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vikingno2

Dear Dead Eyed Dummies

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This is a plea for the rest of us, just because you have a new skill does not mean simple tactical techniques and practices are now moot. You need to still support your screening forces, got to move up a little its ok, we will appreciated it. You have to learn to hit at mid range before you can hope to hit a long range. Over and over again I get into games where 5 BBs are so far back they are really not "influencing' the battle. You DDs and cruiser will truly thank you. The game paly is just poor right now, due in a large part to the unintended consequences of Dead Eye. The team that is mutually supporting each other will win against a team of Back line BBs that don't push until they are 400 points down and blind.

Last game as an example: It was Sleeping Giant, I was in a Daring. A Shimma ran into the enclosed Cap , I jump into his smoke and followed him in, then was able to gun him down but our Thunderer , Vermont and Conq never moved up to even have guns on the openings. The were too busy on the 2 and 3 row looking for the Dev strike. The other team all push up together. Their BBs turn full broad side to get into the enclosure with no fear at all, I mean why shoot at a BB12k away when you might 3 times out of 10 Dev strike a cruiser at 20k. I got a few torp into them but died.  Ended up a blow out loss with three of our BBs still on 2nd line at end of the game(Mostly full health). Other team won on points. Not really laying blame and I am sure there was something I could have done different. But this keeps happening game after game; been on the winning side quite a bit under the same scenario, no fun there either. You have to at least be a visible threat sometimes.

 

Edited by vikingno2
Use wrong word
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6 minutes ago, vikingno2 said:

This is a plea for the rest of us, just because you have a new skill does not mean simple tactical techniques and practices are now mute. You need to still support your screening forces, got to move up a little

This. Although I think you mean "moot" (irrelevant) instead of "mute" (unable to speak).

There is a time to use your Deadeye skill and a time to realize that the situation demands you discard it and get in close. By the time stuff is close enough to inactivate it, it's usually irrelevant anyway.

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Dead eye doesn't make them dummies. It rewards them for being one. They are not going to play the game to win, dead eye or not.

Edited by chewonit
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9 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

This. Although I think you mean "moot" (irrelevant) instead of "mute" (unable to speak).

There is a time to use your Deadeye skill and a time to realize that the situation demands you discard it and get in close. By the time stuff is close enough to inactivate it, it's usually irrelevant anyway.

Thank you Sir, I did mean moot, I will correct

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3 minutes ago, chewonit said:

It rewards them for being one.

It doesn't reward them; it gives them an excuse to cling to.

Where their excuse falls down is that to them, Deadeye = an excuse to sit at their maximum gun range and plink from there, whereas in some cases they could be up to 10km closer and actually influencing the battle with the skill still active.

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They don't seem to grasp that your ship will be more accurate at 15km without deadeye than at 20km with it.

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51 minutes ago, vikingno2 said:

This is a plea for the rest of us, just because you have a new skill does not mean simple tactical techniques and practices are now moot. You need to still support your screening forces, got to move up a little its ok, we will appreciated it. You have to learn to hit at mid range before you can hope to hit a long range. Over and over again I get into games where 5 BBs are so far back they are really not "influencing' the battle. You DDs and cruiser will truly thank you. The game paly is just poor right now, due in a large part to the unintended consequences of Dead Eye. The team that is mutually supporting each other will win against a team of Back line BBs that don't push until they are 400 points down and blind.

the only back line BBs i see are the ones who have to head that way due to the ineffectiveness of DDs& cls who have no clue how to stop a ship of their own class....BBs dont move up because CLs are either running to the back and in the way or DDs are ..you are given room to roam ...so you can move from one island to another ....BBs dont move up since friendly torps seem to be fired randomly with no purpose other than "  hope i hit something they usually come thru there attitude" remember the "RULE#1 dont fire from behind your allies....bbs need to be back to get shells over islands and mountains ....

so im not moving up at all ....learn to play your ships to their strengths or find the ships that work for your style of play..

tip; get yourself into a good position and let the bbs get into a good position..if you see a bb moving thats what they are trying to do ...

all maps are different and played differently...bbs really dont want you to get deleted especially with 1/2 a game left ..spotting is everything learn how to do it with out getting your eyes shot out  

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STOP PICKING ON BAD PLAYERS WHO USE DEAD EYE AND CAMP AT THE BACK.

 

CVs have to eat too, you know.

