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tm63au

PEF 1941 Ahistorical Refit ? So Where Is Her Torpedoes And Or Fighter !!!!

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I asked this quite a time back, the ship's supposed  Ahistorical story based on WG is that she is the hull refitted in 1941 for WWII.

Image result for PEF world of warships

So OK why does she not have a torpedo suite and or at least a fighter squad ?.

Its stands to reason given that for instance, Bayern is given a float plane.

 If anyone knows the ships test history it was originally going to be a fast Battlecruiser design with a powerful AA suite.

And for short time until the CV / AA rework the AA was quite effective, now its hit and miss.

It was also going to be brawler but the guns were nerfed just in the last test iteration.

If there basing this design on the perceived history of German ship design this ship at the very least would have torpedoes.

All German ships from DD's above were armed with torpedoes with one class exception, the old Deutschland class Pre Dreadnoughts to the best of my knowledge .

Considering secondary builds for German Battleships are now almost irrelevant, the ship needs something.

It does not have hydro or DFAA, it needs something !

      

 

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That's a fine idea. Where are you going to put them?

It's not just the deck space; it's the space underneath for the traversing gear (and potentially a hangar for the airplane). Where is all this stuff going to go?

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there are alot of ships in the game that 'should' have a float plane and don't get one. Some even have a lonely catapult with no aircraft on it.

your 'all german ships got torpedos' also doesn't ring true as the only Tech Tree German BB in the game with torpedos is Gneisanau. All the other German BBs lack them, other then some Premiums.

 

What we have is what we get. WG 'supposedly' does not nerf or buff premium ships. Dont get me wrong, it was nerfed, but the nerf was global, not specific to one ship.

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21 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

That's a fine idea. Where are you going to put them?

It's not just the deck space; it's the space underneath for the traversing gear (and potentially a hangar for the airplane). Where is all this stuff going to go?

If he is talking historic then I would assume he would expect them to put the items where they put them in real life.

If we are talking game, then put them where they put the never-ending ammunition and torpedo stocks of every other ship in the game.

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37 minutes ago, Lord_Slayer said:

All the other German BBs lack them, other then some Premiums.

Which, to be fair, PEF is.

38 minutes ago, Lord_Slayer said:

WG 'supposedly' does not nerf or buff premium ships.

They buff 'em individually (Oklahoma recently got her reload shortened, for instance), but nerfs have to be global.

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2 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:
41 minutes ago, Lord_Slayer said:

WG 'supposedly' does not nerf or buff premium ships.

They buff 'em individually (Oklahoma recently got her reload shortened, for instance), but nerfs have to be global.

That’s only true to a certain degree. An unfortunate consequence of the “never nerf premiums” policy is that in order for a premium ship to get a buff, there has to be a major problem. After all, WG has to get it right and can’t risk buffing the ship too much.

A lot of older premium ships have been gradually power crept a bit over the last few years, but unfortunately we are unlikely to see any adjustments.

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24 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

That’s only true to a certain degree. An unfortunate consequence of the “never nerf premiums” policy is that in order for a premium ship to get a buff, there has to be a major problem. After all, WG has to get it right and can’t risk buffing the ship too much.

Hence why they only took two seconds off the OK's reload, instead of pulling it all the way down immediately to Texas/Arizona levels. They might buff it again for all I know, but OK owners might be waiting a few more patches for that.

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12 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Hence why they only took two seconds off the OK's reload, instead of pulling it all the way down immediately to Texas/Arizona levels. They might buff it again for all I know, but OK owners might be waiting a few more patches for that.

It seems that WG intentionally released both OK and KS in an underpowered state, and had buffs waiting in the wings for quick implementation if the ships underperformed. With KS the concern was the broadside weight, I assume with OK it was the secondaries. Maybe the internal testing of the new skills showed she wasn’t going to be a monster?

Anyway, regarding PEF in particular, I doubt she will be adjusted any time in the near future. She is a strong contender for BB that benefitted the most from the skill changes, as the changes to the secondary skills have been a boon for lower tier BBs. PEF in particular has always had a very powerful secondary armament, but the potential was limited by the paltry bonus from MFCSA. Pre-0.10.0 I was an advocate for giving her DFAA to return some of her old AA potential that she had in the first month or so after her release, but now I’m not so sure.

Edited by Nevermore135

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Just now, Nevermore135 said:

Anyway, regarding PEF in particular, I doubt she will be adjusted any time in the near future.

I share those doubts. I think she's a meh to good ship, BUT on the cusp of being a monster if they buffed the wrong thing the wrong way. 

