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shinytrashcan

Minotaur in the era of deadeye

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OK, I am kinda frustrated.

I just recently got my Minotaur, and while this ship has its moment and is insane fun, I found it to be very frustrating. I know it has not armor and blows up when just frowned upon. But at tier 10 this is just ridiculous, I can't make it work.

To make matters worse, when I try to play safe and use my smokes I find that DDs nowadays are terrible at spotting. Example: A shima, a Gearing, and me are in open water and a half-HP Salem sails up to us. I smoke up to kill him before he gets in radar range, so far so good. But then I lose spotting: Both DDs have smoked up and start "farming" the ship. Even the Shima. I mean, the hell, you have a Mino next to you to do the killing and all you have to do is keep the guy spotted but you smoke up and farm with little shima DPM?

So, before I start to rant even more: How do I make this thing work in 2021 when everything can delete you from 25km away? Because I feel either useless, or I explode.

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I never play Mino out in the open. I try to find a place on the map that has some rocks or islands and I slip in and out of those and try to catch an enemy DD or wait till later in the game after some enemy DD's are dead and I find me a BB and smoke up and go to town on him. You have to be careful because the Mino is sort of an elongated ship and I see a lot of cruisers and BB's will fire right into the smoke to try and hit you. Your firing so fast that they can see your stream of shells coming out of the smoke so they have a decent idea of where you are sitting or which direction your moving. Also use your torpedo's and don't forget about them. They are great for pushing ships away from caps or firing into smoke in the hopes of hitting a DD sitting in there. 

It's a tough ship to play correctly but just keep trying and you'll eventually get a good strat down. Here is a game I lost in mine but look at the damage and what a Mino can do if your sneaky!

Mino.jpg

mino2.jpg

Edited by Lord_Argus
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There's a reason why the queue has less cruiser players in it consistently now -- the IFHE changes, additions of CV AP rockets, proliferation of 18 inch battleship guns and overmatch mechanics, captain skill improvements to battleship dispersion and a decided lack of any actual intelligent or meta-functional skills for cruisers on the new captain skills tree has lead to cruisers being not very much worth playing at the moment.

They were arguably the most difficult class to play and have a meaningful impact in prior to all these changes, and now (and I'm saying this as a cruiser main) there's not a great reason to play them anymore because they no longer really excel at anything any other class can do just as well.

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Minos have had their day. Their reign of terror in confined spaces among the game islands is past.

They are sunk on sight because they are so squishy.

You do not sit inside smoke and spam from inside it. What you do is circle back out of your screen and put the screen between you and your enemy. Preferably a mile or so.

ALL of your enemy rounds land in the smoke thinking you are in the middle of it like a noob while you sink them all.

Keep moving slow so you can hightail out of radar coverage against you which will CORRECT that enemy error as soon they reload.

Edited by xHeavy
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I love playing the RN CL line.  Sure it has its frustrations, as does any ship, but to me it has the best combination of mobility and utility.

For instance, other than the Black Swan and Weymouth, I spec all my RN CL ships and captains the same - cap control via AA, radar/catapult fighter, hydro and a hail of shells.

I do not take smoke because I prefer the active gameplay of radar/catapult fighter.

my captains are 100% AA with utility and faster firing skills.  My ships have the AA mods and usual damage mods plus rudder mods.

I don’t do great but I have fun which is my priority until subs are released.

it is discouraging firing a ton of shells and not doing much damage however but I can literally force ships to retreat from the cap - which is my function.

 

 

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I play the Neptune and if you are being deleted from 25 KM away t hen you are not playing it right.  They can work just fine - you need to know the concealment of the ship, watch the minimap, do not go forward without an escape plan (or an island), use smoke effectively, and keep your head on a swivel so you can see how if shooting at you. 

I have YET to be deleted from 25 KM in the Neptune that has WORSE concealment than the Mino.

The numbers are not stunning but it is very playable but you will get punished for being in the wrong place but it won't be from 25 Km away.  The Edinburg can actually work as well.

 

image.thumb.png.b964b13f32284d5962accb3423a87a7b.png

 

CAs_Dead_2 - Neptune.PNG

CAs_Dead.PNG

World of Warships - Neptune - 114759.PNG

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I don't have the tier 10 yet, I have the tier 8. But what I am seeing both light and heavy British cruisers have almost no armor or the armor that they do have does not help much at all. I have looked at my Janes fighting ships books and sites about them on the internet, the stats, armor thickness on the Heavy cruisers and to me, I know I am not an expert, but they seem extremely weak for some reason. Reading about naval battles from ww1 to ww2 and many, many cruisers from various nations stood up to large amount of shell hits and damage. Japanese heavy cruisers were very tough but my Myoko is as brittle as glass. Exeter which really was a light or medium cruiser withstood crushing 11 inch shell hits From Graf Spee. USS Houston is another. Even the Italian Heavy Cruisers Zara and Pola didn't sink until the next day after being torped, and mauled by 3 British BB's. 

I am just saying IMHO I think the game has some of the Cruisers set to be damaged fatally a lot faster than reality would have them be. But I understand it's a game of course. It's just a shame. 

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8 hours ago, shinytrashcan said:

OK, I am kinda frustrated.

I just recently got my Minotaur, and while this ship has its moment and is insane fun, I found it to be very frustrating. I know it has not armor and blows up when just frowned upon. But at tier 10 this is just ridiculous, I can't make it work.

To make matters worse, when I try to play safe and use my smokes I find that DDs nowadays are terrible at spotting. Example: A shima, a Gearing, and me are in open water and a half-HP Salem sails up to us. I smoke up to kill him before he gets in radar range, so far so good. But then I lose spotting: Both DDs have smoked up and start "farming" the ship. Even the Shima. I mean, the hell, you have a Mino next to you to do the killing and all you have to do is keep the guy spotted but you smoke up and farm with little shima DPM?

