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str1ngth3ory

I think WG is intentionally trying to discourage pushing up

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20210207_111339_PFSB110-France_37_Ridge.wowsreplay

I dislike Dead Eye, I try to spec for pushing up. In this case, I have fire prevention and concealment. Look at the replay. Toward the end, I try to flank the Bourgogne, and look at my shells. It's so much worse than shooting from 15-20km away. It's like a shotgun with an intentional ship shape dispersion. Shells land everywhere except the ship at 10 km. WG is telling me I should just stay 20 km away and pew pew.

 

 

Edited by str1ngth3ory
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And the problem with being 20 km away is....  really easy for ships - especially DDs/CAs but even BBs to avoid those far off shots by moving a little bit.  Basics of the game however is still there - command the caps and you win the vast, vast, vast majority of the games and to do that - most everyone must move up, smartly.

I have the opposite problem - everyone moves up and then stops right outside of the cap and watches them being taken.  Even if my team has a 2:1 ratio of ships and some times 3:1 and they just......  wait at the edge and watch it being taken.

In more than one game in the past week I have been in the Edinburgh with a 18 point captain and ZERO B modules and I am in the top 2 or 3 and even top XP earner with 489 base XP. 

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The ability to delete ships from 2 caps away already existed before the current patch...

The skill did not do anything to increase the capabilities of the BB class...


Get Gud.

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Dead-eye does not buff sigma values, so it helps the ships with good sigma but isn't even noticeable if the ship has bad sigma to begin with.

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17 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

The ability to delete ships from 2 caps away already existed before the current patch...

The skill did not do anything to increase the capabilities of the BB class...


Get Gud.

:Smile_great: Exactly this. 

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17 minutes ago, Fwb_Schultz said:

Dead-eye does not buff sigma values, so it helps the ships with good sigma but isn't even noticeable if the ship has bad sigma to begin with.

I think you may have that backwards.  Imagine a ship with an infinite sigma value.  It does not matter how big the assigned dispersion ellipse may be, all your shells will land exactly at your aim point.  Deadeye will be of no value to such a ship.  A WoWs ship with high sigma will already have a high percentage of shells land close to the aim point.  Those which will already be hits need no improvement.  For ships with lower sigma, whose shots will land more scattered throughout the dispersion ellipse, reducing that area by 19% potentially gives more shells a chance to move from “miss” to “hit”. 

Certainly, regardless of added skills, a higher sigma is always better.  A high sigma ship with deadeye should get more hits than a low sigma ship with deadeye (assuming good aim).  But I don’t think you can say that the low sigma ship benefits less.

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1 hour ago, Navalpride33 said:

The ability to delete ships from 2 caps away already existed before the current patch...

The skill did not do anything to increase the capabilities of the BB class...

It has always existed but it has been enhanced by DE.  Previously you had to pray hard to RNGesus to get that citadel at long range. I watched a recent Thunderer replay where it got 8 hits from a salvo on a BB at over 20K. With ships that have decent dispersion to begin with DE has made them very deadly. All while exposing their ship to minimal danger. The ability to long range delete ships has definitely gone up.

 

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1 minute ago, Sabot_100 said:

It has always existed but it has been enhanced by DE.  Previously you had to pray hard to RNGesus to get that citadel at long range.

The only "enhancement/improvement" I've noticed from watching countless YT videos on the topic...

  • 2 Rico are now hits (from the same salvo)...
    • The only difference from the current patch from last patch is only 2 extra "HITS" per salvo from long range...
      • This is dependent on the players aim.. Nothing else in the game mechanically has been changed or altered.

That is it...

Now the psychological impact of the skill ???Enormous and Detrimental...

As jingles noted, its not the skill itself or the facts about the performance of the skill, the change there is minuscule... It doesn't matter

  • Its fact, everyone in the game is acting/treating as though, Deadeye skill improved BBs accuracy by a lot as fact... When an actuality it has not... 

The Capabilities of the BB class haven't changed with the current patch... BB drivers are making drama over 2 more hits per salvo from long range.

 

 

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Is Deadeye a nerf to bad aimers in a ship with high sigma? :Smile_teethhappy::Smile_trollface:

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WG wants battleships to sit in the back because they're coming.....