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3 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

STOP PICKING ON BAD PLAYERS WHO USE DEAD EYE AND CAMP AT THE BACK.

 

CVs have to eat too, you know.

FDR supports this message. 

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25 minutes ago, arch4random said:

the only back line BBs i see are the ones who have to head that way due to the ineffectiveness of DDs& cls who have no clue how to stop a ship of their own class....BBs dont move up because CLs are either running to the back and in the way or DDs are ..you are given room to roam ...so you can move from one island to another ....BBs dont move up since friendly torps seem to be fired randomly with no purpose other than "  hope i hit something they usually come thru there attitude" remember the "RULE#1 dont fire from behind your allies....bbs need to be back to get shells over islands and mountains ....

so im not moving up at all ....learn to play your ships to their strengths or find the ships that work for your style of play..

tip; get yourself into a good position and let the bbs get into a good position..if you see a bb moving thats what they are trying to do ...

all maps are different and played differently...bbs really dont want you to get deleted especially with 1/2 a game left ..spotting is everything learn how to do it with out getting your eyes shot out  

tip; your armor is a weapon too.  One that DDs and Cruisers don't have in abundance.

tip; so is your heal.

tip; so is your mere presence if you use it aggressively and angle correctly.

tip; running away at the first sign of a red icon is wasting all of the above.

tip; proper positioning for a BB is not the back of the map... Dead Eye or no Dead Eye.

Edited by JCC45
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Had ring side seats to a 3 Jean Bart cap rush yesterday.    Deadeye didn't help the BB's on the other side.  (I couldn't help much being a short range torp DD with radar around)

 

Crushed them.

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37 minutes ago, arch4random said:

the only back line BBs i see are the ones who have to head that way due to the ineffectiveness of DDs& cls who have no clue how to stop a ship of their own class....BBs dont move up because CLs are either running to the back and in the way or DDs are ..you are given room to roam ...so you can move from one island to another ....BBs dont move up since friendly torps seem to be fired randomly with no purpose other than "  hope i hit something they usually come thru there attitude" remember the "RULE#1 dont fire from behind your allies....bbs need to be back to get shells over islands and mountains ....

so im not moving up at all ....learn to play your ships to their strengths or find the ships that work for your style of play..

tip; get yourself into a good position and let the bbs get into a good position..if you see a bb moving thats what they are trying to do ...

all maps are different and played differently...bbs really dont want you to get deleted especially with 1/2 a game left ..spotting is everything learn how to do it with out getting your eyes shot out  

DD and CL are much more effective with a BB 5-7 km behind them, BB on the back line are a safe position not a good position. Don't get so defensive it makes you look guilty

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2 hours ago, JCC45 said:

tip; your armor is a weapon too.  One that DDs and Cruisers don't have in abundance.

tip; so is your heal.

tip; so is your mere presence if you use it aggressively and angle correctly.

tip; running away at the first sign of a red icon is wasting all of the above.

tip; proper positioning for a BB is not the back of the map... Dead Eye or no Dead Eye.

so your blaming bbs for your poor ship selection

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21 minutes ago, arch4random said:

and why is that?

Because flight time of shell is important, normally you want to be you detection plus the DD in front of you Detection behind at the start of games, this is based on open water in front of you

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2 hours ago, HallaSnackbar said:

FDR supports this message. 

This Message Was Brought To You By The FDR Gang, Which I'm Not Apart Of Because I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH STEEL YET-

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17 minutes ago, arch4random said:

so your blaming bbs for your poor ship selection

Dude that really makes no sense, stop being defensive yo might pick up a thing or two. I can and will screen for you if you are supporting me, IE smoke, spot those dak dak cruisers and screen for torps when they are headed your way.

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I've had some losses already thanks to this.

However, it's not new: we've had sniping BBs and even CRs that are too afraid of getting shot at.

I make it a point not to spot for them. They wanna have targets, well they need to fix their playstyle.

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4 hours ago, vikingno2 said:

This is a plea for the rest of us, just because you have a new skill does not mean simple tactical techniques and practices are now moot. You need to still support your screening forces, got to move up a little its ok, we will appreciated it. You have to learn to hit at mid range before you can hope to hit a long range. Over and over again I get into games where 5 BBs are so far back they are really not "influencing' the battle. You DDs and cruiser will truly thank you. The game paly is just poor right now, due in a large part to the unintended consequences of Dead Eye. The team that is mutually supporting each other will win against a team of Back line BBs that don't push until they are 400 points down and blind.

