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Helstrem

Welp, I've had enough.

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Couldn't take camping at the back of the map trying to keep Dead Eye active.  I hate camping at the back.

After yet another boring, tedious loss trying to snipe at 24km I throw in the towel.  It just isn't fun, even if it is "optimal".  Sorry, fun matters.

 

I respecced my Shikishima to full secondaries and took it out.  I pushed up, not suicidally, but usefully.  While I did not survive, we won, I topped the team, did 161k damage, 5 citadels and a dev strike.  It is true that the secondary spec played little role and I'd have probably been better off with a tank (no Dead Eye) build, but the 10% faster main battery reload was nice, and the secondaries did scare off a DD.  This was the most enjoyable Tier X match I've had since the captain skill rework.

I may not keep it full secondary, but I have some time to decide.  For now, no more Dead Eye.  If it isn't optimal, so be it.  I'd rather be suboptimal and have fun.

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14 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

Couldn't take camping at the back of the map trying to keep Dead Eye active.  I hate camping at the back.

After yet another boring, tedious loss trying to snipe at 24km I throw in the towel.  It just isn't fun, even if it is "optimal".  Sorry, fun matters.

 

I respecced my Shikishima to full secondaries and took it out.  I pushed up, not suicidally, but usefully.  While I did not survive, we won, I topped the team, did 161k damage, 5 citadels and a dev strike.  It is true that the secondary spec played little role and I'd have probably been better off with a tank (no Dead Eye) build, but the 10% faster main battery reload was nice, and the secondaries did scare off a DD.  This was the most enjoyable Tier X match I've had since the captain skill rework.

I may not keep it full secondary, but I have some time to decide.  For now, no more Dead Eye.  If it isn't optimal, so be it.  I'd rather be suboptimal and have fun.

I agree with this it’s not easy to do but this is a +1 . I have tried it myself died but had some fun . It is much easier to do in tier 7 and 8 where people still think they have to camp in the back . But they really don’t need to just move up it’s not purple snippers every where it’s  47% players with bad aim like me . Let’s start a move up movement . 

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I think a lot of people are going to start coming to your realization. And while Secondary spec Shiki might not be optimal I don't think camping 24km with Deadeye is either. Deadeye doesn't provide enough benefit to keep people camping the way they are right now. I think over the next few weeks people will start moving forward as they figure out that A) they still can't hit squat from the A line, and B) even if they can it's boring as all get out.

I think I'm just going to start speccing my BBs as I always have and use islands to move up and blast some people at close range. Don't need Deadeye if you're less than 10km:cap_rambo:

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Dead Eye is pretty dependent on some one spotting for you and is completely useless in Co op in my opinion. It seems to me in Randoms now the teams should use the bots strategy and the whole team charges takes out the non camping DDs and cruisers then concentrate the teams fire on the campers one by one. I don't do Randoms anymore, it was always a bunch of campers that never worked together, you had to wait, wait, wait, so if you wanted to get into the action there was no back up most of the time. If I wanted to wait a lot in a game, I would play Chess. This is a first person shooter game for Gods sake. I think Dead Eye is a waste of 4 points in any game mode.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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I expect changes to the new skills, Deadeye in particular so people should not get too attached to it as it currently is.

Edited by BrushWolf
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Just push up kill the dd and deadeye is good to go is what I’ve found

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For me the main problem is secondaries are nowhere near as good as they used to be in terms of accuracy so putting points into buffing them is worthless. Even more so when you have thunderers shooting he with accuracy from across the map. Mind none of that means one should be at max range except in a thunderer because of the baked in accuracy, just that i dont think secondaries are worth specimg into outside of clan or ranked battles.

Edited by monpetitloup

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Deadeye is a marginal skill at best, providing a small bonus at the expense of any and all flexibility. For some reason everyone lost their minds when they saw that 10% bonus to dispersion, without realizing how much that they'd be sacrificing to get it. For the majority of the ships out there it's a trap skill that just serves as confirmation bias to people that like to imagine that it's a big deal.

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2 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

I expect changes to the new skills, Deadeye in particular so people should not get too attached to it as it currently is.

I don't.Its a four point skill, so kiss goodbye nerfbat, because something must be offered for those. Otherwise they will have to redesign the whole tree whilst admitting guilt and.....we talk about Weegee here. Not to mention all those angry blueeyed snipers..... 

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I have removed Deadeye from all but a couple of my commanders.  Firstly, because I don't think it gives much of an accuracy advantage for enough of the game to be worth 4 points.  Secondly, because I just don't like it for what it is doing to the average battleship player who thinks it is some kind of godsend.

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WG has done the favor of killing secondary build in ships that could be using it semi- effectively, even if not optimal, like the Shikishima. The morons should have kept the 60% dispersion buff, if not buffed it, instead of nerfing the hell out of it while keeping it extremely expensive. Buffing the dispersion of a few select ships, and still making them inferior to before, is nowhere near close to making it up for nerfing the skill.

