2,137 [UBC] Chain_shot Members 2,280 posts Report post #1 Posted February 13, 2021 He is right about secondary builds not being useful anymore. Definitely a better understanding of the game than what zoup has that's for sure. 6 1 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
6,714 [SIM] SkaerKrow Members 6,281 posts 10,284 battles Report post #2 Posted February 13, 2021 Flamu, that outrage farmer who stopped enjoying this game years ago but is stuck playing it to pay his bills? That Flamu? 2 5 4 3 1 12 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,819 [DRFTR] SKurj Beta Testers 6,069 posts Report post #3 Posted February 13, 2021 have to admit the 2ndary complaints are irrelevant to me... and perhaps many others who never had the cpt points to take advantage of it... hell i don't have many captains that can even spec deadeye properly either :) (maybe a handful of captains with 14-16 pts) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
834 [-AFK-] Depraved_Miscreant Members 1,441 posts 17,910 battles Report post #4 Posted February 13, 2021 LOL Yeah I will be totally taking his advice on how to play this game Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,137 [UBC] Chain_shot Members 2,280 posts Report post #5 Posted February 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said: Flamu, that outrage farmer who stopped enjoying this game years ago but is stuck playing it to pay his bills? That Flamu? Well if you had anything relevant to say you could do the same as he does and pay your bills as well. 13 2 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
438 [TDR] ditka_Fatdog [TDR] Members 1,404 posts 16,552 battles Report post #6 Posted February 14, 2021 I’m amazed anyone watching flamu still plays. He’s knowledgeable without a doubt about this game, but his streams are not entertaining too watch imo, unless you are looking to play the game and find anything negative you can take away from every part of it instead of enjoying the many good parts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,444 [CAAT] SaiIor_Moon Members 4,432 posts 6,757 battles Report post #7 Posted February 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Chain_shot said: He is right about secondary builds not being useful anymore. Definitely a better understanding of the game than what zoup has that's for sure. I mean, whether you like him or not (I personally don't mind Flamu, I haven't really found a reason to dislike him or anything) Flamu IS right in that getting value out of secondaries builds and pushing right now is a HELLUVA lot more difficult to properly execute than just using a Dead Eye build and sniping from long range. Also, he mentions about playing Dead Eye at mid-range, that's what I try to do actually. Of course, that depends on your concealment and also the location of enemy ships, especially DDs slipping into your detection range. So at midrange, you CAN lose Dead Eye pretty easily, although it's far more dynamic play imo. It IS riskier though. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,444 [CAAT] SaiIor_Moon Members 4,432 posts 6,757 battles Report post #8 Posted February 14, 2021 1 hour ago, SKurj said: have to admit the 2ndary complaints are irrelevant to me... and perhaps many others who never had the cpt points to take advantage of it... hell i don't have many captains that can even spec deadeye properly either :) (maybe a handful of captains with 14-16 pts) That's unfortunate to hear that you don't have enough captain points for these builds, but I'm just gonna say, there are MANY people (myself included) who love to brawl and use secondaries for reliable supplementary damage. Unfortunately, due to the fact that secondaries accuracy has fallen drastically with the advent of Update 0.10.0, the only way to actually "brawl" is to basically be mid-range or so and try to use your secondaries as a "proc machine" for the Close Quarters Expert conditional skill, which grants a main battery reload buff. It's not remotely ideal by any means. That said, if you get enough points to try a secondaries build, if you like getting in closer and brawling with enemy ships, I'd urge you to try it out! Now, it's not going to be the BEST build or anything, but give it a shot anyways! : ) For the record, you can have a fully operational Dead Eye build in 14 points, yes. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,819 [DRFTR] SKurj Beta Testers 6,069 posts Report post #9 Posted February 14, 2021 when i first learned of 2ndary builds i was all eager to try them... between all my german bb's and i even bought massa ... a couple weeks before the skill rework... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,444 [CAAT] SaiIor_Moon Members 4,432 posts 6,757 battles Report post #10 Posted February 14, 2021 1 minute ago, SKurj said: when i first learned of 2ndary builds i was all eager to try them... between all my german bb's and i even bought massa ... a couple weeks before the skill rework... Ouch. Well I mean, at least THOSE ships DO have some form of "improved secondaries dispersion", so it DOES help, although even with the full secondaries build, the secondary hit rates are just so so lacking...worse still for Randoms, hit rates drop even further, almost by 10%, roughly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,819 [DRFTR] SKurj Beta Testers 6,069 posts Report post #11 Posted February 14, 2021 not a big deal for me... playing primarily coop i can spec into pretty much any skills i like... and more 2ndary damage won't hurt, deadeye is next to useless in coop afterall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9,512 [WORX] Navalpride33 Members 16,378 posts 21,894 battles Report post #12 Posted February 14, 2021 (edited) Flamu Hates everything Russian... He will take take their money to pay the bills in a heartbeat... Take his opinion with a grain of salt... My take on it.... Secondaries are going to be player controlled soon... That means, every ordnance controlled by the Ai, (like secondaries/AA)... Are going to change. Its coming so prepare... Edited February 14, 2021 by Navalpride33 1 1 1 2 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
