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YouSatInGum

WG, you just took away the one thing I like most about the new ranked format

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I know I'm a couple days late to ßitch about this....BUT

This lasts ranked reason, I enjoyed Bronze league the most....BY FAR!!!

The reason why is it is T8.... or was.  T8 is a pretty well balanced tier while not having too many OP then pulled ships.  I also think it strikes a fun balance between offensive capability while not having too much that makes small mistakes fatal like in T10. However,  In normal random games both T8 and T7 are known to get the worst matches on average.  In fact, I've measured over a 130 something games and T8 gets bottom tier 43% of the time while getting top tier or same tier games much much less often.

This last ranked season in bronze solved that giving us same tier matching every time.  As a cruiser main, the smaller teams are another bonus.  The new ranked has it's issues for sure, but this was one of the few things I really liked.  Now with it becoming Tier 8/9 there won't be much of a reason to bring any 8's.  Bringing a non-healing cruiser against healing cruisers is silly.   In all the feedback to WG, I said that I miss T7 ships being a part of ranked, but this a step in the wrong direction with T9 and T10 ships being the most viable tiers now.

I really don't understand what they are trying to do here???

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20 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

Since tier 8s are matched against other tier 8s, I don’t see the big deal.

Would you choose to be bottom tier on purpose?

 

Of course there are exceptions... like Kita is just as good as Harugumo, but in general, T9 cruisers are quite a bit better than T8 ones.  This is especially true since it will be a parade of Alaska's and Musashi's.

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33 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

I know I'm a couple days late to ßitch about this....BUT

This lasts ranked reason, I enjoyed Bronze league the most....BY FAR!!!

The reason why is it is T8.... or was.  T8 is a pretty well balanced tier while not having too many OP then pulled ships.  I also think it strikes a fun balance between offensive capability while not having too much that makes small mistakes fatal like in T10. However,  In normal random games both T8 and T7 are known to get the worst matches on average.  In fact, I've measured over a 130 something games and T8 gets bottom tier 43% of the time while getting top tier or same tier games much much less often.

This last ranked season in bronze solved that giving us same tier matching every time.  As a cruiser main, the smaller teams are another bonus.  The new ranked has it's issues for sure, but this was one of the few things I really liked.  Now with it becoming Tier 8/9 there won't be much of a reason to bring any 8's.  Bringing a non-healing cruiser against healing cruisers is silly.   In all the feedback to WG, I said that I miss T7 ships being a part of ranked, but this a step in the wrong direction with T9 and T10 ships being the most viable tiers now.

I really don't understand what they are trying to do here???

T8 CAs were a bad choice most of the time in the last season as well because of the slow(ish) RoF and lack of heals. At least at T9 tech tree CAs don't have to worry so much about every lucky fire or HE hit. 

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28 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

Would you choose to be bottom tier on purpose?

If I want to play a tier 8 ship (which I will as many of my favorite ships are tier 8), then yes, I will. Not only will I earn more XP, but taking a tier 8 means the red team also has a corresponding tier 8 ship. +1 MM is no problem in random battles, and it is similarly not an issue in ranked. In fact, when WG first tested this with combined tier 9/10 ranked sprints a while back, I played almost exclusively tier 9s.

28 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

Of course there are exceptions... like Kita is just as good as Harugumo, but in general, T9 cruisers are quite a bit better than T8 ones.  This is especially true since it will be a parade of Alaska's and Musashi's.

Why are you comparing your hypothetical tier 8 cruiser to a tier 9 cruiser? You should compare it to the tier 8 cruiser on the other team.

Regardless, I think you are attaching way too much importance to tier. A well-played Baltimore is a much bigger boon for a team than an adequately (or worse, poorly) played Alaska, especially if the captain of the opposing tier 8 cruiser is a poor player or doesn’t understand how to play bottom tier and gets quickly deleted.

Edited by Nevermore135
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22 minutes ago, VeatherVitch said:

T8 CAs were a bad choice most of the time in the last season as well because of the slow(ish) RoF and lack of heals. At least at T9 tech tree CAs don't have to worry so much about every lucky fire or HE hit. 

I played almost exclusively cruisers last season with a near 65% win rate. Stayed in Bronze intentionally to grind my tier VIIIs: Baltimore, Tallinn, and Mogami, and after the rework dropped played almost exclusively Hipper, Mainz, and Prinz Eugen to accumulate ECXP. :Smile_teethhappy:

Also, I worry about the AP much more than the HE.

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1 hour ago, YouSatInGum said:

I really don't understand what they are trying to do here???

You are not the only one, mate  :Smile-angry:

 

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1 hour ago, Nevermore135 said:

Since tier 8s are matched against other tier 8s, I don’t see the big deal.

