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Mr_Argamas

Lexington deal 100% damage on NC in 1 torpedo drop (3 torpedoes).

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This was with base detonation %: no signal to increase or lower chances. Not having Magazine Modification 1. All base modules (just got the ship). Trying to run a survivability build with a 17 pts captain, nothing special anywhere. Except that I equip "Auxiliary Armaments Modification 1" in slot 1, instead of the traditional "Main Armaments Modification 1". (I like to retain some AA mounts during long games that have lots of HE spam. It kind of work, I still need work convincing myself).

This is supposed to be very uncommon, because detonation mechanic doesn't kick in until you were dealt 25% damage since update 0.7.2 ( source: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Detonation ).
But, the squadron launches torpedoes that hit "consecutively" due to the low speed and relative angle of the ship.
The first two torpedoes did drop my health slight below 75%, and the third torpedo triggered a detonation. Thus, a 100% devstrike for Lexington. And a super early detonation for me, not even 5 minutes into the game.
 


This is the first time something like this happens to me, and the first time am I seeing this in-game as well.
I think this is a bit broken; detonation mechanic that occurs from 100% HP while receiving a single strike, was it really intended to work like this? What do you guys think? Have you seen something like this before?

Please, don't make this post about how CVs are OP; such a rare event can't really make a convincing argument. Although admittedly, this "incident" could point in that direction.

Edited by Mr_Argamas
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well, seeing as thats not a fully upgraded NC, 25% of 53K health isnt that much, and she has the worst TDS of high tier BBs at only 19%, so its quite possible that those torps did do the 25% needed to activate the detonation chance

just did the math, 25% of 53,700, which is the NCs max HP in this video is 13,425, 3 Lexington torps do a max of 19,401 damage, and even adding in the 19% TDS, those torps still do 15,714 damage, more than enough to activate the detonation chance

@Mr_Argamas

you just got VERY unlucky on that drop is all that happened

Edited by tcbaker777

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I detonated a full health Colorado using NC in one salvo. First shell was a cit dropping her below 75 percent and one of the other shells rolled a det.

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12 minutes ago, Mr_Argamas said:

The first two torpedoes did drop my health slight below 75%, and the third torpedo triggered a detonation. 

Unfortunately, your health bar is bugged in the replay and we can’t see the actual torpedo strikes because you are in binocular view. However, if what you describe happened, then it is rare but possible to be detonated.

15 minutes ago, Mr_Argamas said:

Please, don't make this post about how CVs are OP; such a rare event can't really make a convincing argument. Although admittedly, this "incident" could point in that direction.

Nope. This is exceedingly rare for a CV strike and other such RNG-blessed feats are possible with other ships.

 

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10 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

I detonated a full health Colorado using NC in one salvo. First shell was a cit dropping her below 75 percent and one of the other shells rolled a det.

Thanks, this was the information I was looking for. It does happen, with any type of ammo. So it's not a time-related bug/unintended mechanic.  I still feel seeing it happening like that in early game is quite the opposite of "fun and engaging", but I can understand how rare it is.

Thanks to @tcbaker777 as well. I had not do my maths/research, but I knew the first two torpedoes were enough. The health bar is bugged in the replay, but in-game I saw it drop to something like 60% maybe (eyeball judgement, as it happened quickly). Your maths reveal I was about right. Thanks.
 

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Detonations are always rolled atomically. A full salvo on a 100% health roll detonation checks on every hit after the ship gets below 75%, including the hit that lowers the ship below 75%.

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At the 0:24 mark you can see the floating number 14296. The 25% missing for the detonation rule to kick in is 13425 for the 53700HP you got, placing you with that strike within that limit.

My guess is that the first two torpedoes did their damage, then the last one did damage, went through the detonation threshold and detonated you. Still, at full speed and without much info it would indeed look as if you were instantly detonated from full HP

Edited by warheart1992

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"Well done!" to that Lexington driver.
Thanks for sharing.
As others have already pointed out, it was mostly luck combined with the in-game detonation mechanics.  Better luck next time.