So, before I start to rant even more: How do I make this thing work in 2021 when everything can delete you from 25km away? Because I feel either useless, or I explode.

by Neptune you should have been aware of these facts.

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25 minutes ago, Drifter_X said:

by Neptune you should have been aware of these facts.

To be fair, I already accepted the dakka-or-die playstyle since Fiji and while frustrating to experience, just randomly exploding is par for the course in these ships.

Somehow though, at Tier 10, especially in pure T10 games, the amount of times that it happens was quite high for me after I got the ship. As was the amount of questionable DD play and teamplay in general. Granted, part of this might be the typical weekend effect and that I have been mostly playing DDs lately, but it still struck me as frustrating.

I'll give it a few days to see how this evolves, maybe I am in the wrong mindset right now.

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Its playing cruisers in General, the rework is incentivizing poor tactic, that are leaving Cruisers in a bad spot. Dead Eye just need to go away. It was a thought but the unintended consequences are making game play poor.  

 

Edited by vikingno2
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Your subject says Deadeye, but your post is about DD"s not spotting a Salem? What's the problem son?

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5 minutes ago, Toxygene said:

Your subject says Deadeye, but your post is about DD"s not spotting a Salem? What's the problem son?

Because Dead makes the ships that spot, DDs and CVs, even more import that they do spot; you now will have 4-5 Dead Eye dummies sitting back and waiting to get some massive strike and cruiser are the prime target now. They could care less about cap or anything else. He is a cruisers player currently with how the game is going they are getting the short end.  But its worse than that the game play is just getting worse. WG inadvertently promoted aspects of the game that make it boring a frustrating.  

 

You understand now pops?

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5 minutes ago, vikingno2 said:

Because Dead makes the ships that spot, DDs and CVs, even more import that they do spot; you now will have 4-5 Dead Eye dummies sitting back and waiting to get some massive strike and cruiser are the prime target now. They could care less about cap or anything else. He is a cruisers player currently with how the game is going they are getting the short end.  But its worse than that the game play is just getting worse. WG inadvertently promoted aspects of the game that make it boring a frustrating.   

So because deadeye makes BB's sit back and shoot at CL's the DD"s and CV"s no longer spot? No it makes no sense to me at all. Mino's are one of the hardest ships to play and most often they are sunk quickly except when a really good player is in it. Then they can be super tough to deal with. It's more the player than deadeye that determines the outcome - especially in Mino's.

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9 hours ago, shinytrashcan said:

I smoke up to kill him before he gets in radar range, so far so good. But then I lose spotting: Both DDs have smoked up and start "farming" the ship. Even the Shima.

That's just an indication that you got put on the same team as a couple of useless windowlickers.

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8 minutes ago, Toxygene said:

So because deadeye makes BB's sit back and shoot at CL's the DD"s and CV"s no longer spot? No it makes no sense to me at all. Mino's are one of the hardest ships to play and most often they are sunk quickly except when a really good player is in it. Then they can be super tough to deal with. It's more the player than deadeye that determines the outcome - especially in Mino's.

You asked why he complained about the DD not spotting, I explained it. They blinded themselves to farm so he cant see anything so he gets out of smoke and/or cover and boom Dead Eye dead he is (In a Yoda accent). No one is saying a Mino is not challenging to play, not mentioned anywhere in any post. Cruiser get screwed if your DDs don't spot because of Dead Eye and/or the effect of Dead Eye. Your tradition support is also 15km behind you now as well. The silver lining is now torp boats are coming back into fashion. You kidding yourself if you don't think cruisers are in a bad spot now, unless you are very long range fire breather or a Russian cruiser that begins with "P"  

Edited by vikingno2

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9 hours ago, shinytrashcan said:

OK, I am kinda frustrated.

I just recently got my Minotaur, and while this ship has its moment and is insane fun, I found it to be very frustrating. I know it has not armor and blows up when just frowned upon. But at tier 10 this is just ridiculous, I can't make it work.

To make matters worse, when I try to play safe and use my smokes I find that DDs nowadays are terrible at spotting. Example: A shima, a Gearing, and me are in open water and a half-HP Salem sails up to us. I smoke up to kill him before he gets in radar range, so far so good. But then I lose spotting: Both DDs have smoked up and start "farming" the ship. Even the Shima. I mean, the hell, you have a Mino next to you to do the killing and all you have to do is keep the guy spotted but you smoke up and farm with little shima DPM?

So, before I start to rant even more: How do I make this thing work in 2021 when everything can delete you from 25km away? Because I feel either useless, or I explode.

From what I can see, the Mino's big weakness (compared to other CL's) is her big, easy to spot Citadel; you show broadside, you're probably going to get deleted by anything other than DD caliber guns, beyond that she's in the same boat as other CL's at her tier, namely they're thinly armored and relatively fragile (e.g. Worcester), in her favor the Mino has smoke but she still needs to utilize COVER and CONCEALMENT just like any other CL, I don't think BB's with DeadEye change any of that other than you might get punished for being out of position a bit quicker than before. 

That being said her high rate of fire and excellent torps make her an absolute monster against DD's and other CL's and a threat to CA's and BB's. Throw in her excellent AA and IMHO she's an awesome DD support ship/ DD killer.

Sounds to me like you just got stuck with some DD's that didn't want to work as a team with you, which is unfortunate since it also sounds like you're one of those rare CL captains that actually try and support your DD's.

You might find this video on the Minotaur by Potato Quality helpful:

 Minotaur: The Most Unique Cruiser - YouTube

Happy Sailing! 

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