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GiN_nTonic

New Jingles Vid reminds me why i left this game

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I've been wondering if WoWS was worth looking at again - i used to love this game.  However, the first part of Jingles new vid out gave a quick end to that idea.  

(1) World of Warships - Significantly More Russian - YouTube

Edit: To clarify its the CV aspect to the video.

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4 minutes ago, GiN_nTonic said:

I've been wondering if WoWS was worth looking at again - i used to love this game.  However, the first part of Jingles new vid out gave a quick end to that idea.  

(1) World of Warships - Significantly More Russian - YouTube

Russian Bias? I always thought that was like a troll complaint or something. Never heard of anyone quitting because of it though.

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2 minutes ago, Lose_dudes said:

Russian Bias? I always thought that was like a troll complaint or something. Never heard of anyone quitting because of it though.

No, its not the Russian Bias - its the "first part of the video" dealing with CVs.

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1 minute ago, GiN_nTonic said:

No, its not the Russian Bias - its the "first part of the video" dealing with CVs.

'CV so OP' 

wonder why people don't rush over to the other side of the map to headhunt CV instead of dds?

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Yet you’re still on the forums, lucky us. :Smile_smile:

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1 minute ago, Lose_dudes said:

'CV so OP' 

wonder why people don't rush over to the other side of the map to headhunt CV instead of dds?

Personally, i don't even classify it as an "OP" thing.  There are lots of OP ships that can be dealt with.  Its the fact you're doing battle with something that you simply can't strike back at, or have sufficient counter-play to which is frustrating.  I liken it to World of Tanks and arty, except that imagine if arty could go spot on its own by use of drones or some absurd mechanic.  CV's are the most poorly thought-through addition to this game.  The old CVs, devastating as they could be in the hands of a good player, at least had proper counter-play between AA spec and fighter defense.  

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2 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Yet you’re still on the forums, lucky us. :Smile_smile:

Don't worry, I just came back briefly for a little jab is all.  I'll be leaving soon again I promise.

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18 minutes ago, GiN_nTonic said:

No, its not the Russian Bias - its the "first part of the video" dealing with CVs.

You mean the part where a very good tier 10 CV smokes a tier 8 AA spec CA and his extremely damaged friends? That part?

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7 minutes ago, paradat said:

You mean the part where a very good tier 10 CV smokes a tier 8 AA spec CA and his extremely damaged friends? That part?

Its the "with impunity" part which makes it frustrating.  The fact the only counter-play WG gives players against CV's is being (1) a Cruiser, and (2) AA-build does nothing to actually counter that ship type is what is frustrating.  There is a good reason why this game is losing popularity and i'm just highlighting what is often expressed by the top players in the community.

I'm not alone in condemning the CV rework.  In fact, its probably the most "main-stream" complaint against this game by its core players.

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I'm not sure what WG uses for its success metric, but objectively this chart shows this game isn't growing and is actually sliding downward in population #s.  Interestingly, the game was picking up steam before the CV rework and now is slipping (albeit slowly) to retain and get new players.

 

metric.png

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1 minute ago, GiN_nTonic said:

Its the "with impunity" part which makes it frustrating.  The fact the only counter-play WG gives players against CV's is being (1) a Cruiser, and (2) AA-build does nothing to actually counter that ship type is what is frustrating.  There is a good reason why this game is losing popularity and i'm just highlighting what is often expressed by the top players in the community.

I'm not alone in condemning the CV rework.  In fact, its probably the most "main-stream" complaint against this game by the core players.

They could have pulled back they had the caps. DD could have gone dark. There were other options than clustering and rushing a ship that had the advantage. If the Hindy had not made that critical error it might have worked. 

Anyway Game is doing fine as far as popularity goes. 

As far as the CV rework goes it pretty much worked as intended. Took awhile to balance it but it is in a good place now. Dead class has been brought back to life. 

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22 minutes ago, GiN_nTonic said:

Personally, i don't even classify it as an "OP" thing.  There are lots of OP ships that can be dealt with.  Its the fact you're doing battle with something that you simply can't strike back at, or have sufficient counter-play to which is frustrating.  I liken it to World of Tanks and arty, except that imagine if arty could go spot on its own by use of drones or some absurd mechanic.  CV's are the most poorly thought-through addition to this game.  The old CVs, devastating as they could be in the hands of a good player, at least had proper counter-play between AA spec and fighter defense.  

