Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Musket22

What it took to sink Yamato

31 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

77
[-AGW-]
Members
53 posts
25,493 battles

7 April 1945 – WW2 – During Operation Ten-Go April 7th 1945,

The Imperial Japanese battleship Yamato was attacked by 386 aircraft of all types from eight U.S. aircraft carriers.

She sustained thirty five torpedo and nineteen bomb hits before she sank.

Yamato - what it took to sink her.jpg

  • Cool 4
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,254
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
29,881 posts
25,782 battles

From the book, "Japanese Destroyer Captain" by Capt Hara Tameichi, who was commanding officer of CL Yahagi for Operation Ten-Go:

 

Destroyer Hatsushimo, loaded with hundreds of Yamato and Yahagi survivors, returned to Sasebo at noon on the 8th of April. An orderly knocked at the captain’s cabin as soon as we had anchored, and delivered a message to Admiral Komura. He read it, grimaced and handed it to me. It was a citation for the Second Fleet from Commander in Chief Combined Fleet, commending our force for “its gallant self sacrifice which enabled the Special Attack planes to achieve a great war result.”

 

What was this great war result? The air attack effort that day consisted of 114 planes. The 60 fighters, 40 bombers, and 14 kamikazes succeeded only in damaging carrier Hancock, battleship Maryland, and destroyer Bennett, at a cost of nearly 100 planes.

 

The Second Fleet had sortied with one battleship, one light cruiser and eight destroyers. It was attacked over a period of two hours by a total of 386 carrier-based planes. Ten of these planes and twelve American lives were lost to antiaircraft fire from our ships. Of the Second Fleet only three destroyers survived. Japanese lives lost in the action came to 2,498 in Yamato, 446 in Yahagi, and 721 in the destroyers.

 

These simple but astounding statistics tell the story of who won and who lost the last aerial-surface engagement of the war. The powerful navy which had launched the Pacific war forty months before with the attack on Pearl Harbor had at last been struck down. On April 7, 1945, with the sinking of battleship Yamato, the Imperial Japanese Navy died.

===

Also OP, your numbers are wrong.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
112
[KIVA]
Members
161 posts

To be entirely fair, though, we'll likely never know at what point the damage became fatal, since the Naval Aviators who sealed her fate lacked the benefit of a health bar to let them know when they should stop wasting ordinance.

  • Cool 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
758
[_I_]
Members
341 posts

The claims of aviators of all nations are invariably wildly optimistic. Your fanciful chart would have more credibility if you could have spelled "Intrepid" correctly.

Ten torpedoes and seven bombs is a more accurate representation.

 

 

  • Cool 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,254
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
29,881 posts
25,782 battles
8 minutes ago, Wrath_Of_Deadguy said:

To be entirely fair, though, we'll likely never know at what point the damage became fatal, since the Naval Aviators who sealed her fate lacked the benefit of a health bar to let them know when they should stop wasting ordinance.

You slam an enemy ship until it's no s**t sinking.  A capital ship most especially.  Even lesser ships like DDs, when another warship sees one is in bad shape, they'll pump more shells to make sure it's going down.  IIRC, one of the Taffy 3 USN Destroyers was in the process of sinking and passing by IJN DD made sure it was sinking by planting a few more shells into the hull.

 

A ship can be saved with a competent damage control effort.  You make sure that doesn't happen if at all possible.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,254
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
29,881 posts
25,782 battles
2 minutes ago, Hookie_Bell said:

The claims of aviators of all nations are invariably wildly optimistic. Your fanciful chart would have more credibility if you could have spelled "Intrepid" correctly.

Ten torpedoes and seven bombs is a more accurate representation.

 

 

Musashi actually took a lot of ordnance to fatally damage her, but the USN learned from that.  Their attacks were scattered all over the place and made it easier for IJN counterflooding efforts to try and keep her afloat longer.

 

When it was time for Yamato herself to go down, the ordnance spent was considerably lower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
758
[_I_]
Members
341 posts
1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

You slam an enemy ship until it's no s**t sinking.  A capital ship most especially.  Even lesser ships like DDs, when another warship sees one is in bad shape, they'll pump more ships to make sure it's going down.  IIRC, one of the Taffy 3 USN Destroyers was in the process of sinking and passing by IJN DD made sure it was sinking by planting a few more shells into the hull.

 

A ship can be saved with a competent damage control effort.  You make sure that doesn't happen if at all possible.

Plus, any ship that does not strike its colours or otherwise express surrender is fair game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,054
[SYN]
[SYN]
Beta Testers
2,374 posts
13,741 battles

You know you can keep torping a dead ship in the game and none of them count? Ya. Same thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,394
[WOLFG]
Members
32,322 posts
10,021 battles
1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

A Ahip can be saved with a competent damage control effort.  You make sure that doesn't happen if at all possible.

