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Canadian_Reaper

Soo how do I use SAP?

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Was lucky enough to get the Lepanto in a drop, and took it out for my first game

I've never used SAP before, and the game was pretty much a disaster (spawned on a side where our DD hid and the CA committed suicide, spent the next 8 minutes running to the other side of the map)

DIdn't really play well this game, (this isn't one of those "I tried to carrt but the team was so bad.." stories)  but..I did guess where the enemy Minotaur was going to appear. Sure enough the Mino pope out behind an island near broadside at like 4KM, I had all guns loaded with SAP, fired..

 

ANd I had 7 shots bounce and 2 pen. 

This was on a nearly broadside Mino, he was angled a bit, but nothing remotely extreme, If I'd had my Roma and AP loaded, I've have dev struck it. (barring poor RNG of course)

Never used SAP before, I had thought it was super punchy vs cruisers,  but now I'm curious..is it really just for superstructure or angled ships? IE I shouldn't try to pen cruiser citadels with it?

I'm pretty sure my jaw dropped when I saw 7 ricochets on the Mino..

Thanks!

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SAP cannot penetrate a Minotaur's citadel. It is designed to punch through upper belt, superstructure, bow and stern. Basically, reverse AP on most cruisers.

Edited by Compassghost
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Aim SAP at areas with moderate armor, not thick armor. Upper belts, hull extremities, superstructures ... SAP has limited pen, but doesn't lose pen over distance.

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The Italians had a rather large and heavy AP round, not only did it overpen light armor areas but it had alot of wear on the rifles. 

    Anyway SAP is meant to hit lightly armored areas where AP (being overly heavy) would overpen. 

    DDS don't like SAP nor do lightly armored cruisers. 

     That being said WG gave their version of SAP some odd qualities, yes aim for the deck superstructure turrets lifeboats and Jerry the guy swabbing the decks. SAP will bounce more in-game and Ricochet to odd angles doing major damage. 

      While you're waiting for the tree try out SAP on Italian cruisers, it can help you learn when to switch, obviously BB will be even heavier. 

      

Edited by grorg
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As lert said. And  sap looks like the 2nd choice vs  light cruisers at short-medium ranges because italian AP tends to overpen a lot against  light cruisers in short ranges so sap for more reliable damage.  And also sap when bbs are angled.

Edited by Nishimura_1

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Fought against a Lepanto yesterday. Hit me with SAP at my cruiser's superstructure and he got 15,000.

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37 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

SAP cannot penetrate a Minotaur's citadel. It is designed to punch through upper belt, superstructure, bow and stern. Basically, reverse AP on most cruisers.

I was fooling around with the ITA BBs in Co-Op and had to fight my Battleship play instinct to go for the armor belt.  Sometimes I forgot and ended up firing SAP there to unsurprising meh results.

 

Also if one is lazy about shell switching and just keep SAP on, you may miss chances to crush targets with AP.  The Italian 381mm AP is stronger than even the already powerful French 380mm AP.

 

It's nice to get some reliable 33% Pen damage with SAP, especially cases where Battleship AP would get bounced or have a bunch of 10% damage Overpens.  But there will be times to punish with AP and hopefully get the 100% Citadel damage.

4 minutes ago, Hukom said:

Fought against a Lepanto yesterday. Hit me with SAP at my cruiser's superstructure and he got 15,000.

Wait until Tier X Cristoforo Colombo goes Live.  Moar guns.

Lepanto 381mm 3x4

C.Colombo 381mm 4x4

There is currently only 1 BB in the game with 16 guns on Live Servers, and that's French Tier VII BB Lyon.  Cristoforo Colombo will soon join her.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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5 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Wait until Tier X Cristoforo Colombo goes Live.  Moar guns.

Lepanto 381mm 3x4

C.Colombo 381mm 4x4

There is currently only 1 BB in the game with 16 guns on Live Servers, and that's French Tier VII BB Lyon.  Cristoforo Colombo will soon join her.

I wonder if an extra 4 guns can effectively compensate for accuracy issues.

Seems to me for the ability to use smoke, accuracy took a hit to balance these ships. 

 

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1 minute ago, Merc_R_Us said:

Do I want to use SAP vs Destroyers in the Paulo E.? 

Yes unless they are super angled.

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A guide I saw a while ago said that you use SAP the in the same circumstances that you use HE shells.

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There's only a very few select ships that can get citadeled by the SAP from 381mm

 

Such as the Colbert or Smolensk/Ochakov

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11 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

The pointy end goes in the other ship.

