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Hapa_Fodder

ST 0.10.2, New ships

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I think I'd rather be driving a Weimar in a tier 9 battle than a Tiger.

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T7 Weimar looks interesting. Should do well in Narai.

Where can I pre-order?  :-)

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Huh, I always wondered if Tiger would/ could be implemented in this game. Now I know. Could certainly be interesting but I will definitely wait for tester/ CC to play it before pulling the trigger.

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two turrets... It will be funny when some Thunder HE shells "ACCIDENTALLY" break one or two of them. 

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I guess we are at the point where it doesn't even take a year for a premium to be powercrept by a similar design. Also something to consider is that by the amount of  premium german CLs that are introduced we could probably have an actual CL tech tree line....

As for Tiger, unless these turrets are made out of stalinium it's gonna have a bad time. Firing angles don't look good either. But hey, it's ok,  stealth radar because WG has stated time and time again that they would try to absolutely stop it :Smile_trollface:

Edited by warheart1992
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Thinking about catching a DD with radar while in your smoke brings a smile. (Tiger)

Thinking of the Georgia hitting speed boost and charging said smokes brings a cold sweat. (Tiger)

Edit:  I don't think Weimar makes it to the shop as is.  It just looks too fun.

Edited by DrHolmes52

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Weimar: promising, but how to differentiate between her and Munchen without one ship being a straight upgrade / cannibalizing the other?.. 

Tiger:  T8 Mikasa, I don't see how they can balance the ship as vs the 12 gun Edinburgh / Belfast 43 since rapid fire from smoke just makes it easy to blind fire.

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Weimar looks like a potentially great Narai ship. It does look like a flat-out better Munchen, which is also disappointing in a way. Munchen is markedly faster, but maneuverability is similar. Munchen is stealthier, but Weimar has 33% more gun barrels and double the number of torpedo launchers as well as an extra slug of HP. 

Tiger '59 looks interesting, but mostly interesting in the Chinese sense of the word. Clearly the same person who developed Fen Yang was given free reign to make Tiger '59 in his or her own image. Oodles of consumables but terrible firepower. Downtiering a cruiser with two Minotaur turrets seems kind of interesting, but then you realize that this is a downtiered cruiser at Tier VIII that can face actual Minotaurs in matchmaking queue. And then it sounds a lot less attractive. Plus it looks unlikely that she'll be able to get both turrets into action without showing large amounts of broadside, which means honestly she's pretty mediocre as a DD hunter as well.

Some things that could make her more competitive would be adding her three historical 76mm DP twin turrets and some of the 40mm Bofors mounts she was initially planned to have as well as crawling smoke. If you wanted to make things really interesting, you could give those 76mm twin mounts a 2.5-second reload, 7.5 km range, and sufficient bonus armor penetration to penetrate 19mm armor for secondary spiciness as a DD hunter.

Edited by RainbowFartingUnicorn
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Tiger's AA figures are wrong. IRL she also has 3 x twin 76mm AA, the same heavy AA guns found on Minotaur, and those are not listed in the stats. They should represent a long to mid range aura. 

I was wondering how she could ever be implemented in the game. Putting her down at Tier 8 is sort of the only way, and I'm not entirely sure she doesn't belong at Tier 7. In fact, I'd advocate strongly for her to be there if not for the fact that it would put another radar into Tier 5-7 MM.

The simple fact is that she's not fit to face Minotaur (which has 2.5 x the number of identical gun turrets), or even Neptune in a straight-out fight. The only thing that saves her is having both radar and smoke.

7 minutes ago, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

Some things that could make her more competitive would be adding her three historical 76mm DP twin turrets and some of the 40mm Bofors mounts she was initially planned to have.

The picture actually shows the 76mm turrets, and I agree that making them secondaries would go a long way toward balancing her.

7 minutes ago, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

Clearly the same person who developed Fen Yang was given free rein to make Tiger '59 in his or her own image.