By that logic you couldn't strike back at the RTS CV's. The reality is that you are fighting the planes and not the actual CV and were in the RTS days too. AA still works but the CV player does have a very good chance to get the first pass in but AA can make the later passes too expensive plane wise. It is only the tier 4 CV's against the tier 3 & 4 ships that can attack with impunity.

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1 minute ago, paradat said:

They could have pulled back they had the caps. DD could have gone dark. There were other options than clustering and rushing a ship that had the advantage. If the Hindy had not made that critical error it might have worked. 

Anyway Game is doing fine as far as popularity goes. 

As far as the CV rework goes it pretty much worked as intended. Took awhile to balance it but it is in a good place now. Dead class has been brought back to life. 

I don't think the game is doing as well as you think - though I agree its not tanking in population.  I played regularly with about 20 or so players who all quit the game as I did over the CV rework.  Did WG pick up 20 to replace those players due to the CV rework??...that i don't know.

By any rational measurement based upon just how disliked the CV rework was - as voiced continually by contributors like Jingles and others -  its hard to imagine this was a good thing for WG.  However, I am not in the know for whatever stats they're looking at.  

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1 minute ago, BrushWolf said:

By that logic you couldn't strike back at the RTS CV's. The reality is that you are fighting the planes and not the actual CV and were in the RTS days too. AA still works but the CV player does have a very good chance to get the first pass in but AA can make the later passes too expensive plane wise. It is only the tier 4 CV's against the tier 3 & 4 ships that can attack with impunity.

To give justice to RTS CV's, a Hinden and Cleveland bunching up would have eaten these squads for breakfast, especially if covered by their own Midway with actual fighters. Granted, you can argue for alpha strike potential, though that's up to discussion

You couldn't strike back at the RTS CV, but provided the player wasn't careful you could effectively render him impotent by eating at his reserves.

2 minutes ago, GiN_nTonic said:

I don't think the game is doing as well as you think - though I agree its not tanking in population.  I played regularly with about 20 or so players who all quit the game as I did over the CV rework.  Did WG pick up 20 to replace those players due to the CV rework??...that i don't know.

By any rational measurement based upon just how disliked the CV rework was - as voiced continually by contributors like Jingles and others -  its hard to imagine this was a good thing for WG.  However, I am not in the know for whatever stats they're looking at.  

The game has been in a state of very minor upward trend, almost stagnation for quite some time. The pandemic gave it a boost but that's about it and it's common in most MMOs anyway. Anyway, if you want to give the game a shot go ahead, though I'm not sure high tiers will be a pleasurable experience.

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1 minute ago, GiN_nTonic said:

I don't think the game is doing as well as you think - though I agree its not tanking in population.  I played regularly with about 20 or so players who all quit the game as I did over the CV rework.  Did WG pick up 20 to replace those players due to the CV rework??...that i don't know.

By any rational measurement based upon just how disliked the CV rework was - as voiced continually by contributors like Jingles and others -  its hard to imagine this was a good thing for WG.  However, I am not in the know for whatever stats they're looking at.  

I here you. The CV rework was a massive Meta change and a huge shock to player who started the game when the RTS CV's were more or less dead all ready. So it is understandable that players that built there gameplay on out skilling the enemy in very specific duals would have a big problem with a ship type that comes along and changes that dynamic. 

Having said that the game is now closer than ever to what they had hoped for in the beginning. It is more dynamic and varied. Some battles there are CV's and some not. Some battles with CV's it feels like that is your only concern and in some battles you hardly notice it. For me this has just added to the variety and for me variety is king for longevity in a game like this.

Shooty boats is still very fun and I have no trouble finding the fun. If we were still playing the game at say 6.0 I would like have moved on by now.

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2 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

By that logic you couldn't strike back at the RTS CV's. The reality is that you are fighting the planes and not the actual CV and were in the RTS days too. AA still works but the CV player does have a very good chance to get the first pass in but AA can make the later passes too expensive plane wise. It is only the tier 4 CV's against the tier 3 & 4 ships that can attack with impunity.

Yeah, but you'd have to admit the RTS had far more counter-play options.  I mean the RTS version had to aggressively conserve planes and could make a couple mistakes that left them crippled far easier than the current version.  I'd also say the RTS version pitted CV against CV far better - and again AA was a major issue to contend with.  The current CV play was dumbed down a lot, and in doing so WG also had to nerf AA to allow the genre to be easier to play.  

RTS wasn't ideal either, but it was far less annoying in my (and others) opinion.  The current meta is just straight up frustrating.

