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KptzS_Otto_Kahler

Champion system, what do you think?

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As I see, that the bigger problem in random battle is the lack of knowledge of the players in what they should do (hold the flanks, push where enemy is weaker, retreat to reinforce falling flanks, etc).
 
I think this could be solved with a system where one player of each team, that played best in the last match, was given the champion(admiral, maybe?) badge, a diferent collor on minimap, a way to put orders clear in player's UI and some sort of reward power to those who distinguished in battle.
This way, the general direction of the team could be better, maybe we would see less steamrolls.
 
What do you think?
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1 hour ago, KptzS_Otto_Kahler said:
As I see, that the bigger problem in random battle is the lack of knowledge of the players in what they should do (hold the flanks, push where enemy is weaker, retreat to reinforce falling flanks, etc.).
 
I think this could be solved with a system where one player of each team, that played best in the last match, was given the champion(admiral, maybe?) badge, a different color on minimap, a way to put orders clear in player's UI and some sort of reward power to those who distinguished in battle.
This way, the general direction of the team could be better, maybe we would see less steamrolls.
 
What do you think?

It'll never work.  People will ignore the team's "leader" and do their own thing.  I know that if someone outside my clan tried to order me around, I'd either ignore them completely, or first tell them to pound sand and then ignore them.

 

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8 minutes ago, Crucis said:

It'll never work.  People will ignore the team's "leader" and do their own thing.  I know that if someone outside my clan tried to order me around, I'd either ignore them completely, or first tell them to pound sand and then ignore them.

 

And your responses would be more polite and family friendly than most.

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Yeeeeah NOPE

No way am I getting bossed around by a Dumb AF potato who only has 30 battles and bought an ARP Yamato. NO WAY

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8 minutes ago, AdmiralFox08 said:

Yeeeeah NOPE

No way am I getting bossed around by a Dumb AF potato who only has 30 battles and bought an ARP Yamato. NO WAY

"Dumb AF potato's" don't end up with the highest score over other players. Did you see that in OP's post?

Expanding on the OPs idea:

  • Players are given rewards or small bonuses for doing what the Admiral is saying.
    • Needed as people want to play their ship the way they want. Need incentive.
  • Players can vote to remove the Admiral both at the beginning and and during battle.
  • New option to report the admiral for poor play, effect being that the player will not be able to be Admiral for 3 days.

 

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53 minutes ago, AdmiralFox08 said:

Yeeeeah NOPE

No way am I getting bossed around by a Dumb AF potato who only has 30 battles and bought an ARP Yamato. NO WAY

If this guy will "boss" you, that's probably because, most likely, he's a better player than you, or you would have a better performance than him on the last battle...

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

It'll never work.  People will ignore the team's "leader" and do their own thing.  I know that if someone outside my clan tried to order me around, I'd either ignore them completely, or first tell them to pound sand and then ignore them.

 

They would not tell you directly by chat. His assigned objectives would show up at your UI as tasks to be acumplished by your sector, division, of even by yourself alone. You may ignore.

If you're a good player, sometimes you would get this charge too. To put objectives  for the team.

Edited by KptzS_Otto_Kahler

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17 minutes ago, KptzS_Otto_Kahler said:

They would not tell you directly by chat. His assigned objectives would show up at your UI as tasks to be acumplished by your sector, division, of even by yourself alone. You may ignore.

If you're a good player, sometimes you would get this charge too. To put objectives  for the team.

I don't care.  Even if I didn't know who was the admiral, I'd tell the person anonymously to pound sand and play his own damned ship, in no uncertain terms.  This isn't a debatable topic for me.

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7 hours ago, KptzS_Otto_Kahler said:
As I see, that the bigger problem in random battle is the lack of knowledge of the players in what they should do (hold the flanks, push where enemy is weaker, retreat to reinforce falling flanks, etc).
 
I think this could be solved with a system where one player of each team, that played best in the last match, was given the champion(admiral, maybe?) badge, a diferent collor on minimap, a way to put orders clear in player's UI and some sort of reward power to those who distinguished in battle.
This way, the general direction of the team could be better, maybe we would see less steamrolls.
 
