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Ahskance

0.10.1 Flak Change Explanation

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WarGaming got back to me and confirmed the change noted in the patch notes was in reference to the planes that flew too fast for flak to interact with. 

Some folks asked about what that meant on the stream, so I did a quick presentation over what the change is supposed to address.

Note: Language Warning - I doth do swears~

Second Note: Double-posted.  One for CV reference section (long term), second for General Information (short term)

Raw Link: https://youtu.be/z1QffEN59q8

Edited by Ahskance
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This is epic news for ships that rely on/have allot of flack. Atlanta and Worcester should rejoice. 

That said, these speed limitations by WG, leaves to wonder will the flack spawning be scaled correctly if/when WG introduces faster aircraft? Because if WoT is any indicator, capabilities only go up in future interactions of vehicles/ships. Aka, obj-430U vs IS-4.

Meanwhile, this is currently a huge buff to all AA ships; not just cruisers.

Edited by Crokodone

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The fact that planes can out manuever the flak is kind of goofy. There should be some randomness to it as well so they can't predict the burst.

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6 minutes ago, Crokodone said:

This is epic news for ships that rely on/have allot of flack. Atlanta and Worcester should rejoice. 

That said, these speed limitations by WG, leaves to wonder will the flack spawning be scaled correctly if/when WG introduces faster aircraft? Because if WoT is any indicator, capabilities only go up in future interactions of vehicles/ships. Aka, obj-430U vs IS-4.

Meanwhile, this is currently a huge buff to all AA ships; not just cruisers.

This was really only an edgecase thing to begin with.  Graf Zeppelin and some of the Tier 10 CVs had planes that could "break the flak barrier" if you will.  This isn't something that magically makes all flak amazing, it's just fixing the formula to account for the outliers.

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At least they're fixing that problem. 

Now they need to make the flak more random so sometimes it hits where the pilot evades to, instead of where they're evading from. 

 

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1 minute ago, Swervenkill said:

The fact that planes can out maneuver the flak is kind of goofy. There should be some randomness to it as well so they can't predict the burst.

There is randomness.  Flak is placed "Center", "Left, or "Right", but you can use speed and turning to put the majority out of your path.

However, when there are multiple ships, sometimes the flak tracks quickly enough that while you can turn out... it's rather hard to turn back in again.

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1 minute ago, KilljoyCutter said:

At least they're fixing that problem. 

Now they need to make the flak more random so sometimes it hits where the pilot evades to, instead of where they're evading from. 

This does actually happen.  Though it's more often when flak starts to "saturate" at 10+ flak puffs (re: 2-3 ships).

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I don't think that will change much if the player knows what he is doing.

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38 minutes ago, Swervenkill said:

The fact that planes can out manuever the flak is kind of goofy. There should be some randomness to it as well so they can't predict the burst.

Agreed. But at the same time, evasive maneuvers should reduce how effective the flak is, compared to flying straight in.

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This just highlights to me how poorly implemented flak was, period. As it stands no good CV player is bothered by it.

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2 hours ago, Ahskance said:

WarGaming got back to me and confirmed the change noted in the patch notes was in reference to the planes that flew too fast for flak to interact with. 

Some folks asked about what that meant on the stream, so I did a quick presentation over what the change is supposed to address.

Note: Language Warning - I doth do swears~

Second Note: Double-posted.  One for CV reference section (long term), second for General Information (short term)

 

I still don't get it 

Flak has no problem hitting me.

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2 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

I still don't get it 

Flak has no problem hitting me.

Just Dodge :cap_cool:

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2 hours ago, Ahskance said:

However, when there are multiple ships, sometimes the flak tracks quickly enough that while you can turn out... it's rather hard to turn back in again.

Flak spawns at a fixed rate of every 2 seconds. There is thus no variation in tracking, as such flak can always be outmaneuvered unless when using planes with diminished maneuverability such as FDR ones.

