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Admiral_Thrawn_1

Trying To Understand The Skill Rework

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@Hapa_Fodder   After playing some battles post skill Rework I have come to simply having 1 question. Why did WG think it was remotely a good idea!? I mean every one of my ship classes and sub classes has suffered from it in feeling even remotely effective.

My DDs now can’t fend off any air attack waves when they used to be able to at least thin out the squadron’s enough to improve survival a bit. Not to mention some of the other skills not exactly helping matters with them.

My BBs that use secondary guns are non functional now, not to mention they lost bulk of their AA as well.

Cruisers pretty much same boat for me as the BBs and DDs only they now have even more things to worry about such as Dead eye and Roosevelt CV attacks.

And let’s not leave out the fact CVs if spotted will now get Dead eye hit as well so have not even bothered trying to use those post update.

Look at CV Rework, so many felt only a few tweaks to RTS CVs were needed. Logically the smaller adjustments should have been tried first before essentially using a sledgehammer to try and massively change things as a fix. (especially when going back to former things is often more difficult for gaming companies after really massive changes.) And now this Skills Rework I am not even sure what WG even thought was broken, but they certainly have a lot of broken non functional elements in there now...

I have played WOT Blitz off and on for years, and yes things get adjusted and changed, but the skills at the heart of things have never been totally shattered like WOWs PC has. And as a matter of fact I have never seen a gaming company pull stunt(s) like this before, likely because the player base could massively reject it leaving the dev team sitting out on the sidewalk instead of nice comfortable chairs making money. It’s like saying “ We see how all you players have fallen in love with our game so we are going to 100% gut everything out of it and completely change everything and see how that goes...” Any sane person would likely see that You have players that enjoy how the game works and changing absolutely everything within a couple years in a game like WOWs could result in very negative outcomes.

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6 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

My DDs now can’t fend off any air attack waves when they used to be able to at least thin out the squadron’s enough to improve survival a bit. Not to mention some of the other skills not exactly helping matters with them.

nothing was change in that regard. DD still have the same AA skill as before, and Adrenaline Rush also help there now.  And plane can have a reduction on flak damage, but in general if they hit flak having 25% less damage will still result in heavy loss.

 

7 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

My BBs that use secondary guns are non functional now, not to mention they lost bulk of their AA as well

Some like the French and the Japanese were hardly hit. Other like the German barely hit.

10 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

And now this Skills Rework I am not even sure what WG even thought was broken, but they certainly have a lot of broken non functional elements in there now... 

Well there is mainly 3 points that are problematic for now:

-Secondary skill needs some works, probably in the form of a carpet buff to secondary accuracy like the German received.

-Dead Eyes need some real down side to not push players to hug the border.

-Super Cruiser should have shorter fire duration.

 

For the rest, I do find the rework enjoyable, especially when you have enough premium to use the same high tier captain on more than one ship.

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13 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

@Hapa_Fodder   After playing some battles post skill Rework I have come to simply having 1 question. Why did WG think it was remotely a good idea!? I mean every one of my ship classes and sub classes has suffered from it in feeling even remotely effective.

My DDs now can’t fend off any air attack waves when they used to be able to at least thin out the squadron’s enough to improve survival a bit. Not to mention some of the other skills not exactly helping matters with them.

My BBs that use secondary guns are non functional now, not to mention they lost bulk of their AA as well.

Cruisers pretty much same boat for me as the BBs and DDs only they now have even more things to worry about such as Dead eye and Roosevelt CV attacks.

And let’s not leave out the fact CVs if spotted will now get Dead eye hit as well so have not even bothered trying to use those post update.

Look at CV Rework, so many felt only a few tweaks to RTS CVs were needed. Logically the smaller adjustments should have been tried first before essentially using a sledgehammer to try and massively change things as a fix. (especially when going back to former things is often more difficult for gaming companies after really massive changes.) And now this Skills Rework I am not even sure what WG even thought was broken, but they certainly have a lot of broken non functional elements in there now...

I have played WOT Blitz off and on for years, and yes things get adjusted and changed, but the skills at the heart of things have never been totally shattered like WOWs PC has. And as a matter of fact I have never seen a gaming company pull stunt(s) like this before, likely because the player base could massively reject it leaving the dev team sitting out on the sidewalk instead of nice comfortable chairs making money. It’s like saying “ We see how all you players have fallen in love with our game so we are going to 100% gut everything out of it and completely change everything and see how that goes...” Any sane person would likely see that You have players that enjoy how the game works and changing absolutely everything within a couple years in a game like WOWs could result in very negative outcomes.