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1 minute ago, warheart1992 said:

To give justice to RTS CV's, a Hinden and Cleveland bunching up would have eaten these squads for breakfast, especially if covered by their own Midway with actual fighters. Granted, you can argue for alpha strike potential, though that's up to discussion

You couldn't strike back at the RTS CV, but provided the player wasn't careful you could effectively render him impotent by eating at his reserves.

You can still eat the reserves but they will likely still be able to put up a few planes. The current system was put in to avoid early deplaning which lead to the other team winning too often.

2 minutes ago, GiN_nTonic said:

Yeah, but you'd have to admit the RTS had far more counter-play options.  I mean the RTS version had to aggressively conserve planes and could make a couple mistakes that left them crippled far easier than the current version.  I'd also say the RTS version pitted CV against CV far better - and again AA was a major issue to contend with.  The current CV play was dumbed down a lot, and in doing so WG also had to nerf AA to allow the genre to be easier to play.  

RTS wasn't ideal either, but it was far less annoying in my (and others) opinion.  The current meta is just straight up frustrating.

If you do not aggressively conserve planes with the rework CV's you are still toothless even though you will put up a few planes but not enough to do much with.

 

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8 minutes ago, GiN_nTonic said:

Yeah, but you'd have to admit the RTS had far more counter-play options.  I mean the RTS version had to aggressively conserve planes and could make a couple mistakes that left them crippled far easier than the current version.  I'd also say the RTS version pitted CV against CV far better - and again AA was a major issue to contend with.  The current CV play was dumbed down a lot, and in doing so WG also had to nerf AA to allow the genre to be easier to play.  

RTS wasn't ideal either, but it was far less annoying in my (and others) opinion.  The current meta is just straight up frustrating.

LOL, some good points there but the main reason it was less annoying was because the class was dead. You could play all day and not get a CV game. If you played high tier and found a game with CV's then the best CV always won the game they were crazy dominant back then.

Yes there were more counter play and the CV had more offense. They still spotted for the team, could be in several places and once and even spotted Torps for the team. They could also set up their own cross drops and hit much harder than they do now. Finally of course and the biggest problem is they were just so niche. They were so different from the rest of the game that only a very small number of players played them.

I think that time is distorting you experience the current meta is not more frustrating as it was when RTS was king. 

If CV's are still a deal breaker for you just play tier 9. Very good ships there and far less CV's also tier 7.

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44 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Yet you’re still on the forums, lucky us. :Smile_smile:

the forum is entertaining, just ask the people with almost as much post as battles.

 

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1 minute ago, iBrowEcc0 said:

the forum is entertaining, just ask the people with almost as much post as battles.

 

Yep, if my posts ever catch my battles I will be done on the forum lol

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1 hour ago, GiN_nTonic said:

I've been wondering if WoWS was worth looking at again - i used to love this game.  However, the first part of Jingles new vid out gave a quick end to that idea.  

(1) World of Warships - Significantly More Russian - YouTube

Edit: To clarify its the CV aspect to the video.

The only thing that first part of the video proves is that if you let yourself get paddled while YOLO'ing a battleship, what little hull points you have left are yummy snacks for a CV. Those players tried to Win Harder and the paid for the bad play.

Also, the salt. Oh my god, the salt...

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Begone ghost of Christmas past. The holidays were 2 months ago...

Edited by Navalpride33
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3 minutes ago, paradat said:

Yep, if my posts ever catch my battles I will be done on the forum lol

you mean the other way around.

lol...posting is more fun than battles, focus on the fun stuff.:cap_like:

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2 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Why is the WOWS ghost of Christmas past in the forums ??? The holidays were 2 months ago...

maybe hoping for more economic flags from the crates since they are going away because wargaming wants a more grindy game.

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The guy in the video held his DFAA randomly choosing to not use it when it was off cool down and seemed to forget priority sector is a thing When he finally did use it he activates on a side so late that the enemy CV attack run has already gone by and his aircraft are on the other side of him. Some of the AA was damaged as he hit his ally Hindenburg with half a salvo of HE destroying some of the mounts on him. The CV also visibly loses aircraft over the duration of the fight as well as halfway through it he is only putting up half full squadrons. On top of all this he did little to maneuver against dive bombers just staying the course. Turning does significantly help against DB's as the ellipse is horizontal and turning either forces the DB's to turn as well if they can enough and make the reticle/spread huge or just flat out miss. On top of all this that's a 2 tier difference between those ships. If it was almost any other tier 10 ship in that scenario it probably could've won as well. I don't see what all the fuss about this is.

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