That is the variety of equally effective builds they advertised.

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i had deadeye on a few ships, and came to the conclusion as many of us did, it's bad for the game, and bad for gameplay. I have it on 1 ship, and it's a ship i always played from a distance anyways, so it didn't affect that one. But, secondary builds are useless, so i have 235 + ships with no commander skills picked, and 4 set up that i play. The other ships will sit in port until next christmas for the snowflake event. 

 

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9 hours ago, Helstrem said:

Couldn't take camping at the back of the map trying to keep Dead Eye active.  I hate camping at the back.

After yet another boring, tedious loss trying to snipe at 24km I throw in the towel.  It just isn't fun, even if it is "optimal".  Sorry, fun matters.

I literally just decided to stop playing and fill out my 2020 taxes. That's how much fun I'm not having in the game right now. The fact that WG has said NOTHING about what they're thinking with the way that this "live test" is going, pisses me off to no end. My two favorite ship types are shells of what they were (secondary BBs and super cruisers.)

Meh. 

Taxes... blech. 

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9 hours ago, Helstrem said:

I may not keep it full secondary, but I have some time to decide.  For now, no more Dead Eye.  If it isn't optimal, so be it.  I'd rather be suboptimal and have fun.

Specing survival is always useful, no matter the range of the fight. That's what I'm packing.

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11 hours ago, Helstrem said:

For now, no more Dead Eye.  If it isn't optimal, so be it.  I'd rather be suboptimal and have fun.

Good for you!!  Let us pray that the wisdom will spread amongst the crowd.

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12 hours ago, Helstrem said:

Couldn't take camping at the back of the map trying to keep Dead Eye active.  I hate camping at the back.

After yet another boring, tedious loss trying to snipe at 24km I throw in the towel.  It just isn't fun, even if it is "optimal".  Sorry, fun matters.

 

I respecced my Shikishima to full secondaries and took it out.  I pushed up, not suicidally, but usefully.  While I did not survive, we won, I topped the team, did 161k damage, 5 citadels and a dev strike.  It is true that the secondary spec played little role and I'd have probably been better off with a tank (no Dead Eye) build, but the 10% faster main battery reload was nice, and the secondaries did scare off a DD.  This was the most enjoyable Tier X match I've had since the captain skill rework.

I may not keep it full secondary, but I have some time to decide.  For now, no more Dead Eye.  If it isn't optimal, so be it.  I'd rather be suboptimal and have fun.

Excellent! Always pursue the fun not the Meta. 

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8 hours ago, Bandi73 said:

I don't.Its a four point skill, so kiss goodbye nerfbat, because something must be offered for those. Otherwise they will have to redesign the whole tree whilst admitting guilt and.....we talk about Weegee here. Not to mention all those angry blueeyed snipers..... 

It has a huge buff with no direct negative which is why I foresee changes.

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4 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

It has a huge buff with no direct negative which is why I foresee changes.

IMHO the "direct negative" would be that it coaxes you into a completely mind-numbing, boring playstyle. Heck it's not even a playing a SNIPER in the traditional sense, since snipers had to rely on stealth, careful planning & positioning as well as timing to be successful. 

The standard "DeadEye Play" just seems to involving hanging around way at the back mindlessly clicking when targets of opportunity appear, in my book that's putting 4 points into a skill to intentionally ruin your own enjoyment of the game.

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1 minute ago, WaywardVariable said:

IMHO the "direct negative" would be that it coaxes you into a completely mind-numbing, boring playstyle. Heck it's not even a playing a SNIPER in the traditional sense, since snipers had to rely on stealth, careful planning & positioning as well as timing to be successful. 

The standard "DeadEye Play" just seems to involving hanging around way at the back mindlessly clicking when targets of opportunity appear, in my book that's putting 4 points into a skill to intentionally ruin your own enjoyment of the game.

By direct I meant to say something like an increase in load time. The mind numbing play is indirect.

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It's a sad commentary on WG's development team that they push these changes out there with no idea what the consequences would be. It's really obvious that many of these changes are designed to push financial goals and the effect on game play does not even enter into the decisions.

 

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1 minute ago, BrushWolf said:

By direct I meant to say something like an increase in load time. The mind numbing play is indirect.

Understood, wouldn't the direct negative be the fact that it's a conditional activation, which means it *can* become completely worthless when the activation condition isn't met ? 

I saw this in one match over the weekend; We had 2 Thunderers that just sat in the back barely moving (wouldn't move up even we pushed on the flank they were sitting on), 2 of the enemy DD's were smart enough to run up the center and wolf pack both of the ThunTards who were completely caught off guard by what was happening to them and they had no Cruisers or DD's close enough to support them because they were so far back trying to protect that skill activation. Even though it was my team mates that were getting slaughtered I had to compliment both of those DD players (and I secretly enjoyed watching them do it!). 

