Make Random and Coop equal or make fairer Matches

[Angles_and_Dangles]

I know many others have expressed their dissatisfaction with the way gameplay has developed in Random, especially in the higher tiers. One words can describe random Battles nowadays: BORING.

Not much fun being forced to play the whole game from 20km out because any attempt to push in and play bold and aggressive only results in getting HE spammed to death from behind rocks or smoke, being targeted by multiple ships focused on just you (because your teammates just play safe and don't come in and support), being pummeled by ships with insane concealment to where you cant see them the whole game, long range stealth torpedoes swarms that come from out of nowhere, and overpowered CV aircraft you can't defend against or outmaneuver.

T9 and T10 ships should just play themselves. There is too much difference in capabilities when T7 and T8 ships are forced to play against T9/T10 ships far more powerful in firepower, stealth, and health. How does a Colorado do against a Pommern or  a Richelieu stack up against a Thunderer? And no T7 or T8 battleship or anything else has a chance in hell against a Shimakaze or T9/T10 super HE spammers hiding behind rocks. 

Thanks to this matchmaking for T7 and above ships I find it is actually more fun and interesting to play against Bots in Coop than it is against other players who have steered the gameplay to shite, and WG who created the monstrosities ruining the game. I'm fine with just playing Coop, but the only problem I have is how Coop battles grant less credits and XP than random.

How about making both formats co-equal to allow players to choose the type of play they want - those who like boring predictable battles and are only looking to rake in DP, by hiding their Smolensk or Des Moines behind the same rock all game, by all means play Random, it's all yours.

But those of us who want to play interesting unpredictable and fun matches against Bots (who actually play more realistically than many human players), shouldn't have to get penalized for it by getting less rewards.

[HamptonRoads]

It is all about risk-rewards.  Co-op has limited risk so less rewards, random bigger risk more rewards.  Scenarios/operations are the "middle ground" and offer better rewards than co-op, but less than random.

[Hukom]

9 minutes ago, USN_Submariner_TM said:

But those of us who want to play interesting unpredictable and fun matches against Bots (who actually play more realistically than many human players), shouldn't have to get penalized for it by getting less rewards.

I am a PVE main, and I totally disagree with your statement. We are not penalized, we are merely getting rewards commensurate for what can also be argued as a boring mode. Fun, yes, but ultimately boring with very little to no variation as to how the match plays out. 

11 minutes ago, USN_Submariner_TM said:

Two words can describe random Battles nowadays: BORING and TOXIC.

It can be boring, it can be toxic. But it can also be fun, especially when a group of strangers communicate and work together as a cohesive unit. And I've experienced that many times before.

Our experiences may and will often differ when it comes to Random Battles, but I don't agree in providing the same level of rewards to Co-op, primarily because it is unfair. The amount of effort to win in Co-op is way lower, what with all the dumb bots charging forward like there's no tomorrow.

[Sovereigndawg]

1 hour ago, HamptonRoads said:

Co-op has limited risk

How so? I have the same number of hit points, bots aim better than most players. Less hit points on the board to start. No one hangs back or they don't have a chance at getting any points. I lose more games, when it's a full team of humans than I do if it's just me and bots. Bots evade torps better than humans almost every time. I spend the same amount of cash for premiums and for premium time. If anything there is more risk at playing Co op, because you make so much less base XP that you are excluded from some missions, so much so that, you might run out of time to get the Hizen, even though you paid the prerequisite 4 stages. I could go on, but my point is that the price is the same, you hit the battle button.

[SteelRain_Rifleman]

Wait..Randoms is boring? By all accounts by the top clans, the creamiest corn, of the creamiest crop, Randoms is ThunderDome. Resplendent with cheerleaders and sycophants. Skill? There is that too. Bean bag toss HE to ships for FIRE! Lob AP from postal code range with AP. Slide in like a ninja with torps as a DD. Fly around and annoy everyone with a CV. Die gloriously in a cruiser for your clan emperor or stream lords!

Randoms is supposed to be exciting, spicy according to WG. Fun and engaging. 

Are you sure you logged in to the right game?

Granted, the economy needs some adjusting in co-op. Missions yet again. (If we ever get new ones). Economy has always been an issue. That takes analysis. 

Maps need a refresh. It is easy to predict where a cruiser likes to hide now, so BB hunters just....

Leave out a tin of caviar for Russian cruisers or a bunch of kittens with one cute chihuahua watching over them.

