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SKurj

Why no US T6 prem cruiser?

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Just curious... as to why US is missing a T6 prem cruiser...    or was there one that was pulled or something?  seems like a guaranteed sale at least to the ops crowd  (even if it is mediocre)

 

ops and now i see why!!  the japanese didn't run any tier 6 premium cruisers in ww2 either...  but seriously... neither nation has one.. that sounds like 2 guaranteed easy sales...

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7 minutes ago, SKurj said:

Just curious... as to why US is missing a T6 prem cruiser...    or was there one that was pulled or something?  seems like a guaranteed sale at least to the ops crowd  (even if it is mediocre)

 

ops and now i see why!!  the japanese didn't run any tier 6 premium cruisers in ww2 either...  but seriously... neither nation has one.. that sounds like 2 guaranteed easy sales...

What ships would you think for a Tier 6 premium cruiser in these nations? Japan i would like to see Sakawa, keep her close to Yahagi, just buff the reload make her a real HE Cruiser. 

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18 minutes ago, Azur_Bismarck said:

What ships would you think for a Tier 6 premium cruiser in these nations?

USS Houston, representing the Northampton-class of heavy cruisers.

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1 hour ago, Nevermore135 said:

USS Houston, representing the Northampton-class of heavy cruisers.

I'm not sure that there's enough of a difference between the Northampton and Portland classes to justify having the Indianapolis (a Portland class CA) at tier 7 and a Northampton class CA at tier 6.  The two classes seem VERY similar.  Oh, I suppose that they could fake up some differences, but that's what they'd be ... fake.

 

1 hour ago, SKurj said:

Just curious... as to why US is missing a T6 prem cruiser... 

There aren't enough actual cruiser classes from that time frame that would qualify as a solid tier 6.   Part of the problem is that the USN didn't build all that many cruisers between WW1 and WW2.  And the CAs that were build  after the Pensacolas were few in number and similar in capability.  WG would likely have to just pick one of the Northamptons and stick it at tier 6, despite the fact that the Northamptons were very similar in capability to the succeeding Portland class which appears at tier 7 in the form of the USS Indianapolis.

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Indianapolis is a pretty weak T7 apart from her radar and gun range, though... while the Portlands were a development of the Northamptons, it wouldn't take much tweaking at all to drop a Northampton one tier down.

Or, y'know, WG could always pick the dead easy route and just re-skin Pensacola as her sister ship, Salt Lake City.

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1 hour ago, Nevermore135 said:

USS Houston, representing the Northampton-class of heavy cruisers.

YES, YES, YES, a thousand times over and we would be able to see Houston - Perth divisions.

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33 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I'm not sure that there's enough of a difference between the Northampton and Portland classes to justify having the Indianapolis (a Portland class CA) at tier 7 and a Northampton class CA at tier 6.

Well...

27 minutes ago, Wrath_Of_Deadguy said:

Indianapolis is a pretty weak T7 apart from her radar and gun range, though... while the Portlands were a development of the Northamptons, it wouldn't take much tweaking at all to drop a Northampton one tier down.

^This. For example, to separate her from Indianapolis they could tweak the shell ballistics (Indianapolis has very flat shell arcs for an American cruiser) or consumables (no radar obviously). To distinguish her from Pensacola: perhaps give her decent turret traverse and maybe 19mm plating like most other tier VI cruisers (as well as Indianapolis). There’s a lot for WG to work with.

11 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

YES, YES, YES, a thousand times over and we would be able to see Houston - Perth divisions.

“Still standing watch in Sunda Straits”

Edited by Nevermore135
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1 hour ago, Azur_Bismarck said:

What ships would you think for a Tier 6 premium cruiser in these nations? Japan i would like to see Sakawa, keep her close to Yahagi, just buff the reload make her a real HE Cruiser. 

An Agano would be hard to fit into T6. There was however a planned upgrade to the design.

C44.thumb.png.7d80fb8e80b2ce8831916ae6c860855a.png

Yes that's basically Yahagi with an extra turret.

Though honestly it'd still be on the weak side for a T6 CL. We're talking a Leander with worse armor and a longer hull (ie bigger target and particularly a bigger citadel), without any of the RN CL gimmicks. And your own advantage to compensate are long-range torps....that have terrible firing angles. But then Yahagi is also pretty weak for a T5 CL so that'd be nothing new. For both ships an option to buff them would be added TRB. After all the Agano class did have the same quick-reload boxes as the various IJN DDs that can run TRB. As can clearly be seen in Yahagi's 3D model.

