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SpinyMuffins

Carriers Nerfed?

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Anyone else frustrated by the recent carrier nerfs?

I recently upgraded to the Lexington, and  was generally liking it. It didn't seem over-powered, but I was able to play some good games.

After the last update, now I'm basically not able to do anything. The accuracy of the rocket fighters is so broad I can hit crapnow. The dive bombers were nearly useless before, but somehow they got even worse. Torpedo bombers seem about the same.

The other big change is now AA fire at the T7-8 level is insane. Before, I'd lose a plane or two with each strafing run. Now, even if I'm only attacking a single destroyer or cruiser, I'll lose an entire wave of fighters to AA fire before I'm even able to attack. And that's with the aircraft armor captain skill.

This has basically negated almost all impact of the carrier on gameplay. I can still scout, but that's it. I can't really damage ships in any meaningful way. Was that the goal of the nerf?

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Wut? The commander rework generally reduced AA across the board since BFT/AFT don’t boost them anymore. There weren’t any CV specific nerfs.

 

I’m doing ~10-20% more damage in my CVs...

Edited by Telastyn
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23 minutes ago, SpinyMuffins said:

Anyone else frustrated by the recent carrier nerfs?

I recently upgraded to the Lexington, and  was generally liking it. It didn't seem over-powered, but I was able to play some good games.

After the last update, now I'm basically not able to do anything. The accuracy of the rocket fighters is so broad I can hit crapnow. The dive bombers were nearly useless before, but somehow they got even worse. Torpedo bombers seem about the same.

The other big change is now AA fire at the T7-8 level is insane. Before, I'd lose a plane or two with each strafing run. Now, even if I'm only attacking a single destroyer or cruiser, I'll lose an entire wave of fighters to AA fire before I'm even able to attack. And that's with the aircraft armor captain skill.

This has basically negated almost all impact of the carrier on gameplay. I can still scout, but that's it. I can't really damage ships in any meaningful way. Was that the goal of the nerf?

A replay, plus screen-shots of your ship's equipment screen and the Commander's skills screen would be helpful.

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No changes announced to tech tree carrier strike craft.

Your seeing stronger AA builds due to 2 factors:

1 to increase dpm on dds, u also increase AA. To increase range on a dd, you also increase AA....

2 no viable skills, or left over points for cruisers and BB's who just slap it onto AA...

 

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56 minutes ago, Telastyn said:

Wut? The commander rework generally reduced AA across the board since BFT/AFT don’t boost them anymore. There weren’t any CV specific nerfs.

  

I’m doing ~10-20% more damage in my CVs...

That's only true on BB, CA got some nice AA skills and have the points to use them.

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23 minutes ago, Telastyn said:

Wut? The commander rework generally reduced AA across the board since BFT/AFT don’t boost them anymore. There weren’t any CV specific nerfs.

 

I’m doing ~10-20% more damage in my CVs...

Cruisers can get (2pt) Expert AA Marksman (+25% to Priority Sector AA, and +1 Flak Burst) and (4 pt) AA Gunner (+20% to Continuous AA and Flak damage)

Battleships can get (2 pt) AA Gunner (+10% to Continuous AA and Flak damage) and (3pt) Expert AA Marksman (+25% to Priority Sector AA, and +1 Flak Burst)

Destroyers can get (3 pt) Main Battery and AA Specialist (+10% to continuous AA damage and -5% to main battery reload time) and (4 pt) Main Battery and AA Expert (+15% to flak Damage, and +20% to main battery range)

 

CV's can get (3 pt) Aircraft Armor (-10% to continuous AA damage), (3 pt) Survivability Expert (+25 plane HP per tier, so it works out as about 10% more HPs on Lexington's torp bombers) and (4 pt) Enhanced Aircraft Armor (-25% to Flak damage)

Sight Stabilization is still there at 3 points, and Torpedo Bomber is a nice addition.

 

So, a CV has to spend 10 points to come out a little worse off against a cruiser that spent 6 points. and be a little better off against a battleship that spent 5. But it's not like there's much else for a CV top spend points on, but cruisers and battleships both have options other than building themselves as AA platforms.

A CV is a lot better off with the 10 points it's usually going to spend v/s a Destroyer's 7 points, but a gun destroyer is likely buying those skills anyway.