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18 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

Detonations are always rolled atomically. A full salvo on a 100% health roll detonation checks on every hit after the ship gets below 75%, including the hit that lowers the ship below 75%.

This is exactly what I understood after reading RipNuN2 comment. It confirmed my suscpicions...Thanks for the precision though. Could it be included to the wiki page? That might be useful. Just copy/pasting your exact comment would be a good addition, IMHO. 

Edited by Mr_Argamas

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20 hours ago, Compassghost said:

...including the hit that lowers the ship below 75%.

(^^^That quote is accurate...my assumption below is incorrect).

No no...the ship needs to be below 75% health before the det roll...the hit that "lowers the ship below 75%" (the way that is worded implies the ship was above 75% before that hit "lowered" it to below 75%) does not get a det roll.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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Torpedoes are the one thing that have a good chance on detonating Battleships.  Most especially so if the torps hit the hull that doesn't have a TDS / Torp Bulge.

 

Long ago my Div mate in his Montana ate a Shima torpedo in the bow and got detonated early in a game.

 

I was playing Musashi and some Tier VII DD came around an island.  I turned away to evade, blasted the DD but I knew he got torps off.  I almost evaded all torpedoes but one hit me in the bow, near the forward turrets but just ahead of my torpedo bulge.  I got detonated.

 

In Co-Op I was playing a Tier VIII CV and attacked a bot Tirpitz.  I attacked with Torpedo Bombers and a torpedo hit the bow where there wasn't a TDS / Torp Bulge.  I detonated it.

 

Torpedoes are very powerful weapons packing a tremendous amount of explosive power.  You can take the the biggest Battleship shells and they had nowhere near the power of a torpedo, most especially the newer torpedoes entering service in the late 1920s, 30s, and beyond.  Even air dropped torpedoes packed a tremendous amount of power.  Torpedoes were so strong that the threat of them being launched by retreating ships is often enough to dissuade a victorious side from pursuit.  Matter of fact, this exact threat was what made the Royal Navy decide against further chasing down the withdrawing German High Seas Fleet after Jutland in WWI.

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9 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

No no...the ship needs to be below 75% health before the det roll...the hit that "lowers the ship below 75%" (the way that is worded implies the ship was above 75% before that hit "lowered" it to below 75%) does not get a det roll.

I am 90% sure the module splash damage roll for detonation occurs after the projectile damage is dealt. @LittleWhiteMouse can perhaps provide more info based on the previous thread. This is the same reason why near miss HE bombs and shells can detonate ships without actually hitting them.

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Did you notice that torp on the right was slightly ahead of the other ones.  Due to that angle that torp hit you first bringing you below 75%.  The others followed immediately and caused the detonation.

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11 hours ago, Compassghost said:

I am 90% sure the module splash damage roll for detonation occurs after the projectile damage is dealt. @LittleWhiteMouse can perhaps provide more info based on the previous thread. This is the same reason why near miss HE bombs and shells can detonate ships without actually hitting them.

Correct.  The order for detonation rolls is:

  1. Damage is applied to ship's health.
  2. Damage is applied to modules (magazine).
  3. Critical hit (detonation) checks are made against the adjusted health of the ship / module.
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14 hours ago, Mr_Argamas said:

This was with base detonation %: no signal to increase or lower chances. Not having Magazine Modification 1. All base modules (just got the ship). Trying to run a survivability build with a 17 pts captain, nothing special anywhere. Except that I equip "Auxiliary Armaments Modification 1" in slot 1, instead of the traditional "Main Armaments Modification 1". (I like to retain some AA mounts during long games that have lots of HE spam. It kind of work, I still need work convincing myself).