989 [5D] megahugenoob Members 863 posts 10,612 battles Report post #13 Posted February 14, 2021 2 hours ago, SkaerKrow said: Flamu, that outrage farmer who stopped enjoying this game years ago but is stuck playing it to pay his bills? That Flamu? Whether you like him or not, his points are valid. People in general need to stop listening to who delivers the message and start listening and looking at the content of the message. I dont care if its Jingles, Mouse, Happa, Flaamu, Sea Lord, Zoup etc... I dont agree with everything any of them say. I do think however if we are going to paint with that broad a brush we should be able to discredit the arguments that they have if you disagree. Truthfully, who thinks that WG has been making good decisions since 8.0? The decision making has been horrid and they have gone further and further away from what made the game successful. Is it a wonder that more and more of the players are angry? I for one hate the management of this game. With every passing day I find myself less and less likely to log in because they keep ruining more and more aspects of this game. Anyhow, Hate the message if you disagree, not the messenger. Even a broken watch is right twice a day. 4 5 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
834 [-AFK-] Depraved_Miscreant Members 1,441 posts 17,910 battles Report post #14 Posted February 14, 2021 35 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said: Flamu Hates everything Russian... He will take take their money to pay the bills in a heartbeat... Take his opinion with a grain of salt... My take on it.... Secondaries are going to be player controlled soon... That means, every ordnance controlled by the Ai, (like secondaries/AA)... Are going to change. Its coming so prepare... do you have an official source or is this just an opinion grounded in nothing? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9,512 [WORX] Navalpride33 Members 16,378 posts 21,894 battles Report post #15 Posted February 14, 2021 Just now, Salvo_Creative said: do you have an official source or is this just an opinion grounded in nothing? NDA, (I am not part of it)... But no one is going to say anything "officially" until the embargo is lifted... As of right now, projects are behind schedule.. These changes are the precursor of the end goal. I also have to keep in mind, some projects are pushed back while others are speed up... For example, if it wasn't for the world situation... The Cpt rework would've happened 6 months ago.. The long term goal is making everything (ordnance, spotter, fighter etc.) Player controlled. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,091 [ARGSY] Sumseaman Members 2,016 posts 6,403 battles Report post #16 Posted February 14, 2021 24 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said: NDA, (I am not part of it)... But no one is going to say anything "officially" until the embargo is lifted... As of right now, projects are behind schedule.. These changes are the precursor of the end goal. I also have to keep in mind, some projects are pushed back while others are speed up... For example, if it wasn't for the world situation... The Cpt rework would've happened 6 months ago.. The long term goal is making everything (ordnance, spotter, fighter etc.) Player controlled. This is interesting news though how would the player control spotter aircraft etc? I'm not being coy just genuinely curious about what seem to be very bold changes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9,512 [WORX] Navalpride33 Members 16,378 posts 21,894 battles Report post #17 Posted February 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Sumseaman said: This is interesting news though how would the player control spotter aircraft etc? I'm not being coy just genuinely curious about what seem to be very bold changes. The test run was with the shipboard TB A/C ( I forgot which non CV ship it is)... I would add, we have unused keyboard space that has potential to expand capabilities... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,444 [CAAT] SaiIor_Moon Members 4,432 posts 6,757 battles Report post #18 Posted February 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said: NDA, (I am not part of it)... But no one is going to say anything "officially" until the embargo is lifted... As of right now, projects are behind schedule.. These changes are the precursor of the end goal. I also have to keep in mind, some projects are pushed back while others are speed up... For example, if it wasn't for the world situation... The Cpt rework would've happened 6 months ago.. The long term goal is making everything (ordnance, spotter, fighter etc.) Player controlled. Unfortunately, we do not have ANY proof that secondaries will be player-controlled, athough that might be interesting, honestly. That being said, the sigma of secondaries would HAVE to be raised from their meager 1.0 rating in that case, otherwise even in the hands of a player, secondaries won't be hitting much at all....especially since the dispersion buff from ISBA is only -35% from -60%. To take this into perspective....Let's look at Alabama (yeah, yeah, I know, it's not optimal) at 10km secondary range: 456m (max dispersion at 10km) 456m - 35% of that value = 296m (this is with full secondary build + Improved Secondary Battery Aiming) 456m -60% of that value = 182.4m (this is with the same full secondary build but with Manual Secondaries value added instead) In short, we have gained literally a ship's length MORE dispersion. 