The big deal is even if you are paired against aT8, probably the rest of the team will be T9 ships with awful big guns, heals, etc. The goofy relaxed time of carrying games in Amalfi or Albemarle are probably over.

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3 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

The big deal is even if you are paired against aT8, probably the rest of the team will be T9 ships with awful big guns, heals, etc. The goofy relaxed time of carrying games in Amalfi or Albemarle are probably over.

And the rest of your team is also “T9 ships with awful big guns, heals, etc.” Once again, I fail to see the issue. Fighting against ships one tier higher is nothing new.

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39 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

And the rest of your team is also “T9 ships with awful big guns, heals, etc.” Once again, I fail to see the issue. Fighting against ships one tier higher is nothing new.

Well,what would you bring the Edin or the Neptune?

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1 hour ago, Nevermore135 said:

If I want to play a tier 8 ship (which I will as many of my favorite ships are tier 8), then yes, I will. Not only will I earn more XP, but taking a tier 8 means the red team also has a corresponding tier 8 ship. +1 MM is no problem in random battles, and it is similarly not an issue in ranked. In fact, when WG first tested this with combined tier 9/10 ranked sprints a while back, I played almost exclusively tier 9s.

Why are you comparing your hypothetical tier 8 cruiser to a tier 9 cruiser? You should compare it to the tier 8 cruiser on the other team.

Regardless, I think you are attaching way too much importance to tier. A well-played Baltimore is a much bigger boon for a team than an adequately (or worse, poorly) played Alaska, especially if the captain of the opposing tier 8 cruiser is a poor player or doesn’t understand how to play bottom tier and gets quickly deleted

......And the rest of your team is also “T9 ships with awful big guns, heals, etc.” Once again, I fail to see the issue. Fighting against ships one tier higher is nothing new.

 

You are sorta missing my original point.  It's not that one team has some advantage....never said that.

T8 is a fun tier but it suffers from crappy Matchmaking in randoms.   Bronze last season was a welcome relief from that....and I was very successful running cruisers even with 3 BB most matches.

Well, its back to crappy MM in randoms for my T8 boats.  At least I'm not bottom tier 25% of the time....versus 100% of time in ranked now.

...and what about T7 or T6 boats?  Are we to never see them in ranked again?

Edited by YouSatInGum

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1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

You are not the only one, mate  :Smile-angry:

 

WG has consistently mixed things up from season to season with clan brawls. I think it’s food for the spreadsheet that tells them what mix works best. 

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1 minute ago, Bandi73 said:

Well,what would you bring the Edin or the Neptune?

Whichever one I enjoyed playing more.

I’ll probably play my Buffalo over my Baltimore, but that’s only because I’m grinding the former and want it done ASAP. If I wanted to bring a German cruiser, I would bring any of the three tier 8s over Roon. If I wanted to bring a Soviet cruiser, I would also bring Tallinn instead of Riga. I doubt I will play Japanese cruisers, but Mogami would also be my choice over Ibuki.

It’s not just about your hypothetical 1-on-1 matchup vs. any given ship on the enemy team, either. You also have to consider how much more you will contribute than your opposite number. I.e. if I am confident in my level of skill and ability to contribute to victory at bottom (-1) tier, the tier 8 ship on the other team is going to be a much bigger detriment to his team than I will potentially be. If I’m bringing a ship I am comfortable and skilled with, I am likely giving my team a net advantage by doing so.

6 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

You are sorta missing my original point.

T8 is a fun tier but it suffers from crappy Matchmaking.   Bronze last season was a welcome relief from that....and I was very successful running cruisers even with 3 BB most matches.

 Well, its back to crappy MM in randoms for my T8 boats

No, I didn’t miss your point, I just fundamentally disagree with you. IMO, tier 8 does just fine against tier 9. This is especially true in regards to cruisers, as most of the tier 9s are otherwise pretty mediocre improvements over their tier 8 counterparts because of the addition of the slot 6 module and RP. For example, take away those features on Buffalo or Seattle and you’d be hard-pressed to find someone who considers them better ships than Baltimore or Cleveland. In fact, even with those features I consider Seattle to be inferior, and while I haven’t played her nearly as much I’m leaning the same way in regards to Buffalo.

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would not surprise me if the BRONZE LEAGUE T8-T9 is a miss print. otherwise why bother even bringing T8s into this ...all you will hear the whole time is how unfair being lower tier is ...but who knows  maybe they want all those T9 premium to have something to farm...:Smile-_tongue:

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1 hour ago, Nevermore135 said:

And the rest of your team is also “T9 ships with awful big guns, heals, etc.” Once again, I fail to see the issue. Fighting against ships one tier higher is nothing new.

