Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
AbyssAngkor

Skill ReRework: Theorycrafting

6 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

356
[GRETA]
[GRETA]
Members
602 posts
19,231 battles

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13-zk78OnrypTId8QR4dE4BuN28lenluXpbdl1lkVHCg/edit#gid=0

Here I looked at all of the problems of the current skills for surface ships and changed several of them to fit the problems that plague each ship type. The major points I want to emphasize are:

  1. "Deadeye" changed so that it only works when you are the one spotting the target. Forces BB players to move closer to the fight.
  2. Secondary builds buffed, +1 consumables rolled into "brawler" skill that also enhances your secondary rate of fire, at the cost of concealment.
  3. Cruisers will have access to a new skill called "incendiary tracers," which will increase the target's detection range if it catches on fire (in addition to the existing fire penalty), giving your enemy a severe penalty and a boon to your teammates trying to hit that pesky DD. (perfect support tool for any cruiser, great way to light up BBs hiding in the back line) The new "Parthian tactics" skill (formerly outnumbered) will make a kiting cruiser a very difficult target.
  4. Destroyers have improved protection to damage thanks to the buffed "dazzle" skill, as well as a new skill that reduces detonation damage from 100% to 33%. Players that opt for stealthy DD play can pick "overboost" (formerly swift-in-silence) to increase their ship's speed when they hold their fire for 20s. Benefits any DD overall, but will not work when you are already a speed-demon boosting to over 50 knots while machine-gunning down hapless targets (Smaland, ehem).
  5. Battleships get improved defensive skills against fires and flooding, extinguishing a fire causes a 1-time main battery reload buff (regardless of how the fire is put out, can activate multiple times in a battle).
  6. Battleships and cruisers get actually meaningful AA skills

Let's actually put diversity into our builds, WG.

  • Cool 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
732
[TIMT]
Members
1,377 posts
4,922 battles
8 minutes ago, AbyssAngkor said:

Here I looked at all of the problems of the current skills for surface ships and changed several of them to fit the problems that plague each ship type. The major points I want to emphasize are:

  1. "Deadeye" changed so that it only works when you are the one spotting the target. Forces BB players to move closer to the fight.
  2. Secondary builds buffed, +1 consumables rolled into "brawler" skill that also enhances your secondary rate of fire, at the cost of concealment.
  3. Cruisers will have access to a new skill called "incendiary tracers," which will increase the target's detection range if it catches on fire (in addition to the existing fire penalty), giving your enemy a severe penalty and a boon to your teammates trying to hit that pesky DD. (perfect support tool for any cruiser, great way to light up BBs hiding in the back line) The new "Parthian tactics" skill (formerly outnumbered) will make a kiting cruiser a very difficult target.
  4. Destroyers have improved protection to damage thanks to the buffed "dazzle" skill, as well as a new skill that reduces detonation damage from 100% to 33%. Players that opt for stealthy DD play can pick "overboost" (formerly swift-in-silence) to increase their ship's speed when they hold their fire for 20s. Benefits any DD overall, but will not work when you are already a speed-demon boosting to over 50 knots while machine-gunning down hapless targets (Smaland, ehem).
  5. Battleships get improved defensive skills against fires and flooding, extinguishing a fire causes a 1-time main battery reload buff (regardless of how the fire is put out, can activate multiple times in a battle).
  6. Battleships and cruisers get actually meaningful AA skills

Let's actually put diversity into our builds, WG.