If the pointy end faces towards your ship you are doing something wrong. If you shoot your guns when the pointy end is facing you, don't say I didn't warn you...

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Thanks All!

Obviously my bad for not doing any research, just thought they worked like AP, except they didn't overpen.

Next time I'll aim a little higher.

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You don't use SAP, you use HE to burn until you reach a certain distance and closing (About 9km between my GA and enemy GA for example which I know I can crit at 8km) then switch to pure AP and start punching crits.

Otherwise you will shoot and bounce SAP for 20 minutes or god knows how long in game. Its not worth it.

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10 minutes ago, xHeavy said:

You don't use SAP, you use HE to burn until you reach a certain distance and closing (About 9km between my GA and enemy GA for example which I know I can crit at 8km) then switch to pure AP and start punching crits.

Otherwise you will shoot and bounce SAP for 20 minutes or god knows how long in game. Its not worth it.

You do realize any ship with SAP doesn't have HE. Or are we just talking whimsical nonsense here?

Inquiring minds wanna know.  

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4 hours ago, xHeavy said:

You don't use SAP, you use HE

Alright, you tell me where the HE is on Italian battleships.

I'll wait.

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Aim for weakspots. The Superstructure, extremities, etc.

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8 hours ago, Hukom said:

I wonder if an extra 4 guns can effectively compensate for accuracy issues.

Seems to me for the ability to use smoke, accuracy took a hit to balance these ships. 

 

in reality their dispersion was terrible due to poor quality control of the shells in manufacturing..  shockingly bad..

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9 hours ago, Hukom said:

I wonder if an extra 4 guns can effectively compensate for accuracy issues.

Seems to me for the ability to use smoke, accuracy took a hit to balance these ships. 

 

There's a precedent for it.  Lyon is a well loved BB from the French BB Line.  Her accuracy is absolutely atrocious.  But 16 guns makes up for a lot of issues.

- 1.5 Sigma, which is trash.

- French / Italian / Old German BB Dispersion

 

But players of the FRBB Line loved Lyon's shotgun.  Lord help the target if RNG blesses the salvo and the dispersion is good.  One of the greatest feelings in the game is playing Lyon, firing off a 16-gun AP salvo at some Cruiser, you know your aim was good, and immediately see when the shells leave the barrels that the dispersion is good.

RIP the target.

27 minutes ago, SKurj said:

in reality their dispersion was terrible due to poor quality control of the shells in manufacturing..  shockingly bad..

Yes, the Italian 381mm shells had big issues.

"The Model 1934 was extremely accurate and was able to deliver very consistent and predictable patterns with devastating hitting power - with the ammunition used for trials. Unfortunately, the materials and supply process in Italy works differently than it does in most other countries. In the U.S., for example, if one wished to test a sample of 16" shells, they might pull an example from stock, and inspect it directly. In Italy, the firm producing the equipment would have the advantage of providing the item for test, thereby possibly delivering an example which would be of atypically good quality with respect to serialized units. This was the problem with the Model 1934 - the firms producing the ammunition did not all produce projectiles of proper quality. [Admiral Angelo] Iachino complained about this in post-war books. Some actions showed a run of good projectiles, where others were plagued by terribly bad examples. Possibly the greatest contrast was seen between the shooting of Littorio in the first battle of Sirte Gulf and that of Vittorio Veneto in the 28 March Guado encounter. Despite the fact that Littorio was shooting at targets 32,000 yards away while Veneto was attacking at first Orion and afterwards Gloucester at only 24,000 yards, the Littorio's shot groups were significantly more consistent, despite the greater range, doubtlessly owing to a batch of properly fabricated 381-mm projectiles." - Comments by Maurizio Di Sciullo

Roma!

WNIT_15-50_m1934_Roma_pic.jpg

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9 hours ago, Hukom said:

I wonder if an extra 4 guns can effectively compensate for accuracy issues.

Seems to me for the ability to use smoke, accuracy took a hit to balance these ships. 

 

I just saw a Lepanto in my game in the Georgia. The SAP was just raping me at range. Don't think it is a problem for that ship. One salvo did almost 20k. There may have to be some adjustments. Yet I played the tier IV Italian in a coop to see what it could do and the shells were all over the place. Sometimes I got maybe two hits at 8,000 yards. It was very frustrating. 

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4 hours ago, ArtfulNothing_ said:

You do realize any ship with SAP doesn't have HE. Or are we just talking whimsical nonsense here?

Inquiring minds wanna know.  

In the interest of pedantry, Paolo Emilio has both SAP and HE (and no AP).  But that's irrelevant to this discussion of battleships.

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