Look, I have absolutely no issues being undertiered, that's kinda my thing in Randoms, T8 is getting a ridiculous number of T10 matches anyway...

The point is homogenous tier Ranked was a different setup, a different game experience, it was really fun because you could queue with any ship you wanted and have a fair fighting chance. The only ship that was a magnitude higher in threat level was the Massachussets, but not really out of the park. There was an amazing variety of line ups, I think I saw every possible ship in there, I used 9 different ships and was planning on using some more but ran out of season.

With the mixed tier thing, the playing field becomes muddier, now you have 510 and 457 mm guns able to overmatch anything they face at T8, now you have BBs faster than many cruisers, able to run them down at will, you'll need to deal with cruisers and supercruisers able to outlast you just because they heal. A lot of the silly, fun stuff you could pull during last season, now becomes plain suicidal, the dynamic becomes "serious" again as you will be guaranteed undertiered every single match. Forget about variety of line ups, it will be the same stupid OP premiums that WG is pushing/pushed out of the store, over and over again. If last season was Massa fest, this one will be Musashi/Georgia/JB/Alaska/Pommern.

The point is about having fun, full T8 line up was a lot of fun precisely because it was that, homogenous leveled playing field. Now is just another version of Randoms but worse, in case you intend to play T8. Of course, if you intend to play that shiny Georgia you just bought, it will be heaven for you. That's one for all the guys that say WG doesn't deliver for their customers, here... T9 playground for you to play and enjoy your premiums.

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2 hours ago, Nevermore135 said:

Whichever one I enjoyed playing more.

That's a very good point.

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4 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

Would you choose to be bottom tier on purpose?

 

Of course there are exceptions... like Kita is just as good as Harugumo, but in general, T9 cruisers are quite a bit better than T8 ones.  This is especially true since it will be a parade of Alaska's and Musashi's.

And that's when they strike by saying no more Alaska's and no more Musashis in ranked. Battles are limited too these ships only as their counterparts are too popular. ..

Oh weegee you still so silly.:Smile_amazed:

 

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On 2/11/2021 at 10:53 PM, ArIskandir said:

Look, I have absolutely no issues being undertiered, that's kinda my thing in Randoms, T8 is getting a ridiculous number of T10 matches anyway...

The point is homogenous tier Ranked was a different setup, a different game experience, it was really fun because you could queue with any ship you wanted and have a fair fighting chance. The only ship that was a magnitude higher in threat level was the Massachussets, but not really out of the park. There was an amazing variety of line ups, I think I saw every possible ship in there, I used 9 different ships and was planning on using some more but ran out of season.

With the mixed tier thing, the playing field becomes muddier, now you have 510 and 457 mm guns able to overmatch anything they face at T8, now you have BBs faster than many cruisers, able to run them down at will, you'll need to deal with cruisers and supercruisers able to outlast you just because they heal. A lot of the silly, fun stuff you could pull during last season, now becomes plain suicidal, the dynamic becomes "serious" again as you will be guaranteed undertiered every single match. Forget about variety of line ups, it will be the same stupid OP premiums that WG is pushing/pushed out of the store, over and over again. If last season was Massa fest, this one will be Musashi/Georgia/JB/Alaska/Pommern.

The point is about having fun, full T8 line up was a lot of fun precisely because it was that, homogenous leveled playing field. Now is just another version of Randoms but worse, in case you intend to play T8. Of course, if you intend to play that shiny Georgia you just bought, it will be heaven for you. That's one for all the guys that say WG doesn't deliver for their customers, here... T9 playground for you to play and enjoy your premiums.

You explained it better than I did.

On 2/11/2021 at 9:58 PM, Nevermore135 said:

No, I didn’t miss your point, I just fundamentally disagree with you. IMO, tier 8 does just fine against tier 9. This is especially true in regards to cruisers, as most of the tier 9s are otherwise pretty mediocre improvements over their tier 8 counterparts because of the addition of the slot 6 module and RP. For example, take away those features on Buffalo or Seattle and you’d be hard-pressed to find someone who considers them better ships than Baltimore or Cleveland. In fact, even with those features I consider Seattle to be inferior, and while I haven’t played her nearly as much I’m leaning the same way in regards to Buffalo.

Apparently you are.  I'm not complaining about how effective T8 are against T9.  While most T8 cruisers are inferior to their T9 brethren (mostly because of healing ability), you are right in that a well played T8 can do just fine bottom tier.  But no... the point is that the last season of ranked gave us an option of having all T8 matchmaking which is quite rare in randoms (around 10% of games in my 120 game sample in Mainz that I logged).  All T8 games change the dynamics of the strategy quite a bit where you can play much more aggressive.  Bottom tier, you have to play to conserve your HP.  The few premium T8 cruisers with heals give up significant amounts of DPM to have access to that repair party. 