Edited by El2aZeR
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2 hours ago, Ahskance said:

This was really only an edgecase thing to begin with.

You rang? :cap_look:

2 hours ago, WarStore said:

I don't think that will change much if the player knows what he is doing.

It will force bombers to either speed juke or take a slightly longer path, both of which mean the planes stay in AA slightly longer and take slightly more damage. A maneuvering target may also be able to achieve a few more degrees of angling. In theory, CV players can also now screw up and eat the flak. All of these represent a slight buff to AA effectiveness, compared to the pre-patch world in which a player would just slam on the W key and take the fastest, straightest line to dunk on a target.

37 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Flak spawns at a fixed rate of every 2 seconds. There is thus no variation in tracking

It's supposed to, but I'm pretty sure I've seen odd cases involving multiple ships where two sets of flak get spawned at staggered intervals, which is super annoying. Never figured out a consistent way to reproduce it though.

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1 minute ago, Edgecase said:

 

It's supposed to, but I'm pretty sure I've seen odd cases involving multiple ships where two sets of flak get spawned at staggered intervals, which is super annoying. Never figured out a consistent way to reproduce it though

 

I see this also, but comparing the effects with what is seen, I think that it is just what gets rendered rather than what is actually happening. 

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Good to see they fixed this bug - some CV's being able to effectively ignore flak was pretty broken, and it also would have heavily skewed performance stats and thus balancing.  Will be interesting to see how MvR, Indomitable, and GZ perform post patch.

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1 hour ago, jags_domain said:

I still don't get it 

Flak has no problem hitting me.

That's because you're bad.

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50 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

It's supposed to, but I'm pretty sure I've seen odd cases involving multiple ships where two sets of flak get spawned at staggered intervals, which is super annoying. Never figured out a consistent way to reproduce it though.

What you have perhaps observed is visual variance due to render delay and/or latency. That is however independent of the damage zone which always spawns at a fixed rate.

Regardless, just evade preemptively and it'll never bother you.

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4 minutes ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

That's because you're bad.

Anyone that says someone to trite with the soul intention is to male themselves sound important but produce nothing does not have an opinion worth anything.

That is typical of everyone with CVDS. Hate for hate but never anything useful is said.

Enjoy your hate as you get bombed.

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2 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Anyone that says someone to trite with the soul intention is to male themselves sound important but produce nothing does not have an opinion worth anything.

Flak is quite literally a skill check. If you constantly get hit by flak then you're constantly failing said skill check, from which one can only conclude that your performance is not very good in CVs.

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9 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Flak is quite literally a skill check. If you constantly get hit by flak then you're constantly failing said skill check, from which one can only conclude that your performance is not very good in CVs.

I dodge some but you always get hit by some.

This constant narrative that you all suck because I am perfect is beyond tiring in every aspect of life.

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31 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

I dodge some but you always get hit by some.

This constant narrative that you all suck because I am perfect is beyond tiring in every aspect of life.

Which means your evasion pattern is lacking. Do you dodge flak before or after it appears on your screen? And how fast are you typically going when entering AA?

It has nothing to do with comparing yourself to anyone else, but you failing to clear a simple objective bar that divides between what can be considered good and bad. There is no shame in admitting that you're bad at it, it is the first step to self improvement.

Edited by El2aZeR
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Was fooling around w skills and did the 2 AA skills on one of my reserve commanders in Warspite. I think my AA hurt the CV's planes a little more than usual, but all the AA skills really did was to make the CV driver decide to focus me until he sunk me, so I think the flak fix was a direct nerf to my ship. 

:cap_look:

Seriously, AA skills seem a total waste on most everything, but I don't have Atlanta or Wooster.

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1 hour ago, jags_domain said:

Anyone that says someone to trite with the soul intention is to male themselves sound important but produce nothing does not have an opinion worth anything.

That is typical of everyone with CVDS. Hate for hate but never anything useful is said.

Enjoy your hate as you get bombed.

That's a lot of words to say you dont understand game mechanics.

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