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ArIskandir

Last minute counsel: Bismarck how?

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So, looking for a functional build for my Bismarck, Random focused. 

I'm running a 15pt captain, the build I'm most inclined to settle for is +secondary range skill at T3 and CE & Fire Prevention at T4. Dispersion module at slot 3, Rudder and concealment for slots 4 & 5.

I intend to play this as sneaky Bismarck, 12 km and change concealment, 10 km secondaries for the fireworks. In time I might upgrade to manual secondaries but not really sold yet.

What's your opinion? 

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I've run a similar build, and found it great fun in Coop but very situational in Randoms.  If you can Div with a couple players who will push with you it could be OK?  I only play solo randoms so most games I found the current Meta of BB's hanging back very frustrating when trying to sneak up.

 

I tried it with Manual Secondaries but no Fire Prevention and that was a disaster, you get more damage by living longer than the dispersion buff from manual targeting.  The main battery reload boost when targets are in range of your secondaries was excellent though - your main guns going a few seconds faster can be HUGE in close range as those seconds can prevent an entire barrage or another torpedo wave coming your way.

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Its a tough call with. Imma just gonna zero my KM BB captains until someone makes brawling great again.

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36 minutes ago, Landtuber said:

I only play solo randoms so most games I found the current Meta of BB's hanging back very frustrating when trying to sneak up.

More or less the same over here, I don't expect it to be easy but well, she's not a sniper :D

25 minutes ago, AnimaL21 said:

theres a sneaky Bismark? 

No one expects a sneaky Bismarck! 

13 minutes ago, Barazzuolio said:

Its a tough call with. Imma just gonna zero my KM BB captains until someone makes brawling great again.

That might take months, and when they change it again there will be probably a free reset. Any case, I'm not willing to wait that long to play the ship.

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39 minutes ago, AnimaL21 said:

theres a sneaky Bismark? 

I'd imagine it's a case of "sneaky" as compared to other Bismarck's, meaning that while it could successfully sneak up on Hellen Keller it would fail in an attempt to take Stevie Wonder by surprise :Smile-_tongue:

Edited by WaywardVariable
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1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

So, looking for a functional build for my Bismarck, Random focused. 

I'm running a 15pt captain, the build I'm most inclined to settle for is +secondary range skill at T3 and CE & Fire Prevention at T4. Dispersion module at slot 3, Rudder and concealment for slots 4 & 5.

I intend to play this as sneaky Bismarck, 12 km and change concealment, 10 km secondaries for the fireworks. In time I might upgrade to manual secondaries but not really sold yet.

What's your opinion? 

This is what I am running on my 21 point German commander and it is what the Bismarck will eventually have also. 
image.thumb.png.712100b3617a8cdc3f2c93383f085b38.png

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1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

So, looking for a functional build for my Bismarck, Random focused. 

I'm running a 15pt captain, the build I'm most inclined to settle for is +secondary range skill at T3 and CE & Fire Prevention at T4. Dispersion module at slot 3, Rudder and concealment for slots 4 & 5.

I intend to play this as sneaky Bismarck, 12 km and change concealment, 10 km secondaries for the fireworks. In time I might upgrade to manual secondaries but not really sold yet.

What's your opinion? 

JuSt UsE DeAd EyE!

Sorry, couldn't help it. But honestly, if you want an effective build, Dead Eye + Concealment Expert almost always works (save for some of those BBs with EXTREMELY large detection ranges maybe), because then you can pick up Fire Prevention and survivability skills. That said, if you want to at least make POSSIBLE use of your secondaries as a glorified proc machine, then max out its range and get the Close Quarters Expert for the reload skill, in addition to Dead Eye + CE. Now this will mean you have NO survivability skills, so it's definitely not optimal. 

That said, the way you want to make it work might work too (I've done a similar build before). it's basically a 2.9km gap between having Dead Eye or the reload boost if you make it a Dead Eye/CQE Main Reload Boost hybrid with Aiming Systems Mod 1. But again, you'll have only Concealment Expert as a survivability skill, and at high tiers, with all the HE, you really do want Fire Prevention.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

JuSt UsE DeAd EyE!