Not only that, but similar to the game, a ship that's going to sink in an hour can still hurt you or others.

The quicker it goes under, the quicker it stops shooting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
650
[WOLF7]
Members
876 posts
2 hours ago, Hookie_Bell said:

The claims of aviators of all nations are invariably wildly optimistic. Your fanciful chart would have more credibility if you could have spelled "Intrepid" correctly.

Ten torpedoes and seven bombs is a more accurate representation.

What, you've never heard of the mighty USS Interpid?  :Smile_trollface:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
760
[-TRM-]
[-TRM-]
Members
2,546 posts

They learned one lesson from Yamato Sinking in war.

DO NOT TORP BOTH SIDES. Counter Flooding and reserve bouyancy when skillfully used to post pone sinking until Damage Control Crews to patch holes.

When the Musashi showed up to fight, the planes had one simple instructions for torps. One side only. Repeat until sinky.

In terms of precious steel and resources not easily availible to the Japanese war effort, both ships were a liability and a burden.

Edited by xHeavy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,254
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
29,881 posts
25,782 battles
13 minutes ago, xHeavy said:

They learned one lesson from Yamato Sinking in war.

DO NOT TORP BOTH SIDES. Counter Flooding and reserve bouyancy when skillfully used to post pone sinking until Damage Control Crews to patch holes.

When the Musashi showed up to fight, the planes had one simple instructions for torps. One side only. Repeat until sinky.

In terms of precious steel and resources not easily availible to the Japanese war effort, both ships were a liability and a burden.

For the 3rd part of your post, you meant Yamato.

 

To be fair for the IJN regarding the go-ahead on building the Yamato-class, Battleships were a war proven weapon while Carriers were yet truly tried in the rigors of war.  Yes, the US, UK, Japan went all out in developing CV use and constructing them, etc.  But Battleships leading up to WWII were still seen as worthy of pursuit.  Every major navy had Battleships, but not all of them had Carriers.  I know in the IJN and USN there was still infighting for BBs vs CVs.  Yamamoto did not want the Yamato-class, he wanted more Fleet Carriers.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,022 posts
3,050 battles

The movie is well worth seen. Not perfect but better than anything Michael Bay has done.

 

 

 Also the carrier fighters having no escorts to shoot at, strafed the Yamato and the cruisers before any bombers attacked inflicting massive losses on all the exposed crew.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,054
[WPORT]
Members
8,141 posts
13,187 battles
35 minutes ago, LunchCutter said:

The movie is well worth seen. Not perfect but better than anything Michael Bay has done.

 

 

 Also the carrier fighters having no escorts to shoot at, strafed the Yamato and the cruisers before any bombers attacked inflicting massive losses on all the exposed crew.

 

Yep.  Some of the Japanese film industry's best work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
232
[HKC]
Members
757 posts
1 minute ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Yep.  Some of the Japanese film industry's best work.

Eh... well I watched the film and Kurosawa it is not.  It is a credible visual effort on short budget. Dramatically it falls well short, largely because they are tasked with trying to cast a veneer of heroic pathos over the tragic and meaningless sacrifice of young men; in not only a lost cause, but a morally and spiritually bankrupted and destructive one as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,069
[LWA]
Members
1,245 posts
1 hour ago, LunchCutter said:

The movie is well worth seen. Not perfect but better than anything Michael Bay has done.

 

 

 Also the carrier fighters having no escorts to shoot at, strafed the Yamato and the cruisers before any bombers attacked inflicting massive losses on all the exposed crew.

 

Yep, good movie.  Actually has a good story line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
359
[PHD]
Members
1,852 posts
7,264 battles

I thought a way that the Yamato appeared to blow up, was possibly by plan or accident. My theory was if you torpedo a ship on one side only enough that once a certain degree of list is acheived that if you hit it with a torpedo on the other side that instead of it hitting the side armor, and the torpedo protection system, it would hit the now exposed bottom with very little, if any, armor between the torpedo hit and the ships magazines. Just a thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,899
[SGSS]
Members
5,772 posts
6 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

From the book, "Japanese Destroyer Captain" by Capt Hara Tameichi, who was commanding officer of CL Yahagi for Operation Ten-Go:

 

Destroyer Hatsushimo, loaded with hundreds of Yamato and Yahagi survivors, returned to Sasebo at noon on the 8th of April. An orderly knocked at the captain’s cabin as soon as we had anchored, and delivered a message to Admiral Komura. He read it, grimaced and handed it to me. It was a citation for the Second Fleet from Commander in Chief Combined Fleet, commending our force for “its gallant self sacrifice which enabled the Special Attack planes to achieve a great war result.”