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Technically speaking, her secondaries got a buff from the captain skill rework. Ships T6 and below mostly got range increases and have better accuracy than they did before, it's only T7 and above that got secondaries nerfed by the rework. Add to that the main battery reload buff from one of the secondary skills and she's actually a very strong brawler now. At the very least, she's darn useful for operations usage.

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38 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

If he is talking historic then I would assume he would expect them to put the items where they put them in real life.

If we are talking game, then put them where they put the never-ending ammunition and torpedo stocks of every other ship in the game.

So well said it's amazing:Smile_great:.  Thank you for pointing this out.  I was a Gunner's Mate in the Navy and worked on 5 inch guns on 3 different ships.  Several things you guys are missing ( in order to be historically accurate ) is the Hot Gun scenario.  That is where the gun barrel gets so hot that it cooks off the powder and the gun fires whether you want it to or not.  A very dangerous situation.  Also, the first destroyer I was on carried a maximum loadout of 12 torps, a 3 tube launcher on each side.  That was it, 12 torps and you are DONE.  And I also see a lot of complaints of how many aircraft the carriers have.  So, the seemingly never ending supply of weapons ( without the hazards ) is what makes this an arcade game because if they actually put historical physics into this game, most of them wouldn't last long enough to get a result anyway.  You would have battleship barrels exploding as well as cruisers and destroyers and the carriers would have wrecked and damaged planes all over the flight deck and be out of commission for most of the 20 minute battle.  Be careful about asking for "historical" stuff because if you haven't lived it, you don't think about the consequences of firing several hundred rounds out of your guns.  There is enough to keep you busy in this game already.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

That's a fine idea. Where are you going to put them?

It's not just the deck space; it's the space underneath for the traversing gear (and potentially a hangar for the airplane). Where is all this stuff going to go?

You its  a good point where to put either torpedoes or a plane, well i had look there some possible places.

lets start with torpedoes .

shot-21_02.09_01_06.14-0217.thumb.jpg.766c6e4031cc24f08e15de981a17aca8.jpg  

I don't have the now how to create arrows however if look the area here between these to single secondary gun turret positions, you could cut the wall out and have a launcher there on either side, it may be a tight fit but you could get them there.

shot-21_02.09_01_06.22-0672.thumb.jpg.cc4877f08608e496bdc67f05b2c2638c.jpg    

Again cutting the wall out sitting on the lower deck under cover between the two main turrets possibly ?.

shot-21_02.09_01_07.10-0648.thumb.jpg.c514f76f5e83916d547c83deb9ca06c9.jpg

Of course the most obvious choice rather than cutting sections out have them sitting on the stern like Admiral Graf Spee and Odin, just remove the boats.

 

Planes

shot-21_02.09_01_07.51-0704.thumb.jpg.634d0c8b4569db70be287c46281afd21.jpg   

Konig centre line turret has catapult so this could be done for PEF

shot-21_02.09_01_08.13-0139.thumb.jpg.563bc764fa639a3f4916ccf783350845.jpg

Her last turret could have a catapult fitted as does Bayern

shot-21_02.09_01_23.05-0642.thumb.jpg.caf76a4244df7c1cdb0b79ca1f43f2d9.jpg

As you can see Bayern has no hanger also Konig but no one seems to mind about the ships configurations.

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42 minutes ago, CaptHarlock_222 said:

Technically speaking, her secondaries got a buff from the captain skill rework. Ships T6 and below mostly got range increases and have better accuracy than they did before, it's only T7 and above that got secondaries nerfed by the rework. Add to that the main battery reload buff from one of the secondary skills and she's actually a very strong brawler now. At the very least, she's darn useful for operations usage.

The new secondary buff for PEF does not even come close, this ship is a premium ship that had the original premise of being powerful AA Battlecruiser with good guns, the last testing phase seen its guns nerfed.

The CV rework had its AA nerfed, then through various patches and mini patches the AA was made OP then UP, back and forth until what it is now which to be honest is a shadow of its former self.

Again I would like to point out Premiums have a gimmick or two, PEF now has none more or less, no DFAA , no Hydro in fact apart this minor buff to secondaries via a GENERAL Captain skill bonus ( questionable at best ) it could pass as a Tech tree ship for all intense and purpose.

And people did pay real money for it ! 

    

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4 hours ago, tm63au said:

well i had look there some possible places.

You have to ask yourself the question: "What is that space actually used for?"

Do some reading and you'll find that there's a lot on the inside which won't take kindly to having torpedo handling gear shoehorned in there.

The plane is a point of contention, and it's important to note that when I first bought the Texas back in 2018, she didn't have a spotter. She does now. Who knows what the future might bring?

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3 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You have to ask yourself the question: "What is that space actually used for?"

Do some reading and you'll find that there's a lot on the inside which won't take kindly to having torpedo handling gear shoehorned in there.