Sorry, couldn't help it. But honestly, if you want an effective build, Dead Eye + Concealment Expert almost always works (save for some of those BBs with EXTREMELY large detection ranges maybe), because then you can pick up Fire Prevention and survivability skills. That said, if you want to at least make POSSIBLE use of your secondaries as a glorified proc machine, then max out its range and get the Close Quarters Expert for the reload skill, in addition to Dead Eye + CE. Now this will mean you have NO survivability skills, so it's definitely not optimal. 

That said, the way you want to make it work might work too (I've done a similar build before). it's basically a 2.9km gap between having Dead Eye or the reload boost if you make it a Dead Eye/CQE Main Reload Boost hybrid with Aiming Systems Mod 1. But again, you'll have only Concealment Expert as a survivability skill, and at high tiers, with all the HE, you really do want Fire Prevention.

 

 

Most other builds will have Dead Eye, going for the same playstyle here is supremely boring. As I intend to use this thing a bit like a cruiser, I will creep up near detection range trying to surprise stuff broadside and put some pain in them, depending on the situation, I'll either banish away or push into brawl. With 15 points, I'm not sacrificing Survivability for a skill I plan to use maybe half the time.

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29 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

No one expects a sneaky Bismarck! 

Definitely not the British anyway... 

I always wondered just how the hell you lose sight of a Biz during a battle.  It'd be one thing for the real Biz to sneak away if there was like 100 of them out there in a crowd with little bowlers hats on... but there wasn't. 

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Regrinding Bismarck here. My advice is forget all secondary-related skills in this patch and just build full tank (BoS/FP/CE/Repair). Secondaries aren't accurate enough to sink 7 points plus modules into, and CQC is not enough of a bonus to offset the risk you incur by closing to those ranges.

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I sneak up in my Bismarck all the time.  Gotta think like a DD (or a pushing cruiser) on the early push.  Use terrain for cover, which includes thinking like a red DD captain as they often play the cover game too and in doing so can't spot the sneaky Bismarck.  I don't use an all out secondary skill captain, preferring survival skills over the final couple of talents that boost secondary rates.  After all, you still gotta survive when the merge is made...and you're going to get focused once the gig is up.  But it really is a lot of fun turning that corner and catching DDs and CA off balance...they're like...whoa...where did that guy come from.   

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2 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

So, looking for a functional build for my Bismarck, Random focused. 

I'm running a 15pt captain, the build I'm most inclined to settle for is +secondary range skill at T3 and CE & Fire Prevention at T4. Dispersion module at slot 3, Rudder and concealment for slots 4 & 5.

I intend to play this as sneaky Bismarck, 12 km and change concealment, 10 km secondaries for the fireworks. In time I might upgrade to manual secondaries but not really sold yet.

What's your opinion? 

havent played bis in a while but quite sure that a full concealment build will still leave you with  well over 12km detection radius

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15 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

Regrinding Bismarck here. My advice is forget all secondary-related skills in this patch and just build full tank (BoS/FP/CE/Repair). Secondaries aren't accurate enough to sink 7 points plus modules into, and CQC is not enough of a bonus to offset the risk you incur by closing to those ranges.

 

7 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

I sneak up in my Bismarck all the time.  Gotta think like a DD (or a pushing cruiser) on the early push.  Use terrain for cover, which includes thinking like a red DD captain as they often play the cover game too and in doing so can't spot the sneaky Bismarck.  I don't use an all out secondary skill captain, preferring survival skills over the final couple of talents that boost secondary rates.  After all, you still gotta survive when the merge is made...and you're going to get focused once the gig is up.  But it really is a lot of fun turning that corner and catching DDs and CA off balance...they're like...whoa...where did that guy come from.   

So far my investiment in secondaries is limited to 3 points to extend the range up to 10 km. I only expect from them to light fires, not to deal significant amounts of damage. 