Last game as an example: It was Sleeping Giant, I was in a Daring. A Shimma ran into the enclosed Cap , I jump into his smoke and followed him in, then was able to gun him down but our Thunderer , Vermont and Conq never moved up to even have guns on the openings. The were too busy on the 2 and 3 row looking for the Dev strike. The other team all push up together. Their BBs turn full broad side to get into the enclosure with no fear at all, I mean why shoot at a BB12k away when you might 3 times out of 10 Dev strike a cruiser at 20k. I got a few torp into them but died.  Ended up a blow out loss with three of our BBs still on 2nd line at end of the game(Mostly full health). Other team won on points. Not really laying blame and I am sure there was something I could have done different. But this keeps happening game after game; been on the winning side quite a bit under the same scenario, no fun there either. You have to at least be a visible threat sometimes.

 

Honestly, blame Wargaming for introducing such an asinine skill condition in the first place. A skill condition tied to your concealment range will only push battleships back further and further. Doubly so on battleships with garbage concealment, like Yamato or Kurfurst.

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2 minutes ago, vikingno2 said:

Because flight time of shell is important, normally you want to be you detection plus the DD in front of you Detection behind at the start of games, this is based on open water in front of you

this puts me in cruiser range....a bb can not protect every body when this close up..thats why a good sniping bb is usually in the back..

i have 30.3km range on my bb... from that distance i see every thing .....but the problem is the spotting ..if you cant see the enemy either can i ....and im not running a bb up close just to spot...when eventually the enemy will do the spotting for me..

cruisers should be able to protect from the range your talking about and followed by a bb...but there are all kinds of scenarios that play out...there isnt a right or wrong .... do this or you lose or do this and you win ...its not the ships its the commanders of those ships..

your clan plays different than that clan...so 

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Yeah I hear you, but hoping to lay a olive branch and show that many of us will work as a team if supported and that Dead Eye is not really that great of a skill in the first place, not bad, but bad in its effects on game play. Its triggering is all wrong IMO.

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I don’t think most players in back realize how their position is detrimental to the team.

I’ve been grinding DDs and the most frustrating players are the ones all the way in back telling me to hunt the enemy DD.  I can’t do it effectively when their cruisers are only a few kilometers away because my BBs aren’t pushing them back.

They think it’s successful because they are still alive and doing damage even all their DDs and cruisers are dead and the caps are lost.

 

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2 hours ago, vikingno2 said:

DD and CL are much more effective with a BB 5-7 km behind them

To which you should append for clarity, "As opposed to 15km". Since some people don't get the point.

8 minutes ago, arch4random said:

this puts me in cruiser range....a bb can not protect every body when this close up..thats why a good sniping bb is usually in the back..

Seems to me you're part of the problem here.

Alright, if there's no other option:

 I had deadeye on my ship in this battle, because the Minnesota can be a little erratic at maximum range. Note, however, the circumstances under which I make all my kills - almost all of my targets die in full view within my concealment range, and for the only exception, an enemy ship was blocking Deadeye. Now imagine what would have happened if I'd tried to fight this battle at arm's length.

It's supposed to make your opening shots more effective as you close to an appropriate range to fight the tactical battle in support of your team-mates; it's not a crutch to excuse your withdrawal to a range at which you cannot be hurt.

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1 minute ago, DM31 said:

I don’t think most players in back realize how their position is detrimental to the team.

I’ve been grinding DDs and the most frustrating players are the ones all the way in back telling me to hunt the enemy DD.  I can’t do it effectively when their cruisers are only a few kilometers away because my BBs aren’t pushing them back.

They think it’s successful because they are still alive and doing damage even all their DDs and cruisers are dead and the caps are lost.

heres a thing...i have played and still play with a few really good dds...they dont run right up fling torps and bug out getting deleted along the way.....what they do is sit out side stay out of their detection range to enemy ships  and spot ...then a bb can open up on the ships spotted ...when the enemy is targeted they start to move and move themselves into the dds torp range alot of the time ...and the dd torps it ...the dd moves but keeps the enemy spotted allowing the bbs to keep firing ...and they stay safe while reloading ..when the advantage is in the good dds favor then he moves in for the cap knowing he is protected ....hope that helps some....and dead eye has nothing to do with this play style.....

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