This is supposed to be very uncommon, because detonation mechanic doesn't kick in until you were dealt 25% damage since update 0.7.2 ( source: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Detonation ).
But, the squadron launches torpedoes that hit "consecutively" due to the low speed and relative angle of the ship.
The first two torpedoes did drop my health slight below 75%, and the third torpedo triggered a detonation. Thus, a 100% devstrike for Lexington. And a super early detonation for me, not even 5 minutes into the game.
 


This is the first time something like this happens to me, and the first time am I seeing this in-game as well.
I think this is a bit broken; detonation mechanic that occurs from 100% HP while receiving a single strike, was it really intended to work like this? What do you guys think? Have you seen something like this before?

Please, don't make this post about how CVs are OP; such a rare event can't really make a convincing argument. Although admittedly, this "incident" could point in that direction.

If anything this shows that speccing into aa is a complete waste of time, points, and credits.

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16 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

No no...the ship needs to be below 75% health before the det roll...the hit that "lowers the ship below 75%" (the way that is worded implies the ship was above 75% before that hit "lowered" it to below 75%) does not get a det roll.

In reality, the Detonation check happens everytime a shell or torpedo strike reach the magazine area. But if you are above 75% the detonation doesn't happen. Programming that is easier than simply checking the HP before the detonation roll.

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Interesting.

I've played a fair few battles in BBs (~4K) and been around since open beta, and for the first time ever in a BB, got detonated by a torpedo last night.

About half health in a Queen Elizabeth.  Ranger came in and dropped torps.  Took two torps, one in the back in the torpedo protection area that did a little of damage, but then one hit the front, in front of the torpedo protection belt, well ahead of the forward turret.  

Kaboom.  Got 10 "Don't Blow Me Up, Bro" signals, and a bit of curiosity about whether something may have recently changed. 

Edited by joel9507

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OOF!!!!  

atomic-mushroom-cloud-explosion-2-2.gif

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1 hour ago, joel9507 said:

Interesting.

I've played a fair few battles in BBs (~4K) and been around since open beta, and for the first time ever in a BB, got detonated by a torpedo last night.

About half health in a Queen Elizabeth.  Ranger came in and dropped torps.  Took two torps, one in the back in the torpedo protection area that did a little of damage, but then one hit the front, in front of the torpedo protection belt, well ahead of the forward turret.  

Kaboom.  Got 10 "Don't Blow Me Up, Bro" signals, and a bit of curiosity about whether something may have recently changed. 

Torps (like HE rounds) have a splash damage effect in regards to incapacitating stuff.

Less likely (but still possible) to incapacitate stuff on deck but engines & rudders quite frequently get incapacitated by them & in this case it got to the magazine.

7 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Correct.  The order for detonation rolls is:

  1. Damage is applied to ship's health.
  2. Damage is applied to modules (magazine).
  3. Critical hit (detonation) checks are made against the adjusted health of the ship / module.

I thought the whole point was so ships couldn't be detonated from a 1st round (not a whole volley mind you but at least the 1st round)...but I have also occasionally heard it was just changed so DDs couldn't detonate a BB w/just it's guns on the 1st round (which used to happen occasionally & I never doubted that being the reason for the change)...

Always thought the latter group was mistaken (in thinking it was just intended for the DD/BB scenario) though & that all ships got a 1 time assured pass on detonations no matter what the ordinance.

Guess it's a good thing it hasn't occured to me so I never thought to consider it differently I guess.

(Guess I'll edit my mis-info above...Thanx for clarifying...& Thanx especially for all the data mining you do to clarify all this crap).

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Yeah really rare for this to happen. I don't think detonations should be allowed but here we are

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3 hours ago, joel9507 said:

a bit of curiosity about whether something may have recently changed. 

Nope, no change.  It's been as Ms. Mouse states since they established the current detonation rules in the deeps of time.  Always fly your Juliet Charlie signals.