The plane is a point of contention, and it's important to note that when I first bought the Texas back in 2018, she didn't have a spotter. She does now. Who knows what the future might bring?

Couldn't agree more there would be things removed if they were fitted amidships or concealed aft, that's  why my best suggestion was topside on the stern of the ship with the removal of the boats.

I would also point although WG try to make everything authentic we are not really designing a real ship its pixel.

You also put the question to me about housing said torpedoes and I have done so you requested, I have given you my thoughts and options on the matter. 

They to me are the options that to me might be be workable.

cheers    

Edited by tm63au

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11 hours ago, tm63au said:

no Hydro in fact apart this minor buff to secondaries via a GENERAL Captain skill bonus ( questionable at best ) it could pass as a Tech tree ship for all intense and purpose.

Two things come to mind here.

1) I get the idea that you expect premium ships to be more powerful than tech-tree as a general rule. Sorry, no.

2) Your spelling and grammar do you no credit.

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3 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Two things come to mind here.

1) I get the idea that you expect premium ships to be more powerful than tech-tree as a general rule. Sorry, no.

2) Your spelling and grammar do you no credit.

You seem determined to nit pick just about every post I write, whether you think its my lack of knowledge on the internal structure and design of ships or now my grammar.

And to answer your question on premium ships, no I don't  but to the best of my knowledge WG has provided said premium ships with at least something unique.

And yes you are again correct tech tree ship should by stronger hence hull up grades and other equipment.

However I'm certain you will correct me on my statement on all  premium with unique traits.

PEF would had quite good guns and a formidable AA suite but the guns were nerfed Pre release and the AA reduced to a shadow ( my humble opinion ) to its former self.

If you feel a set of torpedo tubes to much how about DFAA then to compensate the AA reduction ?. 

As for my grammar guilty as charged, I tend to type faster than what I am collating the sentence in my head and my post checking still needs some work :Smile_Default:

OFF with my head.

On a off topic caught your T - 61  Video sometime back, nice work, starting watching your Russian bias have yet to finish watching it. 

cheers     

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23 hours ago, tm63au said:

Considering secondary builds for German Battleships are now almost irrelevant, the ship needs something.

I'd go a simpler route. Give the PEF's main guns better pen, since to me that's where the ship's real weakness lies.  Giving her float planes just seems like a wasted effort.

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22 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Hence why they only took two seconds off the OK's reload, instead of pulling it all the way down immediately to Texas/Arizona levels. They might buff it again for all I know, but OK owners might be waiting a few more patches for that.

I have an Oklahoma in my Port, but I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for that.  :Smile_veryhappy:

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22 hours ago, Nevermore135 said:

It seems that WG intentionally released both OK and KS in an underpowered state, and had buffs waiting in the wings for quick implementation if the ships underperformed. With KS the concern was the broadside weight, I assume with OK it was the secondaries. Maybe the internal testing of the new skills showed she wasn’t going to be a monster?

Anyway, regarding PEF in particular, I doubt she will be adjusted any time in the near future. She is a strong contender for BB that benefitted the most from the skill changes, as the changes to the secondary skills have been a boon for lower tier BBs. PEF in particular has always had a very powerful secondary armament, but the potential was limited by the paltry bonus from MFCSA. Pre-0.10.0 I was an advocate for giving her DFAA to return some of her old AA potential that she had in the first month or so after her release, but now I’m not so sure.

Quote

CaptHarlock_222

Technically speaking, her secondaries got a buff from the captain skill rework. Ships T6 and below mostly got range increases and have better accuracy than they did before, it's only T7 and above that got secondaries nerfed by the rework. Add to that the main battery reload buff from one of the secondary skills and she's actually a very strong brawler now. At the very least, she's darn useful for operations usage.



You (both) make an interesting point about the previous skill (Manual Fire Control for Secondary battery) compared to current 0.10.0 updated skills.
I had overlooked how the new/current skills don't care what tier the ship is.  Tier-1 through Tier-10, the skills that improve secondary battery performance work the same, and don't change from Tier-7 and up.

 

Edited by Wolfswetpaws
Edited to include CaptHarlock_222 's contribution

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6 hours ago, tm63au said:

PEF would had quite good guns and a formidable AA suite but the guns were nerfed Pre release and the AA reduced to a shadow ( my humble opinion ) to its former self.

IMHO she was at risk of overshadowing the Scharnhorst; and as I've already said, I (subjectively) think this is one of those ships for which the wrong buff to the wrong thing could risk turning her instantly from meh to monster. In an environment where such a change could not be wound back without major repercussions, I can appreciate why they thought it safer to put her out the way she is now. (That doesn't necessarily mean I agree; just that I can see why they did it and what they sought to avoid.)

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