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db4100

My First Impression of the Italian Battleships

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THEY SUCK.

I have up to the tier 6 Andrea Doria.   I am not impressed at all.  The guns are similar to the Viribus Unitus.....and that ain't good.  The accuracy is poor, and when they do hit there is poor penetration.  The speed and maneuverability is good, but the guns suck.   I had numerous shots with the Andrea Doria at a broadside King George V British BB at about 10km away, and nothing.  Barely even hit it.  With ten guns, maybe 2-3 will hit....the accuracy is that  bad.  The SAP sucks too.  Solid hits on a DD with SAP.....seems to be less damage than using HE.

So far it is not a fun ship line

 

 

UPDATE.  

Screen shots of just how bad the accuracy is for the Andrea Doria (the T4 and T5 are even worse).

AIMED IN SCREEN SHOT

537023298_AndreaDoriaaimedin.thumb.jpg.91974f7208ed15c16c8de4ce11bddecf.jpg
 

FIRING.  note how crappy the dispersion is.

1948190019_AndreaDoriafiring.thumb.jpg.da8f30399f29c5ae43385d61015692ef.jpg

 

THE RESULTS.  3 overpens for crappy damage amount.  How are you suppose to "punish" a broadside ship with such crappy guns????
1739371226_AndreaDoria3overpens.thumb.jpg.e101f07d901dc674d4beac8dd69fd8ee.jpg

Edited by db4100
added content with screen shots
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only played a couple of battles in the t5 but overall i am inclined to agree that they suck, SAP is nearly useless vs battleships, dds or anything more armored than a light cruiser and AP lacks penetration wich is not a surprise given their low caliber. To make things worst they olso get terrible dispersion.

Guess WG got afraid of BB caliber SAP being broken so they end overnerfing it

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Of course it’s not fun! You haven’t spent the money to fxp to the (once again) only good ship in the line at Tier 10!

Don’t you know that that is the magical cure to all your in game problems? :Smile_sceptic:

Also, as was said above; SAP has a max damage against DDs, just like AP does. In that sense, HE would be better against DDs.

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1 hour ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Of course it’s not fun! You haven’t spent the money to fxp to the (once again) only good ship in the line at Tier 10!

It seems that first WG pushed players out of low tiers and now it seems that they are pushing players out of mid tiers. It appears that that they want players only to be playing tiers 8-10, and preferably just 10. While I can not judge based on my own experience, reviewers I have read and listened to indicate the line gets OK at tier 9 and good at tier 10. This seems to be the case with the Italian CAs, the US BB split, and to a lesser degree the Euro DDs. 

is there any hard evidence of this trend;  just mostly speculation; or poor shipline design? Maybe something else I am missing? 

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The Tier IV, Alighieri (sp?), at least has secondaries that pen 20mm. It has better sec guns than the Tier IX.  lol  It can maneuver okayish, around 23 kts.  The main batt is a mystery.  Sometimes it autodeletes stuff with SAP  (mainly ships with bad armour anyway),  sometimes it doesn't.  The AP is somewhat okay,  if it connects with the target.  Its own armour doesn't seem too bad, either.

 

It's just 'meh' for a Tier IV.  I'm not really encouraged to continue, but it doesn't scream 'suck' either.  Too bad the quests/missions require Tier V and up.

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It cannot be all that bad because almost every CC is complaining up a storm.

If they are complaining that much it must be good.

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8 minutes ago, Geococcyx said:

It seems that first WG pushed players out of low tiers and now it seems that they are pushing players out of mid tiers. It appears that that they want players only to be playing tiers 8-10, and preferably just 10. While I can not judge based on my own experience, reviewers I have read and listened to indicate the line gets OK at tier 9 and good at tier 10. This seems to be the case with the Italian CAs, the US BB split, and to a lesser degree the Euro DDs. 

is there any hard evidence of this trend;  just mostly speculation; or poor shipline design? Maybe something else I am missing? 

More a perception of things than anything else.

RN DDs lame until at least T8. Euro DDs, Baguette DDs. RM cruisers...

Lots of new lines the last little while that seem that way.

Promoted that such and such is the flavor of a line, but they don’t really display that ‘flavor’ until the highest tiers.

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SAP is good if it hits that reload time though 33 seconds seriously wargaming :Smile_sceptic:

Edited by LastRemnant

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One of the last major tech tree additions to the game and WG screws the pooch.   Very disappointed.  
 

Queue the unicum that comes in and tells us we’re all wrong and Italian BBs are OP :cap_old:

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2 hours ago, db4100 said:

THEY SUCK.

I have up to the tier 6 Andrea Doria.   I am not impressed at all.  The guns are similar to the Viribus Unitus.....and that ain't good.  The accuracy is poor, and when they do hit there is poor penetration.  The speed and maneuverability is good, but the guns suck. 

 

Completely the opposite of how my Viribus performs.  Hammering guns with great grouping.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Ann_Darrow said:

The Tier IV, Alighieri (sp?), at least has secondaries that pen 20mm. It has better sec guns than the Tier IX.  lol  It can maneuver okayish, around 23 kts.  The main batt is a mystery.  Sometimes it autodeletes stuff with SAP  (mainly ships with bad armour anyway),  sometimes it doesn't.  The AP is somewhat okay,  if it connects with the target.  Its own armour doesn't seem too bad, either.