  1. OK, as much as dislike the Deadeye meta right now, I think this way you make the skill almost useless to most players. In many cases you won't be the ship spotting a target, and if you do so it will be at relatively short ranges. So 4 points for something very situational is a hard sell, especially when you consider BBs are not really meant to spot for themselves. I would rather change Deadeye to something coming with a significant drawback, like 25% slower turret traverse or something similar. Thus you would give players the option to focus accuracy over brawling without pushing them artificially out of the engagement zone with the Deadeye condition.
  2. I'm not sure if that extra consumable is worth the 15% worse concealment. Brawling builds are point intensive, and usually you need concealment to get close without getting burned down. Maybe, reduced fire duration when you have ships in your secondary firing range would be nice?
  3. Fires already increase the detection range significantly; Parthian tactics sounds interesting, but it will basically only kick in when you are already pretty much losing or way out of position. Not sure if that is worth four points.
  4. free speed boost if you are not firing is pretty neat, but it should come at a cost and not just be free. I kinda like the concept of "swift in silence" as it is currently.
  5. sounds interesting, but I can't really say too much about it yet.
  6. Okay, don't get me wrong I really like the idea of having effective AA skills in the game. However, just improving the DPS and messing with flak won't really help. Flak is quite effective against bad CV players and will do quite good damage against them, but it is basically useless against the good ones. I have played matches in my Smaland where I was apparently invincible against planes and killed like 40 planes of a T10 CV, to find that I got dumpsterd in the game by a T8 CV. The predictability and automated nature (i.e. performs always identical) makes tuning flak very hard, and DPS is the only reliable way to do damage and it is not designed to stop strikes, anyway (it really can't be, as it is basically the timer for the CV player to do the attack. If it is too short, CV players can't do anything. Too long, and "AA is useless" as it does not mitigate the damage). I would go with range, instead. This would increase the time and distance a CV player needs to overcome to get a strike off, increasing the chance for them to make a mistake. Similarly, with significant range you could actually provide AA cover for someone nearby (for whatever that is worth). Overall, AA skills need to be really effective for them to be worth it, as they are competing with a lot of other skills that help against all ships and not just a single type of ship that is not even in every game.

Regarding diversity in builds, I had some thoughts earlier:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
569
[O7]
Supertester
392 posts
13,174 battles

1. Activation criteria is problematic. I'm assuming you mean deadeye only works if the target is not hardspotted by a surface ship (except you). For that to work, your BB has to play near suicidal or be in super late game where you can consistently get 1v1/1v2s. 

2. Oftentimes the main issue is that BBs don't survive to close into secondary range, especially in larger open maps. Giving +1 heal is mainly relevant in late game, doesn't actually help with brawling. Also +15% conceal is basically giving the enemy 3km more time to prepare. Have fun getting burned down by every HE spamming cruiser and RN BB at high tiers. In mid tiers with closer range maps, then the skill can become absurdly broken as lack of concealment isn't a big detriment and it's easy to keep the -10% reload time. Also lol Massachusetts. 

3. Incendiary tracers is not well designed. Mainly useful in keeping near dead ships lit so you can finish them off. May see use in competitive, but is effectively the same as Pyro in random battles. Parthian tactics is too expensive for 4pts. Given how much Dazzle helped DDs, 5% worse dispersion won't be much better. +8% speed is also meh given the activation criteria. Either you are in too deep for +8% to matter, or you run out of range and deactivate the 8%. 

4. Makes Dazzle better in a competitive setting. In a random setting, still not worth the 4pts except for very specific playstyles. Overboost is a buff, not a change. Straight buff for torp ships. Gunboat DDs are either spotted when firing, or in smoke and not using the skill anyways,. Overboost does allow for interesting positional buffs 

5. Incoming BB players who always DCP 1 fire to boost their main gun reload. Also enhanced torp protection is still a joke. 

6. Armored AA batteries can be replaced by a far superior 125k credit Slot 1 upgrade. 

Flash protection is a complete joke of a skill that is completely replaced by 1 signal. Far better to take Magazine mod 1. 

 

Edited by Your_SAT_Score
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4,085 posts
44,091 battles

I mentioned a while back that if you want BBs to come in, then just reduce the number of fires created on the ship. Make it just 2 and with the 4 point skill that becomes 1. That takes Dead Eye off the table. Sure, cruisers will have a wee hard time starting fires, but they can start one or two at most anyway, just not 3.  And the time is similar to flood mechanics that we have now. This will give cruisers choices like retreat, switch to AP, use torpedoes, call for help, get other BBs to come in and brawl, etc. Since it will be a free for all rumble resplendent with coconut oil, WG will like it. The matches will still be fun and engaging. Secondary builds will also be of importance again and WG will have to adjust that too. DDs can lurk about, sling torpedoes, etc. 

I fail to see the significance of tuning AA since most CV players figured out how to brake turn sharp inside flak anyway only to multi hit DDs. And I myself can HE bomb DDs with deadly force. Rockets are just a fun option. And dropping torpedoes takes finesse and guile, but in the right situation and terrain, a CV player can get you even in that silly Euro DD. Spotting is far more deadly than you think for a DD especially if the CV player uses their fighter in a way to keep you spotted ahead of your advance to keep track of a player. 

Players and tactics evolve. WG is trying to adapt. But the skills rework is a pain. But it will need some refinements. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
674 posts
5,358 battles

personaly i would go with

BBs:

long range sec: swap places with AA gunner (2 skill points)

AA gunner (3 points): skills, modules and flags that affect your secondary guns range olso affect your long range AA max range at 50% of its value.

