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tm63au

Just Got Conte Di Cavour And I'm confused

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OK been waiting to get this ship and indeed for the Italian line to come out for some time.

There seems to be something wrong with the ship.

shot-21_02.22_14_16.26-0228.thumb.jpg.b1be1ed7f84b676976a7dd97473ccd84.jpg

This is her in her B hull configuration, on the face of it fine all good.

shot-21_02.22_14_16.39-0708.thumb.jpg.8a32922974b986dcb9ea27d6eb86499d.jpg    

This is GC in her final hull configuration all good as well.

So where is Cavours 1933 - 1937  reconstruction hull ?

 

 Image result for conti da carver battleships

I thought tech tree ships were given there full upgrades as part of the line ?

Edited by tm63au

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In early access you have to click on the upgrades, they are free but the stock equipment is mounted until you mount the researchable ones

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The 1930s rebuilds of these ships were extensive, involving significant changes to the hull form itself, drastically upgrading their machinery, boring out the guns to increase their caliber, and completely removing the amidships turret, among  other things. The two ships that were produced at the end of the process were essentially completely different ships. Nothing this extensive is present in any other ship in the game. Having such a change occur wouldn’t make sense from a gameplay perspective, and you can see it by comparing Conte Di Cavour to her younger sister.

WG screwed up when they placed GC at tier V, placing what was essentially a mid-to-late 30s fast battleship (albeit with smallish guns a.la Dunkerque), in a tier populated mostly by pre-WWI dreadnoughts with much more limited refits. That early in the game’s development, I get the impression that some developer got hung up on the date she was first commissioned and didn’t take into account her extensive rebuild when selecting a tier. WG showed back in 2019 that GC was just fine at tier VI, which is honestly where the rebuilt Conte Di Cavours belong.

I guarantee that if the ship wasn’t already in the game, we’d be seeing a rebuilt version of the class (likely GC since only two ships survived to get the rebuilds) at tier VI as the new premium to accompany the line. As is stands, I wouldn’t be surprised if we eventually see a Soviet GC at tier VI as Novorossiysk. After all, WG did spend resources creating the asset, so I imagine they will eventually put it to use.

Edited by Nevermore135
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7 minutes ago, ditka_Fatdog said:

In early access you have to click on the upgrades, they are free but the stock equipment is mounted until you mount the researchable ones

The picture is the ungraded hull, the cavour should look like GC in her final form. 

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47 minutes ago, tm63au said:

So where is Cavours 1933 - 1937  reconstruction hull ?

It's GC. That refit was massive, one of the largest every done AFAIK, essentially new ships came out of it. That's far more than the usual upgrade path in game. Cavor is the pre-refit, GC is the post-refit

47 minutes ago, tm63au said:

 

I thought tech tree ships were given there full upgrades as part of the line ?

Not necessarily. USN BBs for example, several of them are not in their final post Pearl Harbor refit form, that's taken up by premiums. While some modernizations are on the upgrade path if it's too big a change to keep in one ship WG will split it off as a another ship. 

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1 hour ago, tm63au said:

The picture is the ungraded hull, the cavour should look like GC in her final form. 

And why exactly is that?  The GC in game is OP for tier 5, and should be a tier 6 premium BB.

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1 hour ago, tm63au said:

I thought tech tree ships were given there full upgrades as part of the line ?

This is quite untrue.  Most USN BBs that survived Pearl Harbor and were repaired, reappeared in states that were not represented in game, with the possible exception of the Texas.   Mid tier tech tree USN BBs' final upgraded state that's generally representative of their tier.  For example, if the tier 6 USN BBs had received full post Pearl Harbor refits, they'd have probably been rather similar to the California, with its very strong AA.

Note that I'm not saying that a lot of players may wish that that's how things were done, but the reality is that that's not what WG did.

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2 hours ago, Nevermore135 said:

The 1930s rebuilds of these ships were extensive, involving significant changes to the hull form itself, drastically upgrading their machinery, boring out the guns to increase their caliber, and completely removing the amidships turret, among  other things. The two ships that were produced at the end of the process were essentially completely different ships. Nothing this extensive is present in any other ship in the game. Having such a change occur wouldn’t make sense from a gameplay perspective, and you can see it by comparing Conte Di Cavour to her younger sister.

WG screwed up when they placed GC at tier V, placing what was essentially a mid-to-late 30s fast battleship (albeit with smallish guns a.la Dunkerque), in a tier populated mostly by pre-WWI dreadnoughts with much more limited refits. That early in the game’s development, I get the impression that some developer got hung up on the date she was first commissioned and didn’t take into account her extensive rebuild when selecting a tier. WG showed back in 2019 that GC was just fine at tier VI, which is honestly where the rebuilt Conte Di Cavours belong.