Unfortunately for that argument, this is her historical configuration. In my opinion she should be renamed BLAKE (one of the other two ships of the class, the third being the severely overused LION).

The interesting thing about calling her Tiger '59 is that it suggests we will eventually get the WW1 battlecruiser of the same name, otherwise why differentiate her with the date?

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In my opinion...

To put Tiger into range of Tier 10's testifies to two things:

  • Developers don't really play the game, putting a short range boat w/4 152's into that arena.
  • Anyone who purchases this boat will buy ANYTHING WG puts out and will be seen as 'Crack-addicts' in their decision-making process.

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11 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Tiger's AA figures are wrong. IRL she also has 3 x twin 76mm AA, the same heavy AA guns found on Minotaur, and those are not listed in the stats. They should represent a long to mid range aura. 

I was wondering how she could ever be implemented in the game. Putting her down at Tier 8 is sort of the only way, and I'm not entirely sure she doesn't belong at Tier 7. In fact, I'd advocate strongly for her to be there if not for the fact that it would put another radar into Tier 5-7 MM.

The simple fact is that she's not fit to face Minotaur (which has 2.5 x the number of identical gun turrets), or even Neptune in a straight-out fight. The only thing that saves her is having both radar and smoke.

The picture actually shows the 76mm turrets, and I agree that making them secondaries would go a long way toward balancing her.

Unfortunately for that argument, this is her historical configuration. In my opinion she should be renamed BLAKE (one of the other two ships of the class, the third being the severely overused LION).

The interesting thing about calling her Tiger '59 is that it suggests we will eventually get the WW1 battlecruiser of the same name, otherwise why differentiate her with the date?

I was hoping that the AA text description was an oversight on not having the 76mm twin mounts included. Making them secondaries would help... but I think it would only help if they could get custom armor penetration to defeat 19mm armor, improved accuracy, and improved base range. Otherwise they'd be as helpful as Orkan's secondary. 

I thought about downtiering her to Tier VII, but her consumables suite would be grossly overpowered there, even if they nerfed the radar range. 

Very hard ship to incorporate into the game given how advanced she was as a mid-Cold War ship while simultaneously having so little firepower.

I'm not sold that we'll get the 1913 HMS Tiger as we have had W. Virginia '41 for quite a while with no sign of W. Virginia '44.

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7 minutes ago, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

I'm not sold that we'll get the 1913 HMS Tiger as we have had W. Virginia '41 for quite a while with no sign of W. Virginia '44.

Against that, we will soon have two VAMPIRES (and Vampire 2 should really be Vampire 59).

7 minutes ago, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

Very hard ship to incorporate into the game given how advanced she was as a mid-Cold War ship while simultaneously having so little firepower.

Her post-war fire control should compensate for that, but it would require making her dispersion abnormally small and her sigma abnormally high; think a Tier 10 Yubari.

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So what does the Tiger do? That any other comprable ship in the game doesn't do better? And only 4 152's with 3.2 second reload? One of those turrets goes down you're basically dead. Can't see this ship being fun to play even if it's top tier, imagine T10... Seems just like another floating dev strike to me.

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WG: Smoke + radar is bad for the game so we have to remove Belfast

WG: Stealth radar is bad for the game so we're nerfing USN CL

Also WG: Look at all these new stealth radar and smoke radar ships we're adding to the game.

Also WG: Why don't you guys ever believe our horse excrement excuses for why we balanse things? 

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im surprised no one's mentioned that Weimar is virtually just a Mainz at T7, 12 guns, 12 torps, i think the same reload give or take, seems interesting to me, but the Tiger is for sure going to need all the help it can get

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Tiger: other than the insanity of stealth radar and radar/smoke combo, I'm not really sure what this brings over Edinburgh or even T7 Belfast. Also funny how WG's said in the past smoke+radar and stealth radar is bad and we will remove it, and then Tiger comes along and does both. One more thing, why are her 76mm AA guns not mentioned in her AA defense? I can clearly see two just in that picture, was that a whoopsie or are they only there for decoration?  