                        Skills, modules and flags that affect your secondary guns ROF olso affect your long range AA continuous   damage at 50% of its value

super heavy AP: replace longer fires/flood with reduced shell speed

deadeye: main gun dispersion -10%,  enemy He has 30% higher chance to start a fire on you

improved secondary battery: -20% to secondary battery dispersion (both sides), aditionaly -2%  to secondary battery dispersion against designated target for every second the ship remained spoted within secondary range up to -60%. Enemy ship going dark or leaving secondary range will reset the acumulated boost.

 

close quarter: olso adds a permanent  increace to max speed, acceleration/desacceleration and rudder shift at the cost of main guns max range

 

fire prevention: risk of catching fire from -10% to -40% but adds a penalty to guns rate of fire

 

cruisers:
 

survivability expert: olso adds  50% less damage taken from citadel hits and reduce fire duration but lowers main guns ROF

outnumbered: change the condition to "when having 2 or more enemy ships within 10km"

top grade gunner: replace secondary ROF boost with "skills and modules that affect main guns olso affect secondary guns at 200% of its value"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by pepe_trueno

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
356
[GRETA]
[GRETA]
Members
602 posts
19,231 battles

These are all good criticism. The goal is to get the ball rolling and give WG direct player feedback.

9 hours ago, Your_SAT_Score said:

1. Activation criteria is problematic. I'm assuming you mean deadeye only works if the target is not hardspotted by a surface ship (except you). For that to work, your BB has to play near suicidal or be in super late game where you can consistently get 1v1/1v2s. 

2. Oftentimes the main issue is that BBs don't survive to close into secondary range, especially in larger open maps. Giving +1 heal is mainly relevant in late game, doesn't actually help with brawling. Also +15% conceal is basically giving the enemy 3km more time to prepare. Have fun getting burned down by every HE spamming cruiser and RN BB at high tiers. In mid tiers with closer range maps, then the skill can become absurdly broken as lack of concealment isn't a big detriment and it's easy to keep the -10% reload time. Also lol Massachusetts. 

3. Incendiary tracers is not well designed. Mainly useful in keeping near dead ships lit so you can finish them off. May see use in competitive, but is effectively the same as Pyro in random battles. Parthian tactics is too expensive for 4pts. Given how much Dazzle helped DDs, 5% worse dispersion won't be much better. +8% speed is also meh given the activation criteria. Either you are in too deep for +8% to matter, or you run out of range and deactivate the 8%. 

4. Makes Dazzle better in a competitive setting. In a random setting, still not worth the 4pts except for very specific playstyles. Overboost is a buff, not a change. Straight buff for torp ships. Gunboat DDs are either spotted when firing, or in smoke and not using the skill anyways,. Overboost does allow for interesting positional buffs 

5. Incoming BB players who always DCP 1 fire to boost their main gun reload. Also enhanced torp protection is still a joke. 

6. Armored AA batteries can be replaced by a far superior 125k credit Slot 1 upgrade. 

Flash protection is a complete joke of a skill that is completely replaced by 1 signal. Far better to take Magazine mod 1. 

 

1. I think we can see Deadeye tuned down a bit, maybe not the way I changed the skill. Maybe something like "-10% dispersion while undetected by enemy ship or plane."

2. It is meant to be a risky skill, huge payoff if you can get the right situation to use it.

3. Incendiary tracers could be a skill that breaks Deadeye by increasing a ship's detection. Overall effect is small for yourself but benefits your team as a whole. Given how hard it is to hit kiting ships at range, I didn't want to make Parthian tactics too powerful. Unlike dazzle, the effect is indefinite.

4. A small buff to Dazzle would be good, right now the skill isn't worth taking. Gunboat DDs can use Overboost too, just not while spamming HE. It just doesn't make sense that being spotted somehow slowed your ship down.

5. Good players will use the dcp sparingly. Bad players will burn to death faster. 

6. Yes. I'm aware of the upgrade. The skill can stack with that upgrade so a single RN BB shell doesn't break 11 gun mounts. This is also a secondary buff.

7. Flash protection will let you keep most of your health even if you detonate. Right now the game only gives you det flags if you die to a basically RNG mechanic. Yes, the skill doesn't really do much in actual battle, but knowing that if you can earn det flags without being forcefully shut out of a game by RNG gives the player tremendous comfort. Detonation should be fair if you're going to be hard pressed by complete RNG. Your ship might be crippled but not out of the fight.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×