HMS Tiger'59 and KMS Weimar...just lolz.....

[Bandi73]

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/120

So, HMS Tiger with 4 (yes four!!) main guns, (not turrets, guns in 2x2, layout) and no torps, but with smoke and radar (10 km) at T8.Meaning that it can see T10. Erm.....what is this?

KMS Weimar at T7 with 12x150 mm guns, 4X3 torpedo tubes, hydro, DFAA, and.....engine boost. Lolz. Admittedly this looks interesting, but...engine boost? Come on Weegee  how about some creativity?The urge to flood the game with premiums is getting a lil bit silly. 

[WarStore]

True. I want exhaust smoke with 2m duration on the Weimainz.

[ObiphanKenobi]

Weegee cant just please everyone, especially the one that had history of complain for the sack of complaining .........

[SkaerKrow]

It honestly looks like Weimar is absorbing Tiger in utero, resulting in one strong ship and another one that's stunted and frail.

[Bandi73]

24 minutes ago, ObiphanKenobi said:

Weegee cant just please everyone, especially the one that had history of complain for the sack of complaining .........

Admittedly true. In the first case. But, what can I say......just dodge? Or perhaps git gud? Come on, you have to admit that the Tiger is.....yeah. Even Minia said  that she is looking forward for the......missile armament, lol. At T7 it would be...quite interesting, perhaps with less radar range. But at T8? With the current ...skillz?? 

[Nevermore135]

42 minutes ago, Bandi73 said:

So, HMS Tiger with 4 (yes four!!) main guns, (not turrets, guns in 2x2, layout) and no torps, but with smoke and radar (10 km) at T8.Meaning that it can see T10. Erm.....what is this?

A quick comparison to Edinburgh:

Edinburgh has 20% more DPM (Tiger has a 3.2s reload and slightly stronger shells), torpedoes, and hydro.

Tiger has DFAA and gets a longer range radar (10km) in a separate slot from the smoke.

Tiger looks to be a monstrous DD hunter, and the only thing I see that makes me raise an eyebrow is the combination of smoke without hydro. Give players the option to swap between hydro and DFAA like most cruisers and I think she would be quite strong in the right roles.

[Bandi73]

14 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

Compare her to Edinburgh:

Edinburgh has 20% more DPM (Tiger has a 3.2s reload and slightly stronger shells), torpedoes, and hydro.

Tiger has DFAA and gets a longer range radar (10km) in a separate slot from the smoke.

Tiger looks to be a monstrous DD hunter, and the only thing I see that makes me raise an eyebrow is the combination of smoke without hydro. Give players the option to swap between hydro and DFAA like most cruisers and I think she would be quite strong.

Well, Rn Cl's are my main line so......I know. That's the thing there are a good number of things that could have been done to balance the ship. But the main issue is the number of turrets and guns. What happens when they will be knocked out? And they will be. Add to that the current skills (or lack of them) and......yes.

Edit: Preventive maintenance should be mandatory on this ship, only ...it can't be.

[mofton]

Tiger is one thing, but Weimar's "let's get a Munchen and give it 50% more guns and an engine boost" is quite the head scratcher. 

[Nevermore135]

1 minute ago, Bandi73 said:

But the main issue is the number of turrets and guns. What happens when they will be knocked out? And they will be. Add to that the current skills (or lack of them) and......yes.

*Shrug* Perhaps, but at the same time we don’t have all the stats. Things like module HP are very easy to manipulate, and WG has done so before. For example, IIRC, AL Sov. Rossiya’s main battery turrets are much more durable than the identical turrets on Sov. Soyuz.

I’m annoyed that WG chose to name her “Tiger’59,” though. The only other HMS Tiger in the time period covered by the game is the 1913 CC, which will probably never be in game given WGs approach of ignoring lower tiers. It’s cruel to give naive players false hope.

[Bandi73]

2 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

... WG chose to name her “Tiger’59,” though. 

Good catch, I edited the title.

2 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

*Shrug* Perhaps, but at the same time we don’t have all the stats. Things like module HP are very easy to manipulate, and WG has done so before. For example, IIRC, AL Sov. Rossiya’s main battery turrets are much more durable than the identical turrets on Sov. Soyuz.