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The reason why the optimal playstyle isn't working for you is because you aren't positioning correctly. Having deadeye doesn't mean that you should be sniping at 24km.

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12 hours ago, monpetitloup said:

For me the main problem is secondaries are nowhere near as good as they used to be in terms of accuracy so putting points into buffing them is worthless. Even more so when you have thunderers shooting he with accuracy from across the map. Mind none of that means one should be at max range except in a thunderer because of the baked in accuracy, just that i dont think secondaries are worth specimg into outside of clan or ranked battles.

The secondary build was a revolt against Dead Eye by going as opposite as possible.  Barring significant changes to enable the secondary build to be viable in the context of the actual game I do not expect to keep it and will likely do a full tank build.

4 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

Specing survival is always useful, no matter the range of the fight. That's what I'm packing.

That is where I will likely end up.  I dislike the pressure to keep at range that Dead Eye brings with it.  I want to be able to position as the tactical situation demands without feeling like I am gimping myself by doing so.

10 hours ago, Bandi73 said:

I don't.Its a four point skill, so kiss goodbye nerfbat, because something must be offered for those. Otherwise they will have to redesign the whole tree whilst admitting guilt and.....we talk about Weegee here. Not to mention all those angry blueeyed snipers..... 

1 hour ago, BrushWolf said:

It has a huge buff with no direct negative which is why I foresee changes.

1 hour ago, WaywardVariable said:

IMHO the "direct negative" would be that it coaxes you into a completely mind-numbing, boring playstyle. Heck it's not even a playing a SNIPER in the traditional sense, since snipers had to rely on stealth, careful planning & positioning as well as timing to be successful. 

The standard "DeadEye Play" just seems to involving hanging around way at the back mindlessly clicking when targets of opportunity appear, in my book that's putting 4 points into a skill to intentionally ruin your own enjoyment of the game.

1 hour ago, BrushWolf said:

By direct I meant to say something like an increase in load time. The mind numbing play is indirect.

1 hour ago, WaywardVariable said:

Understood, wouldn't the direct negative be the fact that it's a conditional activation, which means it *can* become completely worthless when the activation condition isn't met ? 

I saw this in one match over the weekend; We had 2 Thunderers that just sat in the back barely moving (wouldn't move up even we pushed on the flank they were sitting on), 2 of the enemy DD's were smart enough to run up the center and wolf pack both of the ThunTards who were completely caught off guard by what was happening to them and they had no Cruisers or DD's close enough to support them because they were so far back trying to protect that skill activation. Even though it was my team mates that were getting slaughtered I had to compliment both of those DD players (and I secretly enjoyed watching them do it!). 

I think the effect Dead Eye has had on the game is significantly outsized to its actual effectiveness.  That doesn't change the fact that it has had that effect.  What I would do to it is something like reduce the dispersion buff to somewhere like -4--6% and remove the need to not have any visible enemy ships in your detection radius.

1 hour ago, rhulkb27 said:

The reason why the optimal playstyle isn't working for you is because you aren't positioning correctly. Having deadeye doesn't mean that you should be sniping at 24km.

You read too much into an offhand range quip.  I've had "good" games using Dead Eye and keeping as close forward as I could while keeping it active.  I did not have fun in those matches.

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2 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

It has a huge buff with no direct negative which is why I foresee changes.

But again its a four point skill. What downside has the Cv's "Proximity Fuse"( what an idiotic name....) skill has?? Every change in this ref....just screams and point in one direction: the casual who just want to shoot some ships, democratising and dumbing down the play, ship lines and make the poor bastards buy more ships.That's what the "diversity" in Wg language( read in B.s) means.

The devs had got their directive and they come up with the ...'best" they could, even if it means effectively positioning a giant pile of smelling thing on the dinner table. I participated in enough... "team meetings" to know how this kinda things work. If the devs ( actually WG upper echelon the suited up idiots) truly wanted to appeal and to appease they would have come up with more battle modes and more ops. But no that's waay too much effort compared to this pos ref.....

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33 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

The secondary build was a revolt against Dead Eye by going as opposite as possible.  Barring significant changes to enable the secondary build to be viable in the context of the actual game I do not expect to keep it and will likely do a full tank build.

That is where I will likely end up.  I dislike the pressure to keep at range that Dead Eye brings with it.  I want to be able to position as the tactical situation demands without feeling like I am gimping myself by doing so.

I think the effect Dead Eye has had on the game is significantly outsized to its actual effectiveness.  That doesn't change the fact that it has had that effect.  What I would do to it is something like reduce the dispersion buff to somewhere like -4--6% and remove the need to not have any visible enemy ships in your detection radius.

You read too much into an offhand range quip.  I've had "good" games using Dead Eye and keeping as close forward as I could while keeping it active.  I did not have fun in those matches.

i just tried full secondary on georgia in coop. 43 hits after speed boosting into the midst of the bots. no manual sec, so all guns should be firing. that capt is getting reset.

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