What do you think?

I am in Command of My Ship.
No one else is entitled to give orders to me or my ship.
Requests may or may not be fulfilled, at my discretion.
Your proposal does not have my interest or approval.

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i think spelling correctly should be also be considered for the champion badge.....nothing worse than spamming orders that cant be read without rereading them....but if you try the F key quick commands that might give you the ability to boss people around with out them even knowing your doing it ..that will save on your karma points  

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In my opinion, this would probably lead to more steamrolls AND toxicity than we currently have:

  • Lemming trains become the status quo since people will just join whatever flank the different colored ship on the minimap is on, thinking that their champion will carry them
  • If our champion sits in the back and doesn't push, why should I?  They must be a good player so I'll just copy them!
  • Champion on my team detonates or dies early?  Might as well type "gg" in All chat and don't forget to tell everyone to report our champion for being bad
  • We lost? Report our champion since their objectives didn't help us win
  • Decent reward for completing objectives?  So much potential for even shorter matches
    • Champion sets objective as hold left flank, 8-10 ships join left flank, leaving the right flank very weak
    • Champion sets objective as hold both flanks, no one stays in the middle, team gets split in 2 so enemy DDs sneak up the middle into your spawn and delete your CV, which gives the enemy CV a huge advantage for the rest of the match
    • Champion sets objective as cap B and C, half the team rushes B and C and gets deleted by the enemy team
    • Champion sets objective as capture the inner cap in Epicenter mode, half the team rushes the inner cap and gets deleted by the enemy team
  • Minimal or no reward for completed objectives? Then why would I follow them? I might as well play my way if I am not getting anything out of playing your way since completing objectives does not guarantee victory
  • We'd probably have teams with no champions if you can't be the champion for 3 days after being reported

And if you thought Deadeye was bad enough, wait until champions on both teams set the objective as defend the base and no one pushes at all.  Then we will have the ultimate debate of which is worse, being on the losing side of a 5 minute steamroll or being on the losing side of a 20 minute match where 21 out of 24 players are still alive at the end?

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8 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I am in Command of My Ship.
No one else is entitled to give orders to me or my ship.
Requests may or may not be fulfilled, at my discretion.
Your proposal does not have my interest or approval.

You must be fun in a game based on random people being expected to cooperate in a team.

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17 hours ago, KptzS_Otto_Kahler said:
 
What do you think?

If you want to cultivate or even eliminate certain behaviors of players.. You have to nerf the capabilities of the ordnance to a level to where, the behavior is no longer possible..

You can't alter how a player is going to play the game to win (or lose badly). Players are going to play the way they want to...

You can, nerf the ordnance and other game elements, to force players to stop  unwanted types of play...

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On 2/11/2021 at 5:21 AM, KusaPeko said:
  • Lemming trains become the status quo since people will just join whatever flank the different colored ship on the minimap is on, thinking that their champion will carry them
  • If our champion sits in the back and doesn't push, why should I?  They must be a good player so I'll just copy them!
  • Champion on my team detonates or dies early?  Might as well type "gg" in All chat and don't forget to tell everyone to report our champion for being bad
  • We lost? Report our champion since their objectives didn't help us win

Well, it's a good point. Maybe if champion was not marked, just get the control to issue the team objectives?

 

On 2/11/2021 at 5:21 AM, KusaPeko said:
  • Champion sets objective as hold left flank, 8-10 ships join left flank, leaving the right flank very weak
  • Champion sets objective as hold both flanks, no one stays in the middle, team gets split in 2 so enemy DDs sneak up the middle into your spawn and delete your CV, which gives the enemy CV a huge advantage for the rest of the match
  • Champion sets objective as cap B and C, half the team rushes B and C and gets deleted by the enemy team
  • Champion sets objective as capture the inner cap in Epicenter mode, half the team rushes the inner cap and gets deleted by the enemy team

Those cenarios would happen, but they already happen. I just believe that a decent player have a resonable good tactical view. 80% or more of the playerbase dont have, so if just one guy have this, and get tools to put it to the others, and they just join, it would solve the lack of tactical coordination. It still a game where one team will lose for the other to win. The idea is not avoiding defeat. It's to avoid completely nonsense moves.