Yes, but....they are actually Mino turrets. They can't make them invulnerable.

2 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

I’m annoyed that WG chose to name her “Tiger’59,” though. The only other HMS Tiger in the time period covered by the game is the 1913 CC, which will probably never be in game given WGs approach of ignoring lower tiers. It’s cruel to give naive players false hope.

That's the thing. There are soo many ships that could be introduced. The dutch ones, real battle cruisers,  Averoff..They even could make some specific game modes for lower tiers without much fuss. But, no they have a ....vision.

[ditka_Fatdog]

Ahh yes, the classic every ship and line release is trash post

[shinytrashcan]

57 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

Tiger looks to be a monstrous DD hunter, and the only thing I see that makes me raise an eyebrow is the combination of smoke without hydro. Give players the option to swap between hydro and DFAA like most cruisers and I think she would be quite strong in the right roles.

I think they can't really do that. Just imagine having a better original Belfast at T8, just without HE.

Right now, Tiger'59 would have a 30s 10km radar with a minimum concealment of about 9.2km, which is a pretty good stealth radar. Her DPM should still be good enough to hurt most DDs, and the 15.6km range isn't exceptional, but not really low, either. I mean, that is DM range and similar to many other CLs iirc. Further, she has a smoke. So what you could do is follow a DD at a few km distance so you are spotted at about the same time, smoke as soon as you are detected and just radar for vision before leaving. Honestly, I think the combination of smoke and radar is just broken. With hydro and smoke there was always longer range radar that could counter you, but if you already have decent radar and smoke at T8, what is gonna counter that?

Also, it will be interesting to see whether the heal is a regular or Edinburgh heal.

Edit: I think this ship could be pretty strong, or at least pretty toxic to play against with the Smoke/Radar combo.

[KilljoyCutter]

A German cruiser with a "booster" gimmick.  

No thanks. 

Not sure why anyone would spend money on cruisers right now, anyway. 

 

[RainbowFartingUnicorn]

1 hour ago, Nevermore135 said:

A quick comparison to Edinburgh:

Edinburgh has 20% more DPM (Tiger has a 3.2s reload and slightly stronger shells), torpedoes, and hydro.

Tiger has DFAA and gets a longer range radar (10km) in a separate slot from the smoke.

Tiger looks to be a monstrous DD hunter, and the only thing I see that makes me raise an eyebrow is the combination of smoke without hydro. Give players the option to swap between hydro and DFAA like most cruisers and I think she would be quite strong in the right roles.

My primary concern there is that Tiger '59's  firing angles are probably real bad, so she will have to show a lot of broadside to get both turrets working, and her DPM is not so great. Without hydro she'll be highly susceptible to being torpedoed in smoke.

[Nevermore135]

25 minutes ago, shinytrashcan said:

Honestly, I think the combination of smoke and radar is just broken. With hydro and smoke there was always longer range radar that could counter you, but if you already have decent radar and smoke at T8, what is gonna counter that?

I would agree with you, if not for the lack of torpedos and HE. I foresee lots of Tiger’s sitting in smoke being sunk by volleys of blind-fired torpedos from their supposed prey. I suppose it will also come down to how she handles. If she has typical RN CL acceleration it might not be that great of an issue. I also don’t think the smoke + radar combo is nearly as powerful as you go up the tiers and you encounter more and more radar yourself.

10 minutes ago, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

Without hydro she'll be highly susceptible to being torpedoed in smoke.

^This guy gets it. 

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Weimar should be fine.  I know the Engine Boost sounds weird, but it's actually a good thing.  Once you get past Tier VI, German Cruisers lose agility, and they never were the fastest.

 

Mainz in Tier VIII is great but agility isn't her thing.

 

Edit:  The one misgiving I have with her is her 15.4km gun range.  That's fine if fighting mid tier threats but against High Tier, that's going to be a big issue.  German CA Yorck this same tier has 17.32km gun range.  Even Premium German CL Munchen in this same tier has better range (16.61km), and she lobs shells over islands like USN CLs do.