I guarantee that if the ship wasn’t already in the game, we’d be seeing a rebuilt version of the class (likely GC since only two ships survived to get the rebuilds) at tier VI as the new premium to accompany the line. As is stands, I wouldn’t be surprised if we eventually see a Soviet GC at tier VI as Novorossiysk. After all, WG did spend resources creating the asset, so I imagine they will eventually put it to use.

They were effectively completely new ships. When the Giulio Cesare hit the waves after the re-manufacture the British thought it was a new class.

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2 hours ago, Crucis said:

And why exactly is that?  The GC in game is OP for tier 5, and should be a tier 6 premium BB.

Unless I'm driving it... Then it's a barge...

...or unless I'm facing them in New Yorks; which I used to reasonable effect to troll GCs that last, glorious T5 Ranked.

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3 hours ago, AJTP89 said:

It's GC. That refit was massive, one of the largest every done AFAIK, essentially new ships came out of it. That's far more than the usual upgrade path in game. Cavor is the pre-refit, GC is the post-refit

I know full well  Conte does not have the GC refit, WG made it that way because they new they would have another tech OP ship, that is my point.

That is there fault they were fine taking our money, then tried to back pedal by trying that up tier idea.

if people were salty about GC being OP and not having one Conte would have cleared up the GC drama because anyone who did the Italian BB line would have one almost as good. 

AS for yours and @Crucis comments on the USN BB hulls, some nations get full refit hull upgrades others don't.

Whether I'm wrong or right about WG policy tech tree ships which I'm basing off posts over the years I might ad, some ships in this game are exact to a  T while others are not.

I will leave it at that.

cheers    

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59 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Unless I'm driving it... Then it's a barge...

...or unless I'm facing them in New Yorks; which I used to reasonable effect to troll GCs that last, glorious T5 Ranked.

Any tier 5 BB can hurt the GC with a little friendly RNG.  But that's sort of the problem.  The GC has overly good accuracy.  It's not like its guns are OP due to their size or hitting power.

 

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23 minutes ago, tm63au said:

I know full well  Conte does not have the GC refit, WG made it that way because they new they would have another tech OP ship, that is my point.

That is there fault they were fine taking our money, then tried to back pedal by trying that up tier idea.

if people were salty about GC being OP and not having one Conte would have cleared up the GC drama because anyone who did the Italian BB line would have one almost as good. 

AS for yours and @Crucis comments on the USN BB hulls, some nations get full refit hull upgrades others don't.

Whether I'm wrong or right about WG policy tech tree ships which I'm basing off posts over the years I might ad, some ships in this game are exact to a  T while others are not.

I will leave it at that.

cheers    

TM, WG's only human.  They make mistakes.  Their marketing department will make decisions that their development department wouldn't make.  And so on.

I wasn't the slightest bit bothered by them wanting to move the GC up a tier.  And it frustrated me listening to the hypocrites in the community complaining about it.

 

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7 hours ago, Crucis said:

And why exactly is that?  The GC in game is OP for tier 5, and should be a tier 6 premium BB.

Hmm... debatable... she doesn't have the range nor armor to battle tier 8 ships, imo. 

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6 hours ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Hmm... debatable... she doesn't have the range nor armor to battle tier 8 ships, imo. 

Main gun range is one of those things that WG could adjust if they wanted to uptier the CG.  Ditto for armor.  The GC would still have smallish main guns, but so does the Dunkerque and Strasbourg. 

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GC's lack of main battery range is easily solved by running Sansonetti on it. And it's not like it's terribly short-ranged to begin with. For going up against tier 8s, yeah, but most other tier 6 battleships have that limitation, too, and don't enjoy GC's combination of mobility, concealment, and reliable gunnery.

Anyway.... if it's the 'final form' aesthetics you want, Andrea Doria is basically the same ship as Giulio Cesare, but even better-looking because of the additional greeblies. Doria is more or less what we would have gotten if GC had been moved up to tier 6, except it has SAP rather than the anemic Italian HE, which is a trade-up in my opinion.

I find Cavour to be a fantastic-looking ship as implemented (though I am a sucker for WW1 dreadnought aesthetics), and quite strong enough to deserve a permanent spot in my port even though I have Cesare.

--Helms

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5 hours ago, Crucis said:

Main gun range is one of those things that WG could adjust if they wanted to uptier the CG.  Ditto for armor.  The GC would still have smallish main guns, but so does the Dunkerque and Strasbourg. 

Only things I'd be wondering about would be the dispersion as well as velocities. Thankfully, CG is locked down (more or less). Well all, happy motoring in the new Italian ships. 

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50 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Only things I'd be wondering about would be the dispersion as well as velocities. Thankfully, CG is locked down (more or less). Well all, happy motoring in the new Italian ships. 

Meh, I wish that WG had told the complainers to pound sand on the GC issue back then.  

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