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On 2/10/2021 at 9:44 PM, Wolfswetpaws said:

I am in Command of My Ship.
No one else is entitled to give orders to me or my ship.
Requests may or may not be fulfilled, at my discretion.
Your proposal does not have my interest or approval.

It's not a 1x1 game. It's a team game. Captains of ships always follow orders from admiralty. Fleets have general commanders. It's not a game about pirate ships.

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On 2/11/2021 at 1:41 AM, arch4random said:

i think spelling correctly should be also be considered for the champion badge.....nothing worse than spamming orders that cant be read without rereading them....but if you try the F key quick commands that might give you the ability to boss people around with out them even knowing your doing it ..that will save on your karma points  

The idea is the champion to point the objectives and change them at his tactical map, without having to type in chat. It would show up to players as tasks (like those on operations maybe?). The champion itself could be annonymous as well.

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not going to work...  

 

its my time to do what I wish to do... and as most players don't even have chat enabled...  now its just more mad map pings...

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6 hours ago, KptzS_Otto_Kahler said:

It's not a 1x1 game. It's a team game. Captains of ships always follow orders from admiralty. Fleets have general commanders. It's not a game about pirate ships.

You are not in command of any other player.
Just as I am not in command of any other player.
Each player plays their ship(s).

 

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13 hours ago, KptzS_Otto_Kahler said:

Well, it's a good point. Maybe if champion was not marked, just get the control to issue the team objectives?

Then the champion would be able to get away with abusing the system to fulfill their personal goals and the rest of the team wouldn't be able to report the champion if they don't know who it is

  • In a DD and need spotting damage to finish a mission?  Just set the objective to hold whatever flank you are on, most of the team will come over and shoot at the enemy ships you are spotting
  • In a cruiser and need potential damage to finish a mission?  Just set the objective to push the opposite flank, most of the team will go to the other side, giving you plenty of space to kite and dodge enemy fire
  • In a BB and need damage to finish a mission?  Just set the objective to cap on your flank so your team pushes into the cap and draws enemy fire, which keeps the enemy detected, which allows you to farm the enemy
  • In a CV and need damage to finish a mission?  Just set the objective to defend and not push so your team stays back, allowing your planes to do all the work so you can get all the damage

What would happen if the champion dies early and exits to port?  The team would have no way of knowing that their champion is gone if they aren't marked so a sudden need to push or fall back would not be communicated to the team since the objectives wouldn't update due to the champion leaving the match.  And players who want to have fun and don't care about winning or losing (in free-to-play games, this would be the vast majority of the players) could just leave objectives blank since no one knows they are the champion and they won't be reported, which defeats the entire purpose of the champion system.

13 hours ago, KptzS_Otto_Kahler said:

Those cenarios would happen, but they already happen. I just believe that a decent player have a resonable good tactical view. 80% or more of the playerbase dont have, so if just one guy have this, and get tools to put it to the others, and they just join, it would solve the lack of tactical coordination. It still a game where one team will lose for the other to win. The idea is not avoiding defeat. It's to avoid completely nonsense moves.

We already have a way for someone to tell others what to do in order to solve the lack of coordination, it's called team chat.  If you think 80% of players already ignore team chat so that they can play their way and "pull completely nonsense moves", then there is no reason to expect those same players will follow orders from another player.  Those players will just ignore orders in addition to team chat so that they can continue to play their way and "pull completely nonsense moves".  And there is no way of knowing if the champion is a decent player or part of the 80%.  Even bad players occasionally have great games and good players have bad games so assigning the champion based on previous battle performance doesn't guarantee that the champion has a "reasonable good tactical view".  I wouldn't want my team to follow the orders of someone who is tactically incompetent but was blessed by RNG in their previous match.

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