[Morte_DeMeat]

A Tiger'59 cruiser...... hmmm, like a Friesland DD with a citadel and no Hydro??

[Pugilistic]

Tiger's guns were DP autoloaders with a 3-4 second reload. Her 6 x 3' secondaries will probably be AA only, but they each had a ROF of 90-120 rounds per minute. 

So thats kind of a 6" gun super - Smaland. Her AA would be a resumption of the no-fly zone cruiser due to the 3" guns virtually being autocannon and each mount having its own radar director, but of course WG wont allow that. 

And it was a real ship laid down during WWII. 

[Burnsy]

1 hour ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Not sure why anyone would spend money on cruisers right now, anyway. 

 

Everytime I see posts like this, I just up and buy the thing. Half way just because "you said I shouldn't...so Ima do it now".  So far I am 2 for 2 over the past few weeks.  I can't actually buy anything related to this right yet though :(. 

Yall are great for WG sales.  They should at least give you a cut.

[ThomasFranz67]

Definitely going to get Weimar when She gets released.

[Crucis]

2 hours ago, mofton said:

Tiger is one thing, but Weimar's "let's get a Munchen and give it 50% more guns and an engine boost" is quite the head scratcher. 

Agree 100%, mofton.  The Weimar makes no sense to me, and that's not really a criticism of the Weimar, per se. I just don't see the point to her.  It seems to me that a tier 7 German premium HEAVY cruiser would have made more sense at this point.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

1 hour ago, Nevermore135 said:

^This guy gets it. 

By reflex, I was about to post that the lack of Hydro could be compensated by Vigilance.  But then I double checked.  That would have been true in the old skill system, but the Rebork removed Vigilance from Cruiser Skill access.

[mofton]

17 minutes ago, Pugilistic said:

Tiger's guns were DP autoloaders with a 3-4 second reload. Her 6 x 3' secondaries will probably be AA only, but they each had a ROF of 90-120 rounds per minute. 

So thats kind of a 6" gun super - Smaland. Her IRL AA would be a resumption of the no-fly zone cruiser due to the 3" guns virtually being autocannon and each mount having its own radar director, but of course WG wont allow that. 

And it was a real ship laid down during WWII. 

Same 6in and 3in guns as Minotaur, but 2/5 of the 6in and 3/8 of the 3in guns.

Given Minotaur gets 133 DPS from the 6in's, and 507 DPS on the 3in's, you'd expect about 53 and 190 DPS. Compared to other T8 cruisers it's pretty unremarkable, if WG scale it accordingly. As you say an IRL potential no-fly zone, but in game... meh.

[Crucis]

52 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Weimar should be fine.  I know the Engine Boost sounds weird, but it's actually a good thing.  Once you get past Tier VI, German Cruisers lose agility, and they never were the fastest.

Mainz in Tier VIII is great but agility isn't her thing.

The tier 7 Munchen seems pretty quick and agile (well, at least quick) to me.

 

22 minutes ago, Pugilistic said:

Tiger's guns were DP autoloaders with a 3-4 second reload. Her 6 x 3' secondaries will probably be AA only, but they each had a ROF of 90-120 rounds per minute. 

So thats kind of a 6" gun super - Smaland. Her IRL AA would be a resumption of the no-fly zone cruiser due to the 3" guns virtually being autocannon and each mount having its own radar director, but of course WG wont allow that. 

And it was a real ship laid down during WWII. 

I was about comment about her having 6" guns and how that limits her usage of the HE/SAP skill.  But then I remember that that skill has a penalty for any ship with guns larger than 149mm, which the Tiger'59 does have.

Honestly, I think that it's possible that the Tiger might be interesting.  At the same time, I'm always a smidge wary of smoke firing ships that fire "too quickly" because the fast RoF may make them easier to track in their smoke.

 

 

[Bandi73]

1 hour ago, ditka_Fatdog said:

Ahh yes, the classic every ship and line release is trash post

When there are 492 knows bugs? And some which are not? You bet. Besides that discussing diverse aspects of the ships from different povs I regard as being actually good and informative. And the ships are not trash, but highly questionable.