Weimar: There is absolutely no way this thing will make it through testing like this. Quarter million HE DPM, over half a million AP.  That's like being HE spammed by a Seattle (but this time with 38mm HE pen) and getting AP spammed by a Smolensk, at T7. Oh and you have Algerie's speed boost, so for 3 minutes you can go 37knts. If this does stay unmolested, get it ASAP

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4 minutes ago, tfcas119 said:

Also funny how WG's said in the past smoke+radar and stealth radar is bad and we will remove it, and then Tiger comes along and does both.

I think it was the fire-starting capability of Belfast with smoke/radar that really pushed her over the edge into OP. Tiger's low gun-barrel numbers and lack of access to HE should keep her in check in that regard.

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33 minutes ago, DieBesten121 said:

So what does the Tiger do? That any other comprable ship in the game doesn't do better? And only 4 152's with 3.2 second reload? One of those turrets goes down you're basically dead. Can't see this ship being fun to play even if it's top tier, imagine T10... Seems just like another floating dev strike to me.

Giant British Freisland basically

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2 minutes ago, Trophy_Wench said:

Giant British Freisland basically

If they want that, they'll have to give her a much higher rate of fire, which might involve pushing her up to Tier 9 (coal, anyone?).

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11 minutes ago, tfcas119 said:

Also funny how WG's said in the past smoke+radar and stealth radar is bad and we will remove it, and then Tiger comes along and does both.

It's not just Tiger, literally every radar WG has added since the USN CL nerf has either been stealth or smoke.

Edited by Rouxi

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43 minutes ago, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

I'm not sold that we'll get the 1913 HMS Tiger as we have had W. Virginia '41 for quite a while with no sign of W. Virginia '44.

I'm disappointed that the WW1 era HMS Tiger didn't make it into the game before the Tiger'59.  

As for the WV'44, I think that, since the release of the second USN  BB line, it'll be difficult to include the WV'44.  I think that merely adding AA to the fully upgraded Colorado would make her OP for tier 7, but that simple addition might not be enough for tier 8.  Knowing that a WV'44 would  be competing with the Kansas, it'd need more than just good AA.  I'd think that she'd also have to have enhanced accuracy over the Colorado and/or the super-heavy AP shells of high tier USN first line BBs (and/or perhaps a RoF increase to her main guns) to make up for having 4 less guns than the Kansas.

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1 hour ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Please leave feedback below.

It's always cringeworthy when we have a post war ship introduced to serve alongside 1930s design's. Maybe if Tiger recieved a reload booster i wonder if she would fit into t8.

All the While, regarding Weiner, as a t7 Mainze, i cant help but feel major power creep on Atlanta, and decisive power creep on Boise/Flint. Engine Booster looks so out of thene and place on a German ship it's not even funny. I wonder if Mainz would be a good opportunity to introduce radar to the Germans.

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14 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

im surprised no one's mentioned that Weimar is virtually just a Mainz at T7, 12 guns, 12 torps, i think the same reload give or take, seems interesting to me, but the Tiger is for sure going to need all the help it can get

I'm surprised that the Weimar wasn't designed as a tier 7 premium CA, rather than just another CL.  The Munchen seems good enough to me at tier 7 and I don't see the need for yet another tier 7 German premium CL.  Also, it's not like the Munchen is an old and stale premium where a new premium at that tier could be justified.  The Muchen is still pretty new, all things considered ... unless the spreadsheet is saying that the Munchen is seriously under performing for tier 7

 

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i just want to point out that the 76,2mm Guns in the tiger'59 are missing in the AA stats, they are modeled in the ship, but missing in the stats.
image.thumb.png.7284ffc6cffbd33171e7f0ae824cd11d.png
image.thumb.png.e228012af2be55eb13388496dfe05bf0.png

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