Image result for yellow submarine gif

Seriously though I played a few battles today in my Bourgogne. All full T10 battles. Saw the usual suspects sitting in the back trying to use Dead Eye as I was burning them down. I moved up to my usual mid range position to kill the dds the team spots using my reload booster. If I started taking too much damage I just disengaged and relocated. I know everyone is upset about the rework, I don't like it either, but this almost mass hysteria is not needed. 

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1 hour ago, Navalpride33 said:

The only "enhancement/improvement" I've noticed from watching countless YT videos on the topic...

  • 2 Rico are now hits (from the same salvo)...
    • The only difference from the current patch from last patch is only 2 extra "HITS" per salvo from long range...
      • This is dependent on the players aim.. Nothing else in the game mechanically has been changed or altered.

That is it...

Now the psychological impact of the skill ???Enormous and Detrimental...

As jingles noted, its not the skill itself or the facts about the performance of the skill, the change there is minuscule... It doesn't matter

  • Its fact, everyone in the game is acting/treating as though, Deadeye skill improved BBs accuracy by a lot as fact... When an actuality it has not... 

The Capabilities of the BB class haven't changed with the current patch... BB drivers are making drama over 2 more hits per salvo from long range.

 

 

If you read my thread carefully, I am not doubling down on the "Dead Eye' skill itself. I am just saying the whole game design approach/philosophy is to discourage pushing up. My 10km dispersion has nothing to do with Dead Eye. It's the fact that my 10 km shots hit 1 out 8 shells in three consecutive salvos is really sad. Basically a Republique which could be melt by HE in 1-2 mins finally got the chance to push in and WG gives her the ability to hit 1 out 8 shells at 10 km is their design philosophy, they didn't start discouraging pushing up since this patch up. They have been doing it all along. This patch with Dead Eye just amplifies their intent.

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2 minutes ago, str1ngth3ory said:

If you read my thread carefully, I am not doubling down on the "Dead Eye' skill itself. I am just saying the whole game design approach/philosophy is to discourage pushing up. My 10km dispersion has nothing to do with Dead Eye. It's the fact that my 10 km shots hit 1 out 8 shells in three consecutive salvos is really sad. Basically a Republique which could be melt by HE in 1-2 mins finally got the chance to push in and WG gives her the ability to hit 1 out 8 shells at 10 km is their design philosophy, they didn't start discouraging pushing up since this patch up. They have been doing it all along. This patch with Dead Eye just amplifies their intent.

Here is more context from my post (post #3)...

The philosophy of the game haven't changed since 0.7 series patch ( I would argue the change started back with the original IJN torp DD nerf)....

In context, it really doesn't matter if someone likes deadeye skill or not... The abilities of the BB and the philosophy of the game haven't changed with the current patch...


BTW, the second part of the post you referenced (post #8), talks about the psychological POV... I'll quot it here for future reference...


 

"As jingles noted, its not the skill itself or the facts about the performance of the skill, the change there is minuscule... It doesn't matter

  • Its fact, everyone in the game is acting/treating as though, Deadeye skill improved BBs accuracy by a lot as fact... When an actuality it has not... 

The Capabilities of the BB class haven't changed with the current patch... BB drivers are making drama over 2 more hits per salvo from long range."

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1 hour ago, Navalpride33 said:

The only "enhancement/improvement" I've noticed from watching countless YT videos on the topic...

  • 2 Rico are now hits (from the same salvo)...
    • The only difference from the current patch from last patch is only 2 extra "HITS" per salvo from long range...
      • This is dependent on the players aim.. Nothing else in the game mechanically has been changed or altered.

That is it...

Now the psychological impact of the skill ???Enormous and Detrimental...

As jingles noted, its not the skill itself or the facts about the performance of the skill, the change there is minuscule... It doesn't matter

  • Its fact, everyone in the game is acting/treating as though, Deadeye skill improved BBs accuracy by a lot as fact... When an actuality it has not... 

The Capabilities of the BB class haven't changed with the current patch... BB drivers are making drama over 2 more hits per salvo from long range.

 

 

2 more hits can be 30k damage, or another fire and 10k damage.   Thats a huge impact on any ship.

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8 minutes ago, Rothgar_57 said:

2 more hits can be 30k damage, or another fire and 10k damage.   Thats a huge impact on any ship.