RN, it is a bottle of Sailor Jerry or Margaret Thatcher in a suggestive outfit.

USN, a filthy magazine or Steak Dinner.

French, A filthier magazine or Nutella.

Italy, a picture of a very young Sophia Loren when she had a wardrobe malfunction or "One spicy meatballa!"

Euro, a Valkyrie that wears something akin to the movie Heavy Metal or a bunch of wolf puppies.

IJN, a collection of questionable reading material from Akibahara or Sailor Moon with her Sailor Scouts on a raft.

Australia, Koala bears or a bunch of kittens. Gets them every time.

Vampires, Dr Pepper, Chocolate Chip Cookie Blizzard.

South America, Shakira.(If you saw her at a cap, you must investigate!)

India, A Bollywood Movie Collection.

Canadian, Captain MacGyver on a raft asking to be rescued. (I know, that is suspicious.)

Hunting cruisers has become too easy. WG needs to make new maps. Or Randoms will be filled with Wilhelm Screams.

 

[Zolors]

[_WaveRider_]

5 hours ago, HamptonRoads said:

It is all about risk-rewards.  Co-op has limited risk so less rewards, random bigger risk more rewards.  Scenarios/operations are the "middle ground" and offer better rewards than co-op, but less than random.

Risk - Rewards. I understand what you mean, but never understood the risk bit lol. What risk - being killed in a game?

Killed by a human - killed by a bot, makes no difference. This comes down to the easier gameplay in Co-Op which leads to better chances of victory, therefore the rewards for an easier victory should be less.

But risk? Not even in the heat of an exciting battle in game, where someone making a decision to go left or right could lead to death  - can we really say it is a risk? Risk means there is something at stake, we may regret a decision made, we may wish we played better, but in the end we just press the Battle button again; there is no risk.

 

[HamptonRoads]

9 hours ago, Sovereigndawg said:

How so? I have the same number of hit points, bots aim better than most players. Less hit points on the board to start. No one hangs back or they don't have a chance at getting any points. I lose more games, when it's a full team of humans than I do if it's just me and bots. Bots evade torps better than humans almost every time. I spend the same amount of cash for premiums and for premium time. If anything there is more risk at playing Co op, because you make so much less base XP that you are excluded from some missions, so much so that, you might run out of time to get the Hizen, even though you paid the prerequisite 4 stages. I could go on, but my point is that the price is the same, you hit the battle button.

Risk might have been a poor choice of words on my part (see below.)  But it is far easier to inflict damage, get caps, shoot down aircraft, etc. in co-op than in random.  Bots DO NOT evade torpedoes better than humans.  Typical torpedo hit rate in random is less than 10%, in co-op that number is over 20%.  Main gun accuracy is also better in co-op by about 50%.

4 hours ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Risk - Rewards. I understand what you mean, but never understood the risk bit lol. What risk - being killed in a game?

Killed by a human - killed by a bot, makes no difference. This comes down to the easier gameplay in Co-Op which leads to better chances of victory, therefore the rewards for an easier victory should be less.

But risk? Not even in the heat of an exciting battle in game, where someone making a decision to go left or right could lead to death  - can we really say it is a risk? Risk means there is something at stake, we may regret a decision made, we may wish we played better, but in the end we just press the Battle button again; there is no risk.

 

I agree, "risk" may have been a poor choice of words, but I was hoping to avoid using terms like "easier" or comparative skill since often that leads to flame wars between Random and Co-op mains.

[_WaveRider_]

1 hour ago, HamptonRoads said:

I agree, "risk" may have been a poor choice of words, but I was hoping to avoid using terms like "easier" or comparative skill since often that leads to flame wars between Random and Co-op mains.

As stated, I get where you were coming from.

Co-Op is easier in that the chance of winning is greater - but tbh I've seen bots play better than some humans and in the end it is what you enjoy that makes the game enjoyable. I certainly enjoy the fact that Co-Op presents an in your face battle;  I play this game to shoot and kill stuff, not have some 20 min battle, dancing in and out of island cover (not that I don't use cover if I find the odds all of a sudden not in my favour!).

As I state each to their own - many may not understand why some get enjoyment out of a particular mode in a game, but to pretend one makes one person far more of an individual than another - well that they put such importance in a game is their bag lol. To me it is a game to enjoy.

[joedogboy68]

On 2/8/2021 at 10:43 PM, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

Wait..Randoms is boring?