What He Said^^^^^^

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15 minutes ago, Karstodes said:

nothing was change in that regard. DD still have the same AA skill as before, and Adrenaline Rush also help there now.

AR is not really useful for DD AA, unless your ship’s name is Halland. And it now costs a point more for good measure. 

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4 minutes ago, vak_ said:

AR is not really useful for DD AA, unless your ship’s name is Halland. And it now costs a point more for good measure. 

DD can easily lose a good chunk of their health without loosing too many AA mount tho, so it is still a slight buff. 

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1 minute ago, Karstodes said:

DD can easily lose a good chunk of their health without loosing too many AA mount tho, so it is still a slight buff. 

Sure, slight buff — but only if we forget that cost of AR increased by 50%. 

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35 minutes ago, Karstodes said:

nothing was change in that regard. DD still have the same AA skill as before, and Adrenaline Rush also help there now.  And plane can have a reduction on flak damage, but in general if they hit flak having 25% less damage will still result in heavy loss.

 

Some like the French and the Japanese were hardly hit. Other like the German barely hit.

Well there is mainly 3 points that are problematic for now:

-Secondary skill needs some works, probably in the form of a carpet buff to secondary accuracy like the German received.

-Dead Eyes need some real down side to not push players to hug the border.

-Super Cruiser should have shorter fire duration.

 

For the rest, I do find the rework enjoyable, especially when you have enough premium to use the same high tier captain on more than one ship.

DDs used to be able to add in BFT for some times faster rate of fire depending on caliber of guns they carried, but also added AA that felt better than having no added benefits. So had nice bonuses and have the AA award on Shimakaze to prove BFT had some nice effects.

Edited by Admiral_Thrawn_1

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Mostly it is just to stir things up.

As Mr. Holden said, "In confusion, there is profit".

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It is plain WG WoWS Dev team has lost touch with their own game this past two years...and the commander rebork may not even be the frosting... sure some good stuff, like the menu improvement, but the meat, the game play, is not well thought out and obviously not tested to any degree of acceptablility.

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2 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

As Mr. Holden said, "In confusion, there is profit".

''In times of change, Fortune passes everywhere''

But not from my wallet

FUBAR is a weak description

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3 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

DDs used to be able to add in BFT for some times faster rate of fire depending on caliber of guns they carried, but also added AA that felt better than having no added benefits. So had nice bonuses and have the AA award on Shimakaze to prove BFT had some nice effects.

And you still have that skill in the set, albeit it give 5% main gun reload now. 

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38 minutes ago, Karstodes said:

For the rest, I do find the rework enjoyable, especially when you have enough premium to use the same high tier captain on more than one ship.

And you, sir, are what this rework is all about :cap_old:

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1 hour ago, DrHolmes52 said:

As Mr. Holden said, "In confusion, there is profit".

+1 because I get that.

(-)

My biggest irritant about the skill rework has been that a lot of what my skills were changed to on various ships, and recommendations in general, are seriously WTH WG?!?

Last night I played Podvoisky for the first time since the rework.

I think its converted skills were; Grease the Gears, Pyriotechnitian, Main Battery and AA (3) and (4.)

Those were immediately thrown out, (I want to be seen further away in a destroyer why?) for; PM, PT, Fill the Tubes, and CE.

Six kill, 100k plus damage game. (Yes, Co-op.)

2 hours ago, Karstodes said:

For the rest, I do find the rework enjoyable,

More pointless, to me personally.

2 hours ago, Karstodes said:

...especially when you have enough premium to use the same high tier captain on more than one ship.

This matters, why?

Perhaps a consequence of being a long term player with many settled (if not point maxed,) captains, but this is completely meaningless to me.

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I just want "Grease the Guns/Gears" to have the same meaning it had when it was "Expert Marksman". The purpose has been foiled in the rework leaving slow turrets still slow and fast turrets even faster.

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3 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

@Hapa_Fodder   After playing some battles post skill Rework I have come to simply having 1 question. Why did WG think it was remotely a good idea!? I mean every one of my ship classes and sub classes has suffered from it in feeling even remotely effective.

My DDs now can’t fend off any air attack waves when they used to be able to at least thin out the squadron’s enough to improve survival a bit. Not to mention some of the other skills not exactly helping matters with them.

My BBs that use secondary guns are non functional now, not to mention they lost bulk of their AA as well.

Cruisers pretty much same boat for me as the BBs and DDs only they now have even more things to worry about such as Dead eye and Roosevelt CV attacks.

And let’s not leave out the fact CVs if spotted will now get Dead eye hit as well so have not even bothered trying to use those post update.