635781115_YahagiTRB.png.148d93b597432707464bbf9a70d61238.png

Another option would be the famous "Prototaka", a stock Furutaka hull with the single 200mm guns replaced by twin 140mm. WG modeled this years ago (might've been all the way back in Beta test) but decided not to use it.

lcxNlV2.jpg

7 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I'm not sure that there's enough of a difference between the Northampton and Portland classes to justify having the Indianapolis (a Portland class CA) at tier 7 and a Northampton class CA at tier 6.  The two classes seem VERY similar.  Oh, I suppose that they could fake up some differences, but that's what they'd be ... fake.

Indianapolis is about 1200 tons heavier than Houston which equates to more HP. She also has significantly better belt armor, 100mm around the machinery spaces (incidentally I'm pretty sure this should've actually been 127mm) and 146mm around the main gun magazines. Houston's would by comparison be only 76mm around the machinery and 95mm around the magazines.

I think Pensacola-like side armor and lack of radar would be more than enough to justify being 1 tier lower.

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13 minutes ago, Lord_Magus said:

An Agano would be hard to fit into T6. There was however a planned upgrade to the design.

C44.thumb.png.7d80fb8e80b2ce8831916ae6c860855a.png

Yes that's basically Yahagi with an extra turret.

WG could also decide to go full Dr. Frankenstein and slap Akizuki’s 100mm turrets on an Agano hull. :cap_rambo:That type of thing seems to be their new MO.

It wouldn’t be historical at all, but I’m sure WG could fit it in at tier VI or VII.

Edited by Nevermore135

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7 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

Still standing watch in Sunda Straits”

What is funny as in odd was the Japanese treated the captured sailors relatively well compared to how some were treated later in the war even as early as Midway because of their fighting against a very stacked deck. The conditions were not very good but they were actually very good by Japanese standards. The Japanese sailors actually apologized when they were turning them over to the army because the army would not see them as the samurai that they were.

 

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Sadly, the Northhamptons are definitely better suited to tier 7 due to their guns if nothing else. The best options for a US and IJN tier 6 premiums are VI Salt Lake City (Pensacola class) and VI Oyodo (Hybrid light cruiser, so think Tone, but tier 6 and with 2x3 155mm guns). 

Edited by Shannon_Lindsey

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1 hour ago, Wrath_Of_Deadguy said:

Indianapolis is a pretty weak T7 apart from her radar and gun range, though... while the Portlands were a development of the Northamptons, it wouldn't take much tweaking at all to drop a Northampton one tier down.

Or, y'know, WG could always pick the dead easy route and just re-skin Pensacola as her sister ship, Salt Lake City.

Doesn't seem all that weak to me.  Her main guns have rather flat shell trajectories and fire some pretty strong AP, and her HE isn't bad either.  If her guns have a  weakness, it's the longish reload for a CA.

1 hour ago, Lord_Magus said:

Indianapolis is about 1200 tons heavier than Houston which equates to more HP. She also has significantly better belt armor, 100mm around the machinery spaces (incidentally I'm pretty sure this should've actually been 127mm) and 146mm around the main gun magazines. Houston's would by comparison be only 76mm around the machinery and 95mm around the magazines.

I think Pensacola-like side armor and lack of radar would be more than enough to justify being 1 tier lower.

Seems like a pretty lame idea for a tier 6 premium CA to me.  But it's not like WG hasn't used some pretty lame excuses for premium ships in the past, such as the Mutsu and the Ashitaka, both stock versions of their class' lead ship.  

As for IJN CL's, the IJN really didn't get into CLs in the same way as other navies. They appear to have envisioned them only as flagships for submarine or destroyer squadrons, not as legitimate cruisers.  And before anyone brings up the 6" armed Mogamis, I think that the IJN simply built those that way to get around treaty restrictions and rearmed them with 8" guns after said treaty was no longer an issue.  Regardless, the 6" armed Mogamis would have been truly legit light cruisers if they'd kept their original armament.

 

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2 hours ago, Crucis said:

Seems like a pretty lame idea for a tier 6 premium CA to me.  But it's not like WG hasn't used some pretty lame excuses for premium ships in the past, such as the Mutsu and the Ashitaka, both stock versions of their class' lead ship.  

You're thinking of Houston as a downtiered Indianapolis but her her historical stats make her more just Pensacola with 3x3 instead of 2x2+2x3 guns.

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I think Houston/Northampton would work fine for a tier 6 CA, assuming it represented a similar ship to Indianapolis, just with no radar and slightly nerfed overall characteristics. I'd certainly prefer that to a Pepsi clone in the form of Salt Lake City; at least the Northampton represents its own class which we don't have properly represented in the game. Indianapolis gets close, but there were some significant differences between the Portlands and their predecessors.

--Helms

 

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