 

What was this great war result? The air attack effort that day consisted of 114 planes. The 60 fighters, 40 bombers, and 14 kamikazes succeeded only in damaging carrier Hancock, battleship Maryland, and destroyer Bennett, at a cost of nearly 100 planes.

 

The Second Fleet had sortied with one battleship, one light cruiser and eight destroyers. It was attacked over a period of two hours by a total of 386 carrier-based planes. Ten of these planes and twelve American lives were lost to antiaircraft fire from our ships. Of the Second Fleet only three destroyers survived. Japanese lives lost in the action came to 2,498 in Yamato, 446 in Yahagi, and 721 in the destroyers.

 

These simple but astounding statistics tell the story of who won and who lost the last aerial-surface engagement of the war. The powerful navy which had launched the Pacific war forty months before with the attack on Pearl Harbor had at last been struck down. On April 7, 1945, with the sinking of battleship Yamato, the Imperial Japanese Navy died.

===

Also OP, your numbers are wrong.

Thanks for that image.

We sent more planes to kill yammy than sent to Pearl 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
359
[PHD]
Members
1,852 posts
7,264 battles
5 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

From the book, "Japanese Destroyer Captain" by Capt Hara Tameichi, who was commanding officer of CL Yahagi for Operation Ten-Go:

 

 

I am re reading that book now, first time was many years ago. Still interesting, more so now I have other information to compare.

It seems the war started because army officers gained control of the government , and would kill anyone who opposed them, and they did not understand the ability and culture of America (I believe, unlike the navy, few had ever spent much time in the USA). The Japanese army and navy had different goals and interests, the army's was China. The lack of co operaton between the army and navy were rediculous, a country of limited resources with two groups fighting different wars.

Maybe the only way the IJN could have won was to attack with everything they had and keep attacking until they either won or were destroyed. But after Midway they tried conserving their major units just delaying the end. But they just didn't have the resources.

I have read several reasons for the apparent disasterously bad intelegence. Just wrong information (the usual reasons), not telling commanders things they did not want to hear (both to not upset them or keep your head attached to your body) and to just keep up morale. (Sure they are bombing our capitol every day, but they will run out of bombs soon and there is nothing important here anyway, it's part of our great plan.)

 

But in the end I guess it was just with the cultures of the time and situation just a train wreck that was going to happen

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
217
[WAP]
Beta Testers
337 posts
11,766 battles
12 minutes ago, GrayPanther2018 said:

I have read several reasons for the apparent disasterously bad intelegence. Just wrong information (the usual reasons), not telling commanders things they did not want to hear (both to not upset them or keep your head attached to your body) and to just keep up morale. (Sure they are bombing our capitol every day, but they will run out of bombs soon and there is nothing important here anyway, it's part of our great plan.)

But in the end I guess it was just with the cultures of the time and situation just a train wreck that was going to happen

 

I read a pretty good book on the Japanese failure of intelligence during the interwar and wartime period.  It was frankly catastrophic.  They had two completely different intelligence groups between the army and navy, and sharing information was unheard of.  

Anyone who thinks their military is a train wreck only needs to read about the Japanese military during this period to feel better about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
935
[REVY]
Members
2,639 posts
14,459 battles

so there is a historical section in the forum for things like this.

Otherwise this section is supposed to be on the gameplay of this Arcade game.

 

7 hours ago, Wrath_Of_Deadguy said:

To be entirely fair, though, we'll likely never know at what point the damage became fatal, since the Naval Aviators who sealed her fate lacked the benefit of a health bar to let them know when they should stop wasting ordinance.

plus in real life, there is never such a thing as 'overkill'. There is simply 'keep firing' and 'blast the hell out of it'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
760
[-TRM-]
[-TRM-]
Members
2,546 posts
4 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

For the 3rd part of your post, you meant Yamato.

 

To be fair for the IJN regarding the go-ahead on building the Yamato-class, Battleships were a war proven weapon while Carriers were yet truly tried in the rigors of war.  Yes, the US, UK, Japan went all out in developing CV use and constructing them, etc.  But Battleships leading up to WWII were still seen as worthy of pursuit.  Every major navy had Battleships, but not all of them had Carriers.  I know in the IJN and USN there was still infighting for BBs vs CVs.  Yamamoto did not want the Yamato-class, he wanted more Fleet Carriers.

I still remain committed to Musashi's Damage pattern as offered by which displays a greatly improved one sided damage pattern. There is some on the other side which I attribute to exigencies of battle.

The one side major ship torps only policy is suggested by Shinanio which was the largest Aircraft Carrier in WW2 and possibly almost as massive as our Modern Nimitzes but with a green just broke crew and hardly no damage control ability she went under fast.

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=159654

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×