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5 minutes ago, pepe_trueno said:

havent played bis in a while but quite sure that a full concealment build will still leave you with  well over 12km detection radius

12,9 km iirc.  Not awesome but still good enough to work with and jump on some cruisers

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1 minute ago, ArIskandir said:

So far my investiment in secondaries is limited to 3 points to extend the range up to 10 km. I only expect from them to light fires, not to deal significant amounts of damage. 

I don't get very impressive hit rates on basic secondary dispersion at the extended ~10km range. Even if you're not trying to raw DPS people with them, the secondaries still have to land enough shells to have a reasonable chance of lighting fires. And if you have to close to 8km to get them to land more shells, then the extended range did nothing.

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8 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

I don't get very impressive hit rates on basic secondary dispersion at the extended ~10km range. Even if you're not trying to raw DPS people with them, the secondaries still have to land enough shells to have a reasonable chance of lighting fires. And if you have to close to 8km to get them to land more shells, then the extended range did nothing.

That's precisely my doubt. I'm getting about 15% hit rate at 10km (did a couple of test runs), looks measly but I usually got some fires. And there's some psychological considerations at being subjected to a hail of fire. I am really undecided on this.

Edited by ArIskandir

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1 hour ago, AnimaL21 said:

I always wondered just how the hell you lose sight of a Biz during a battle.
I guess you’ve never sailed in the North Sea.

Edited by USSCurtis

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3 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

So, looking for a functional build for my Bismarck, Random focused. 

I'm running a 15pt captain, the build I'm most inclined to settle for is +secondary range skill at T3 and CE & Fire Prevention at T4. Dispersion module at slot 3, Rudder and concealment for slots 4 & 5.

I intend to play this as sneaky Bismarck, 12 km and change concealment, 10 km secondaries for the fireworks. In time I might upgrade to manual secondaries but not really sold yet.

What's your opinion? 

I tested in coop with 19pt captain. Only full secondary build is worth using, anything less gives meager results. I only intend to play it in coop for secondary hits missions, which will be easily finished. I see no point in playing german bbs inrandoms, but if you must deadeye seems the only way.

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25 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

12,9 km iirc.  Not awesome but still good enough to work with and jump on some cruisers

the problem is enemy ships wont let you close the range so easily, the moment you are spoted they will turn and try to run away and that diference between your concealment and your secondary range will get you in a terrible spot where you are to close to avoid damage yet not close enought to use your secondary guns or skills like CQC.

its the reason why i had better results in the odin than any other german BB, 12km concealment with 11.6km secondary guns gives the enemy very little room to run away.

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5 minutes ago, pepe_trueno said:

the problem is enemy ships wont let you close the range so easily, the moment you are spoted they will turn and try to run away and that diference between your concealment and your secondary range will get you in a terrible spot where you are to close to avoid damage yet not close enought to use your secondary guns or skills like CQC.

its the reason why i had better results in the odin than any other german BB, 12km concealment with 11.6km secondary guns gives the enemy very little room to run away.

I'm not that really invested into wanting to use my secondaries, just thinking on them as bonus fires when brawling. My remaining question is if 10 km instead of stock 8 is worth 3 points in exchange. 

Edited by ArIskandir

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1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

Most other builds will have Dead Eye, going for the same playstyle here is supremely boring. As I intend to use this thing a bit like a cruiser, I will creep up near detection range trying to surprise stuff broadside and put some pain in them, depending on the situation, I'll either banish away or push into brawl. With 15 points, I'm not sacrificing Survivability for a skill I plan to use maybe half the time.

Good on you, that's honestly great to hear! I too, have been trying to use builds that DON'T use Dead Eye, although I DO use builds that are probably kinda risky to use, due to lack of survivability (it DOES work wonders on Oklahoma and Mutsu though, somehow)...Anyways, if you want, go with the CQE reload boost secondaries combo, fire Prevention and the Superintendent 4pt skill, you know the one. Emergency Repair Expert I think? You should be able to fit that stuff if you get enough points. 14 pts though gets you the secondaries main reload combination and either the extra heal or the fire prevention! Although I think you'll want Adrenaline Rush too, so watch your points.

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