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Lowmein

SAP shells and how they work?

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I'm curious, has anyone ever hit a citadel with a sap shell? I've tried many times in the Italian cruisers all they way up to T10 and never been able to even on a broadside minotaur. I don't have much experience with the Italian BB line yet, but is there anyone that has with an Italian bb? Or did I miss something somewhere long ago when SAP first appeared in the game that they are in capable of penetrating far enough into the Citadel. Curious what the responses are going to be!  

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Venezia SAP has 55mm of Pen if I remember correctly, pretty sure Mino has more citadel armor. So no, Venezia can't SAP citadel that ship. SAP has a fixed pen value, just like HE so angling (except autobounce) does not matter.

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The pen on Italian SAP is not enough to citadel a Minotaur.

Venezia has 54mm pen.

image.png.e2a62eee388c1e49faae6318870f2df2.png

Lepanto has 96mm of pen.

image.png.71e71ac45ca813cf71df72a47096f35b.png

image.thumb.png.5f8f552525bda879c8f8c9832db0dc96.png

Minotaur has 101mm of side plate.

You can citadel a Smolensk with BB SAP.

image.thumb.png.47f423ed89ce30d17bf009f03f059bea.png

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26 minutes ago, Lowmein said:

I'm curious, has anyone ever hit a citadel with a sap shell? I've tried many times in the Italian cruisers all they way up to T10 and never been able to even on a broadside minotaur. I don't have much experience with the Italian BB line yet, but is there anyone that has with an Italian bb? Or did I miss something somewhere long ago when SAP first appeared in the game that they are in capable of penetrating far enough into the Citadel. Curious what the responses are going to be!  

SAP can citadel, but it's limited to ships that can be citadeled with HE. SAP is basically just HE with more damage and penetration at the cost of bounce angles, so that makes sense.

In order to citadel with SAP, the ship you are shooting at has to have A: the citadel all the way up to the outer hull, and B: not have more citadel armor than the SAP has penetration.

Those two conditions mean it's mostly low to mid tier cruisers that can be citadeled with SAP. Almost nothing at the higher tiers has the citadel right up against the hull like that.

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5 minutes ago, shinytrashcan said:

Venezia SAP has 55mm of Pen if I remember correctly, pretty sure Mino has more citadel armor. So no, Venezia can't SAP citadel that ship. SAP has a fixed pen value, just like HE so angling (except autobounce) does not matter.

This. I’ve gotten SAP citadels on ships with exposed citadels that are thin enough for SAP to pen. It’s more likely in mid and low tiers, since a lot of the exposed citadel ships have thin armor there that your SAP can easily go through - ships like Mikoyan, and Ranger come to mind right away, ships that can already be citadeled with HE (and especially Ranger, which can be citadeled by destroyer HE). 

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SAP shells are a hybrid of sorts between AP & HE shell characteristics.  What's your ship's SAP Penetration value?  You can see that in port if you hover your cursor over Main Battery.  Below is Tier V Genova, 203mm SAP has 54mm Penetration.  Venezia in Tier X shares the same value.

shot-21-02-17-17-51-21-0846.jpg

 

SAP shells like HE have a fixed Penetration value, typically better than HE shells of the same size.  For a Cruiser sized SAP shell to Citadel another Cruiser, the target Cruiser's Citadel protection has to be very bad.

Tier V Genova can SAP Citadel Tier V Russian Cruisers Mikoyan & Kirov because their armor belts are 35mm and 50mm respectively.

However, Genova's SAP shells cannot Citadel Tier V Cruisers Omaha and Emerald because their armor belts are too thick.  Both Emerald & Omaha have 76mm armor belts.

 

Generally, only in mid-lower tiers is there a real chance for Cruiser SAP to Citadel another Cruiser using those shells because as you climb the tiers, Cruiser armor belts get thicker.  Even Smolensk in Tier X who has paper thin armor has a 100mm armor belt.

 

 

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They don't its all razzle dazzle to those unaware of them and what they cost.

I use HE to burn superstructures (And some ships have semi penetrate on HE as captian skill) then switch to AP when it's time to critical hit the crap out of the enemy.

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46 minutes ago, MasterDiggs said:

You can probably SAP cit an Omaha, everything else can :Smile-_tongue:

You can't with Cruiser SAP.  203mm SAP has 54mm Penetration, Omaha & Emerald have 76mm armor belts.  In that same tier, you can SAP Citadel Mikoyan & Kirov.  They have 35mm and 50mm armor belts respectively.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Thanks for all the input everyone! I guess I just never looked to see that pen values. I didnt realize it was so low O_O It makes sense now!

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