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22 hours ago, Mr_Argamas said:

This was with base detonation %: no signal to increase or lower chances. Not having Magazine Modification 1. All base modules (just got the ship). Trying to run a survivability build with a 17 pts captain, nothing special anywhere. Except that I equip "Auxiliary Armaments Modification 1" in slot 1, instead of the traditional "Main Armaments Modification 1". (I like to retain some AA mounts during long games that have lots of HE spam. It kind of work, I still need work convincing myself).

This is supposed to be very uncommon, because detonation mechanic doesn't kick in until you were dealt 25% damage since update 0.7.2 ( source: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Detonation ).
But, the squadron launches torpedoes that hit "consecutively" due to the low speed and relative angle of the ship.
The first two torpedoes did drop my health slight below 75%, and the third torpedo triggered a detonation. Thus, a 100% devstrike for Lexington. And a super early detonation for me, not even 5 minutes into the game.
 


This is the first time something like this happens to me, and the first time am I seeing this in-game as well.
I think this is a bit broken; detonation mechanic that occurs from 100% HP while receiving a single strike, was it really intended to work like this? What do you guys think? Have you seen something like this before?

Please, don't make this post about how CVs are OP; such a rare event can't really make a convincing argument. Although admittedly, this "incident" could point in that direction.

Needless to say that pilot got drinks on the house and the captain got a lotto ticket.

Detonations suck.

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21 hours ago, Compassghost said:

I am 90% sure the module splash damage roll for detonation occurs after the projectile damage is dealt. @LittleWhiteMouse can perhaps provide more info based on the previous thread. This is the same reason why near miss HE bombs and shells can detonate ships without actually hitting them.

And knock out moduals.

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7 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

I thought the whole point was so ships couldn't be detonated from a 1st round (not a whole volley mind you but at least the 1st round)...but I have also occasionally heard it was just changed so DDs couldn't detonate a BB w/just it's guns on the 1st round (which used to happen occasionally & I never doubted that being the reason for the change)...

Always thought the latter group was mistaken (in thinking it was just intended for the DD/BB scenario) though & that all ships got a 1 time assured pass on detonations no matter what the ordinance.

Guess it's a good thing it hasn't occured to me so I never thought to consider it differently I guess.

(Guess I'll edit my mis-info above...Thanx for clarifying...& Thanx especially for all the data mining you do to clarify all this crap).

That was the point.  However, if you get hit by an attack of sufficient size, that can still dip you below the damage-threshold needed to make your magazines undergo a horrendous space kablooie.  This could be argued to be a "feature" of large HE attacks, such as Royal Navy battleship HE, Japanese destroyer torpedoes and American (and some British) HE bombs.

Some points:

  • Battleship magazines are proof against detonations from most HE attacks including bombs, rockets and shells.  Even if you smack a battleship with Thunderer's 457mm HE shells, they cannot damage the magazines.  Torpedoes are normally the only HE attack that can damage battleship magazines. The only exception to this are a type of bug called a model-break, where the geometry of a ship temporarily bugs out and allows a shell in where it's not supposed to be.  This typically happens during high-speed turns.  This is what famously resulted in a North Carolina getting detonated by a destroyer HE shell that made the rounds over on Reddit and Forums.
     
  •  Detonations are a numbers game.  Normally, most hits to the magazine have only 1% chance to cause a detonation.  It isn't until the magazines lose 20% of their health that the number begins to shift, capping out at a maximum of 10% normally (barring the interaction of signals).  Magazines, unlike guns and torpedo mounts, do not automatically go off when they reach zero health, they just provide the maximum (10%) chance to detonate on each subsequent hit.   This is why bigger hits aren't necessarily better for causing detonations.  Yes, they may deplete the magazine's hit points faster (giving you a higher-chance to detonate) but multiple damaging hits each get a roll, so multiple rolls are often better than a single meaty hit.
     
  • Torpedoes are so good at causing detonations because not only are they all but guaranteed to strike magazines -- they have a larger blast radius and they deal a TON of module damage when they do hit.

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