Look at CV Rework, so many felt only a few tweaks to RTS CVs were needed. Logically the smaller adjustments should have been tried first before essentially using a sledgehammer to try and massively change things as a fix. (especially when going back to former things is often more difficult for gaming companies after really massive changes.) And now this Skills Rework I am not even sure what WG even thought was broken, but they certainly have a lot of broken non functional elements in there now...

I have played WOT Blitz off and on for years, and yes things get adjusted and changed, but the skills at the heart of things have never been totally shattered like WOWs PC has. And as a matter of fact I have never seen a gaming company pull stunt(s) like this before, likely because the player base could massively reject it leaving the dev team sitting out on the sidewalk instead of nice comfortable chairs making money. It’s like saying “ We see how all you players have fallen in love with our game so we are going to 100% gut everything out of it and completely change everything and see how that goes...” Any sane person would likely see that You have players that enjoy how the game works and changing absolutely everything within a couple years in a game like WOWs could result in very negative outcomes.

I will say this.

Ahsoka is looking for you, Thrawn.    (Just kidding.)  :Smile_hiding:

 

Seriously though, I am generally on board with the rework, but that doesn't mean that I think that it's perfect.  I think that it has some rough edges that need some work.  

Deadeye definitely feels OP.

The old Manual Sec skill (I don't remember all the new names yet) is nice in that it allows your secs to engage all enemy ships, but the nerf to tier 7+ BB accuracy was too much.  Bump it up to +50% buff and I think that that would fix the issue.

It seems to me that there are no good offensive skills for regular 6" gun armed CLs.  Ultra light CLs (i.e. those using DD guns) gain access to the Heavy HE/SAP shells skill without penalty, but regular CLs do not.  On the flip side, 8"  gun armed  CAs and super cruisers get access to the heavy AP shells skill, which is decent enough.  And overall, I'm not thrilled with 3 skill slots being used up by torpedo skills when there are so few cruisers that see torps as anything but very low priority weapons.  Put another way, the vast majority of cruisers see guns as far and away their most important weapon system.  Those that see torps as a serious secondary weapon system are few in number.  So, it just seems to me that there are too many skill slots dedicated to torps.

I'm going to limit my comments on this to what I've already written, just to save time and my fingers.  Have a nice night.

 

 

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23 hours ago, Karstodes said:

And you still have that skill in the set, albeit it give 5% main gun reload now. 

Yes and this is one of the many things that have me very much questioning the logic across the board for this update. Seems like so many things have gotten nerfed or completely destroyed. A measly +5% main gun reload when you used to get more than that plus the added Aa benefits.

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Two words explain the entire resson behind the rework snd is all you need to know: MONEY GRAB

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The rework was not needed about 1/3 of the "new" skills are useless.  Dead Eye is ruining game play its just dumb, makes what was already a bad tendency of a class and make it worse with no penalty. Secondary change again just dumb, who cares about range when they lose accuracy on something you can aim yourself.

The skill could have been sooooooooooo easy to progress tot he a 21 point system if that was the intent, but the intent I suspect was the money you will have to fork over with changing a skills in the future

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10 hours ago, vikingno2 said:

The rework was not needed about 1/3 of the "new" skills are useless.  Dead Eye is ruining game play its just dumb, makes what was already a bad tendency of a class and make it worse with no penalty. Secondary change again just dumb, who cares about range when they lose accuracy on something you can aim yourself.

The skill could have been sooooooooooo easy to progress tot he a 21 point system if that was the intent, but the intent I suspect was the money you will have to fork over with changing a skills in the future

Yes and not only does it severely hurt veteran players, but I don’t even know how to begin to explain to a new player how to build up a captain now as it’s a far more confusing mess on top of everything else. Not to mention that every single written and video guide for the game are now 100% unusable to any new players. In the past some vids might get a little out of date but not be completely useless.

If Wargaming simply wanted to add extra captain point levels that would have been fine, maybe even adding some extra skills like the cruiser AP shell damage if they really felt more choices were really needed. But most of the skills are now completely useless or in case of Dead eye brokenly overpowered.

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On 2/11/2021 at 3:34 PM, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

And as a matter of fact I have never seen a gaming company pull stunt(s) like this before, likely because the player base could massively reject it leaving the dev team sitting out on the sidewalk instead of nice comfortable chairs making money. It’s like saying “ We see how all you players have fallen in love with our game so we are going to 100% gut everything out of it and completely change everything and see how that goes...” Any sane person would likely see that You have players that enjoy how the game works and changing absolutely everything within a couple years in a game like WOWs could result in very negative outcomes.

 

There's this game called World of Warcraft. It was kinda big a while ago. It's still around today, I think. You've never played it, have you?

Edited by TomRCJ

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