 

It's just 'meh' for a Tier IV.  I'm not really encouraged to continue, but it doesn't scream 'suck' either.  Too bad the quests/missions require Tier V and up.

The tier 4 and 5 have 120mm secondaries, which are comparable to other low tier ships, tier 6 and up have a split secondary battery of 135mm or 152mm guns and 90mm guns. The 135's and 152's are better than the earlier 120mm guns, while the 90mm guns are almost ignorable.

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SAP rewards knowledge of mechanics just as much as AP does.  A few facts about the shell type: SAP never overpens, and always deals full pen damage if it pens.  It is able to overmatch using the same 14.3 rule as AP and thus ignore the ricochet check (381mm SAP will overmatch 26mm armour).  The pen works the same way as HE shells, in that the armour angle does not matter, it is just a straight check of SAP pen vs armour thickness (381mm SAP will pen 96mm or less armour).  SAP explodes on contact in the same way as HE (but with no splash damage), and thus will cause zero damage if it hits a torpedo belt or spaced armour.  SAP does a ricochet check on impact, where it checks overmatch, and then armour angle (BB SAP shells will pen up to 70°, then the ricochet chance will increase up to always being a ricochet at 80°).

What all this means is, your aim points are different to both AP and HE.  You want to be hitting the superstructure or deck of fully bow in or heavily angled BB's.  If you can overmatch the bow you can aim lower.  You never, ever, want to hit the main belt of a BB with SAP, or the lower main belt of a cruiser with SAP.  Any sort of angle if you are close enough you can aim at the bow or stern compartments.

To put it most simply though - for BB's and heavy cruisers - AIM HIGH!  If you were shooting at a BB at anything over close range, you want to be aiming to hit the bottom part of the superstructure.  You can be more discerning at closer ranges where you can get a reliable number of shells through the bow or stern at angles that will not cause a ricochet.

The reason why RM BB's have poor range, poor accuracy, and long reload, is the reliability of SAP damage, and the concern WG had over these shells being too effective at BB calibres.  Now have they overdone the mitigation, well they likely have, but the reason for that is because a SAP armed BB with the same range, reload, and accuracy of a normal BB would be absolutely OP, so they are being particularly cautious with the power level.

This also means that, just like in RM CA's, you should fire SAP on almost all occasions in your RM BB's.  The exception being when you are highly likely to get citadels from an AP salvo.  If you're mainly firing AP in your RM BB's, then all you are doing is sailing a BB that has worse reload, accuracy, range, AP penetration, and overmatch than all the other BB's you are fighting - in which case why are you even bothering?  The only reason to play RM BB's is to shoot SAP at stuff.

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1 hour ago, FrodoFraggin said:

One of the last major tech tree additions to the game and WG screws the pooch.   Very disappointed.  
 

Queue the unicum that comes in and tells us we’re all wrong and Italian BBs are OP :cap_old:

Well the Giulio Cesare is op

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i am happy to have blown the 800 tokens for the Alighieri

that is the cheapest port slot i have gotten (other than free ones).

the intent from the beginning was to buy and bag the boat.

 

of course with no upgrades i took her out for a spin just to check it out and

had a great game.    it's still gonna get sold for the slot, but i may take it out a few more times.

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I'm probably hallucinating here, but I have enjoyed the Italian ships. I actually like the SAP rounds.

I wish there were Italian DD's.

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Pure trash and not worth worrying about. The upcoming German 150mm destroyers are the same. Going to be a very boring year in world of warships.

 

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3 hours ago, Cit_the_bed said:

Pure trash and not worth worrying about. The upcoming German 150mm destroyers are the same. Going to be a very boring year in world of warships.

 

Ironically the tier X of the 15cm German DDs might be good. Apparently has heavy cruiser pen at a light cruiser caliber with enhanced Ricochet angles and the best penetration of any light cruiser gun in the game minus the Russian 180s. Might be a bug or an over buff, we’ll see.

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19 hours ago, MBT808 said:

Ironically the tier X of the 15cm German DDs might be good. Apparently has heavy cruiser pen at a light cruiser caliber with enhanced Ricochet angles and the best penetration of any light cruiser gun in the game minus the Russian 180s. Might be a bug or an over buff, we’ll see.

https://clips.twitch.tv/HungryEnjoyableMuleCorgiDerp-nJT_6GybnuD1xKrs

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At least on the tier 4 the AP feels far more useful than SAP... on everything.

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4 hours ago, Cit_the_bed said:

We’ll see if that remains the case in the future. One result isn’t enough. Also as soon as flamu mentions a broken engine and going super slow, I suspect that captain didn’t have last stand. So probably not the best example.

I’d wait for notser to post if he hasn’t already. Or even mouse to do some of her testing with the usual thoroughness. For now all we can do is theorize till we get our hands on them for testing.

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11 hours ago, MBT808 said:

We’ll see if that remains the case in the future. One result isn’t enough. Also as soon as flamu mentions a broken engine and going super slow, I suspect that captain didn’t have last stand. So probably not the best example.

I’d wait for notser to post if he hasn’t already. Or even mouse to do some of her testing with the usual thoroughness. For now all we can do is theorize till we get our hands on them for testing.

Rose colored glasses firmly on, eh?

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