against DDs though, it doesn't matter since both are near equal. 

Overall, I like the ship a lot, although I always liked a lot of the RM ships (T7+ cruisers, Roma, etc.)  Actually thinking of getting the Emilio even.

Hmmm considering how often i get within 10km in Lepanto I should try CQC+AR...

Edited by admiral_noone

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11 hours ago, MnemonScarlet said:

On occasion you can get cits from bouncing shells down barbettes into the magazines. I get them occasionally on Iowas especially. It's not something to rely on.

Don't think I had ever seen this before, but a couple days ago in a ranked match I double citadelled an Iowa through the bow at around 16km using a Pommern.  Not sure who was more surprised, me or him.

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14 hours ago, admiral_noone said:

Hmmm considering how often i get within 10km in Lepanto I should try CQC+AR...

Since I am a COOP main, I took deadeye off every ship I had and replaced it with CQC.  You can get some really serious fast reloads on ships like Republique and a few others.

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I took it out for a spin today.

FDR came in, hit me for ~20k and two fires. Damage Con and repair

FDR came in hit me for ~20k and 2 fires, burnt for awhile.

FDR came in and hit me for ~20k and 2 floods, damage con and repair. 

FDR came in and hit me for ~20k and two floods. 

Flooded out and died.

Maneuvering made ZERO difference

AA made ZERO difference

Priority Sector made ZERO difference.

I shot down 7 planes total. 

There was literally NOTHING I could do but just die, go back to port, and play a different ship.

Edited by Litigo_1970

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I have mixed feelings. I actually think the Italian battleships have a lot of similarities to the cruisers. Maneuverable, fairly quick, great gun handling. I enjoy Lepanto, and I suspect Cristoforo Colombo will be fun as well, but they can be inconsistent, and they will probably be ships I take out for fun every now and again rather than the ones I have flagged and play every day.

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