 

Yep, people hiding behind rocks and not doing anything resembling a naval battle.

[SteelRain_Rifleman]

47 minutes ago, joedogboy68 said:

Yep, people hiding behind rocks and not doing anything resembling a naval battle.

Oh, that.

Can you imagine how long those battles would last if say there was no time limit and no points to tally. Just sink the last ship of red and you win? 

It could take days. Would that not fulfill WG's desire for players to be on all the time? (Ginormous Lightbulb Just Went Off at WG)

..A streamer enters a convenience store wearing a mask because of the current world crisis...

Streamer: "I will have a case of water, energy drinks, that case of snacks, wipes, scenetd wipes, and these Huggies."

Convenience store owner: "Girl, do you know you got a man's undies on your head?"

Streamer: "Just do it! I have Apple pay! Don't make me get cross! Oh, and some cat food, litter, and that pickle in the jar."

Store owner: "Okay sister, here is your receipt. I pray you will chill in this cold weather."

Streamer: "I will show you chill, hahaahahahahahahahahhahahaha, hahahahhahahahahaha"

Streamer does a donut and leaves parking lot.

Such a meta could drive streamers to madness....

 

[HamptonRoads]

1 hour ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

Oh, that.

Can you imagine how long those battles would last if say there was no time limit and no points to tally. Just sink the last ship of red and you win? 

It could take days. Would that not fulfill WG's desire for players to be on all the time? (Ginormous Lightbulb Just Went Off at WG)

..A streamer enters a convenience store wearing a mask because of the current world crisis...

Streamer: "I will have a case of water, energy drinks, that case of snacks, wipes, scenetd wipes, and these Huggies."

Convenience store owner: "Girl, do you know you got a man's undies on your head?"

Streamer: "Just do it! I have Apple pay! Don't make me get cross! Oh, and some cat food, litter, and that pickle in the jar."

Store owner: "Okay sister, here is your receipt. I pray you will chill in this cold weather."

Streamer: "I will show you chill, hahaahahahahahahahahhahahaha, hahahahhahahahahaha"

Streamer does a donut and leaves parking lot.

Such a meta could drive streamers to madness....

 

At some point, players would just yolo in and make banzai charges to end the game (at least for them.) 

[SteelRain_Rifleman]

6 hours ago, HamptonRoads said:

At some point, players would just yolo in and make banzai charges to end the game (at least for them.) 

Yeah, after 12 or 13 days...

You forget the way these guys camp?

[joedogboy68]

Had one game with am empty sea map (no islands) - played out well in normal time.

Ships formed up and fought it out.


Would love to see that map more often.

 

[CowjoGrash]

So I get that with my limited time in game (at this point <400 battles), playing in higher tier Randoms, I am likely to get punished as I don't have the same grasp of the maps, player movement, and such at this point. I'm still learning these things and I pay for it sometimes when I make a mistake. EX: Unlocking Buffalo, trying to play a match that had CVs, move up to start island hopping and push a flank, get spotted by aircraft and subsequently one punched by an unspotted Georgia 3 minutes into the game. That was a fun welcome to T9 lol.

I will say though that the Random match making could be fixed. One of my first rounds with T6 New Mexico I was thrown into a match with T9 ships. One of my teammates was pissed we were going to lose the match and blamed it on me, wanting everyone to report me for playing badly. My fault in this: deciding to play a ship class I don't normally play with and being put into a high tier game where on top of that I was positioned on the flank where the enemy team ended up not pushing, so I was stuck in my extremely slow BB trying to get into the fight and never was able to. That game sucked as that ship had no business in that fight.

I've gone back to playing Co-op because it's currently more fun and brawling doesn't get punished on the same level. I think they could make some adjustments to it that could allow for it to be better and potentially more appealing. My idea: within Co-op create difficulty levels that can be selected prior to the match. Each level comes with different levels of XP/credits based on the difficulty. Bots could increase in their ability to aim and land shots, maneuvering/positioning, playing as a team. This would also benefit the player by helping further develop skill level too. IDK, just my rambling thoughts.

[Ship_of_Mighty_Pew_Pew]

I think WG listened regarding making coop more challenging. It seems the bots have been practicing while we sleep.

If you have not played coop in a while please take a minute to go take a look.

I agree with the original poster, it is more fun to play a bot than it is to have all the BBs hiding behind rocks and have a dd mention and I quote "I'm scared" as to why they won't do their job during a RANKED MATCH. Not kidding, it happened.