The nice thing about ranked is that due to the smaller team sizes, your performance is more likely to affect the outcome.  Unless you are arguing that T8 cruisers are just as good as T9 ones (which is silly), if I want to have the greatest impact on the game, I will bring the most powerful ship I can even if that means the other team gets the same firepower.  Otherwise, it's like saying I'm gonna take a lesser ship to make sure my opponent has the same because I don't trust myself to outperform my opponent in the higher firepower ship.

Bottom line is that I really enjoyed the all tier 8 matchmaking.  That is gone now.

Apparently with any sort of match making for T7 or T6 as well.

Edited by YouSatInGum
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2 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

Unless you are arguing that T8 cruisers are just as good as T9 ones (which is silly), if I want to have the greatest impact on the game, I will bring the most powerful ship I can even if that means the other team gets the same firepower.

If I am confident in my performance in a tier 8 ship and I enjoy playing it, it’s doesn’t matter if I am facing all tier 8s or tier 8 and 9s. The ship has the tools and I have the skill to perform well. I understand that you feel underpowered taking a tier 8 into a tier 9 match, but to focus solely on what you bring to the match and ignore the composition of the opposing team (by focusing on hypothetical 1-on1 matchups) is illogical in a 7v7 team battle. I obviously don’t view my ability to have an impact in a match to be limited by my tier to near the extent that you do, and I am confident enough in my ability to be just as effective or more effective with tier 8s that I enjoy playing as tier 9s that I do not. For me, this change allows me greater flexibility in my ship choice, leads to more variety in team compositions, and gives me the chance to earn more xp if I choose to play tier 8s, all of which are good things. The fact that I’ll have to play against tier 9s as well (which is nothing new) is an acceptable trade.

2 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

Otherwise, it's like saying I'm gonna take a lesser ship to make sure my opponent has the same because I don't trust myself to outperform my opponent in the higher firepower ship.

No, it’s about taking the ship you want to play, and trusting yourself and being confident in your ability to outperform your opponents, regardless of the tier. The fact that you are likely to have a low tier opponent who feels crippled playing against +1 MM is a bonus. It’s about not viewing a +1 uptier as some insurmountable obstacle in a game where MM is balanced between teams.

Edited by Nevermore135

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On 2/11/2021 at 6:22 PM, YouSatInGum said:

I know I'm a couple days late to ßitch about this....BUT

This lasts ranked reason, I enjoyed Bronze league the most....BY FAR!!!

The reason why is it is T8.... or was.  T8 is a pretty well balanced tier while not having too many OP then pulled ships.  I also think it strikes a fun balance between offensive capability while not having too much that makes small mistakes fatal like in T10. However,  In normal random games both T8 and T7 are known to get the worst matches on average.  In fact, I've measured over a 130 something games and T8 gets bottom tier 43% of the time while getting top tier or same tier games much much less often.

This last ranked season in bronze solved that giving us same tier matching every time.  As a cruiser main, the smaller teams are another bonus.  The new ranked has it's issues for sure, but this was one of the few things I really liked.  Now with it becoming Tier 8/9 there won't be much of a reason to bring any 8's.  Bringing a non-healing cruiser against healing cruisers is silly.   In all the feedback to WG, I said that I miss T7 ships being a part of ranked, but this a step in the wrong direction with T9 and T10 ships being the most viable tiers now.

I really don't understand what they are trying to do here???

WG, you just took away the one thing I like most about the new ranked format.

I think you answered your own question.  

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On 2/11/2021 at 10:50 PM, YouSatInGum said:

Would you choose to be bottom tier on purpose?

Maybe. If you are good in a t8 prem ship, you choose it and you force a t8 in the opposing team, and it might be a Seattle which will be ripped apart by you and your t9 teammates.
In last season, in Silver, I sometimes chose Georgia (t9) and it forced appearance of a t9 also in red team. Many times it was just an Iowa or something even worse, easy to fight.

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3 minutes ago, crazyrom said:

Maybe. If you are good in a t8 prem ship, you choose it and you force a t8 in the opposing team, and it might be a Seattle which will be ripped apart by you and your t9 teammates.
In last season, in Silver, I sometimes chose Georgia (t9) and it forced appearance of a t9 also in red team. Many times it was just an Iowa or something even worse, easy to fight.

I'll queue in an Albemarle, maybe you'll like having me in your team

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