113.6m is LONGER than a Benson-class length-wise!!! (Benson-class is 106.12m in length) That is NOT a small difference. And god help you if that ship is heading towards you bow in (even Yamato's beam/width, being a rather wide ship, is 38.9m, so you can imagine just how inaccurate having a max dispersion of 296m is. You aren't hitting much reliably at 10km, that's for certain. and at 8.5km, it's like....254m max dispersion. Still not reliable enough.) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9,512 [WORX] Navalpride33 Members 16,378 posts 21,894 battles Report post #19 Posted February 14, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said: we do not have ANY proof that secondaries will be player-controlled, Proof from official sources as a WG official... Its not going to happen. (NDA and embargos)... Proof as in the details ? The Meat and potatoes of how its going to work??Not available in public realms. Its only conjecture because what you're looking for is not in the public domain... I can only state, because of Cpt rework being implemented.. That is the numerous changes being done to make the overall end goal.. That end goal, making everything player controlled. Edited February 14, 2021 by Navalpride33 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
624 [BOTO] Aaron_S_Merrill Members 1,492 posts 20,894 battles Report post #20 Posted February 14, 2021 5 hours ago, Salvo_Creative said: LOL Yeah I will be totally taking his advice on how to play this game If you don't care about improving then yeah, just ignore him lol. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
609 [-NOM-] SirPent13 Members 756 posts 12,209 battles Report post #21 Posted February 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Navalpride33 said: Proof from official sources as a WG official... Its not going to happen. (NDA and embargos)... Proof as in the details ? The Meat and potatoes of how its going to work??Not available in public realms. Its only conjecture because what you're looking for is not in the public domain... I can only state, because of Cpt rework being implemented.. That is the numerous changes being done to make the overall end goal.. That end goal, making everything player controlled. I highly doubt this, given that WG took away the ability to control your CV while flying a squadron, as well as gave them auto-consumables. If WG's end goal was to make secondaries user-controlled, they would have done that years ago. Nothing about the rework has moved anything towards this supposed "end goal". 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9,763 [CMFRT] KilljoyCutter [CMFRT] Banned 16,985 posts Report post #22 Posted February 14, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sumseaman said: This is interesting news though how would the player control spotter aircraft etc? I'm not being coy just genuinely curious about what seem to be very bold changes. They already talked about the cat-launched sub-hunting planes being manually controlled, so no shock if they make the mistake of making other cat-launched planes manually controlled too. As for the person you're replying to, don't expect any straight answers. Edited February 14, 2021 by KilljoyCutter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
624 [BOTO] Aaron_S_Merrill Members 1,492 posts 20,894 battles Report post #23 Posted February 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, SirPent13 said: I highly doubt this, given that WG took away the ability to control your CV while flying a squadron, as well as gave them auto-consumables. If WG's end goal was to make secondaries user-controlled, they would have done that years ago. Nothing about the rework has moved anything towards this supposed "end goal". He doesn't have any proof, that's par for the course for him lol. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
757 [UN1] Ranari Members 1,497 posts 4,854 battles Report post #24 Posted February 14, 2021 I think a lot of it has to do with the gigantic shift in the meta. Dead Eye pushes more battleships to the A/J line, and players have been more cautious in general as they learn. Pretty much if you're a battleship that has to get close to your enemy to deal damage (ie, brawlers), you're going to be focused and probably die. It's a rough spot. If we were to take current secondary builds and place them in the pre-rework meta, which I know isn't realistic, I think they'd be great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3,811 [SGSS] jags_domain Members 6,816 posts Report post #25 Posted February 14, 2021 8 hours ago, SkaerKrow said: Flamu, that outrage farmer who stopped enjoying this game years ago but is stuck playing it to pay his bills? That Flamu? Yep Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