Deadeye releases and a whole lot of world record breaking videos come along. Shikishima is at 441k damage. But everything is fine. It is exactly like before.

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25 minutes ago, Rothgar_57 said:

2 more hits can be 30k damage, or another fire and 10k damage.   Thats a huge impact on any ship.

Depends on the aim of the player... Its not "automatic" nor is it "guaranteed."

If for example we remove the aiming and pretend that is not a major factor...

If we sample per salvo hit from 20km away hitting at a BB from last patch and the current one..

You'll end up with one or two extra "HITS" *REMEMBER, hits are pens over-pens or cits* scored instead of ricos or non pens*...Per salvo


Replace it with a cruiser and its a non issue because BBs (at high tiers) deleted cruisers from 2 caps away before the patch so the extra 2 hits is negated...

Cruisers were complaining in the forum about the situation then and BB driver drivers stated...

Get Gud!

The issue is nothing new... Its more excepted now because WG wants BBs to be the apex ship class in the game.

Edited by Navalpride33
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21 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Depends on the aim of the player... Its not "automatic" nor is it "guaranteed."

If for example we remove the aiming and pretend that is not a major factor...

If we sample per salvo hit from 20km away hitting at a BB from last patch and the current one..

You'll end up with one or two extra "HITS" *REMEMBER, hits are pens over-pens or cits* scored instead of ricos or non pens*...Per salvo


Replace it with a cruiser and its a non issue because BBs (at high tiers) deleted cruisers from 2 caps away before the patch so the extra 2 hits is negated...

Cruisers were complaining in the forum about the situation then and BB driver drivers stated...

Get Gud!

The issue is nothing new... Its more excepted now because WG wants BBs to be the apex ship class in the game.

Broadside cruisers were always easy to delete (some of them). But now we can deletr bow in cruisers far more easily. Even Petro is having a hard time tanking damage.

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6 minutes ago, WarStore said:

Broadside cruisers were always easy to delete (some of them).

Its not only one side... Running away, or bow tanking... It doesn't matter, "HITS" were the same before the current patch to sink a cruiser... 2 extra hits, who cares.. Its already dead with what is available beforehand.. 

Cruisers can be deleted at any angle, this is the case for light cruisers... 

Some cruisers you can negate some "HITS" from high caliber guns... Because of it, it does create disproportional situation and game play. Not good for the overall in match experience.

Edited by Navalpride33

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33 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Its not only one side... Running away, or bow tanking... It doesn't matter, "HITS" were the same before the current patch to sink a cruiser... 2 extra hits, who cares.. Its already dead with what is available beforehand.. 

Cruisers can be deleted at any angle, this is the case for light cruisers... 

Some cruisers you can negate some "HITS" from high caliber guns... Because of it, it does create disproportional situation and game play. Not good for the overall in match experience.

The cruiser cares about two extra hits per salvo from +457mm gun.

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2 minutes ago, WarStore said:

The cruiser cares about two extra hits per salvo from +457mm gun.

That would mean nothing if the outcome is still being sunk (for light cruiser) or less time alive (by mere seconds) for cruisers "with armor".

 

The change is minuscule...Its a non issue IMO

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11 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

That would mean nothing if the outcome is still being sunk (for light cruiser) or less time alive (by mere seconds) for cruisers "with armor".

 

The change is minuscule...Its a non issue IMO

Yeah, right

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The issue is that Deadeye just shows everyone how armor is worthless in this game for the most part. Deadeye hurts BB not because two extra hits per salvo but because 8 extra hits per salvo from 4 ships just absolutely melts BBs because armor angling just doesn't do enough anymore with the prevalence of either high caliber HE with insane fire chance or rapid fire HE. The fact that it is easier to get 2mil+ potential damage games in my Cruisers then my BBs now is a severe problem, BBs need to be able to actually tank damage if people expect them to actually do it.

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All the ships hanging  back have at least made incoming fire alert a meaningful skill.

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51 minutes ago, paradat said:

All the ships hanging  back have at least made incoming fire alert a meaningful skill.

Its kinda standard on my cruisers from before the rework. Maybe that's s why I've had no real issues with Deadeye... Just dodge as normal

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And when they add subs they will be hailed as heros for stopping the camp game. 

    

Edited by grorg

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