The real place CV's lost out was "Hidden Menace" and plane reserves. Only way to get extra reserves is Modification Slot 5, Flight Control Module 1 which is also where Concealment System Mod 1 goes. "Hidden Menace" is 4 points, and cuts the speed of returning squadrons in half, for -15% to detectability, and -20% to damage control reload, good running a meme Graf Zeppelin, terrible for making room to move your CV around. So expect to get sniped early in a match while your getting into cover more often.

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2 hours ago, SpinyMuffins said:

Anyone else frustrated by the recent carrier nerfs?

I recently upgraded to the Lexington, and  was generally liking it. It didn't seem over-powered, but I was able to play some good games.

After the last update, now I'm basically not able to do anything. The accuracy of the rocket fighters is so broad I can hit crapnow. The dive bombers were nearly useless before, but somehow they got even worse. Torpedo bombers seem about the same.

The other big change is now AA fire at the T7-8 level is insane. Before, I'd lose a plane or two with each strafing run. Now, even if I'm only attacking a single destroyer or cruiser, I'll lose an entire wave of fighters to AA fire before I'm even able to attack. And that's with the aircraft armor captain skill.

This has basically negated almost all impact of the carrier on gameplay. I can still scout, but that's it. I can't really damage ships in any meaningful way. Was that the goal of the nerf?

Excuse me?  I've been getting thrashed over the last couple of nights by  rocket planes, taking between 33% and 40/45% of my health.  Don't tell me that rocket planes can't hit crap.

As for upgrading from the Ranger to the Lexington, you're going to see  stronger AA.  That's just a fact of life for high tier CVs.

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3 hours ago, SgtBeltfed said:

Destroyers can get (3 pt) Main Battery and AA Specialist (+10% to continuous AA damage and -5% to main battery reload time) and (4 pt) Main Battery and AA Expert (+15% to flak Damage, and +20% to main battery range)

I find that MBAASpec (previously known as BFT) is a low priority 3 point skill behind Survivability Expert and Superintendent.  Also, the fact that the reload time buff is now smaller doesn't make it any more attractive. I will say that gunboats seem to find it easier to make room for AA skills than torp boats.

3 hours ago, SgtBeltfed said:

Cruisers can get (2pt) Expert AA Marksman (+25% to Priority Sector AA, and +1 Flak Burst) and (4 pt) AA Gunner (+20% to Continuous AA and Flak damage)

Maybe it's just me, but I find it pretty easy to free up points for these two AA skills on cruisers, when I compare them to other skills in the cruiser tree.

3 hours ago, SgtBeltfed said:

Battleships can get (2 pt) AA Gunner (+10% to Continuous AA and Flak damage) and (3pt) Expert AA Marksman (+25% to Priority Sector AA, and +1 Flak Burst)

I find it a little harder to make room for AA skills on BB commander builds, however.  One is faced with choosing between survivability skills and AA skills, among others.  And survivability skills usually seem to win out on BBs.

Edited by Crucis
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2 hours ago, Rouxi said:

That's only true on BB, CA got some nice AA skills and have the points to use them.

The two point skill is bad and the four point skill is, well, four points. I’ve found most of my cruiser commanders have plenty of more relevant skills to dump the extra points into...

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4 hours ago, SpinyMuffins said:

Anyone else frustrated by the recent carrier nerfs?

I recently upgraded to the Lexington, and  was generally liking it. It didn't seem over-powered, but I was able to play some good games.

After the last update, now I'm basically not able to do anything. The accuracy of the rocket fighters is so broad I can hit crapnow. The dive bombers were nearly useless before, but somehow they got even worse. Torpedo bombers seem about the same.

The other big change is now AA fire at the T7-8 level is insane. Before, I'd lose a plane or two with each strafing run. Now, even if I'm only attacking a single destroyer or cruiser, I'll lose an entire wave of fighters to AA fire before I'm even able to attack. And that's with the aircraft armor captain skill.

This has basically negated almost all impact of the carrier on gameplay. I can still scout, but that's it. I can't really damage ships in any meaningful way. Was that the goal of the nerf?

I did not notice any for Ranger or Lex.  At least not enough to make a difference.

German bombs continue to not hit anything but that is not new.

I have not logged a ton of flight hours but did not notice much. 

Edit.  I got the T8 and 9 French.  Put the sector priority and its much better than I remember.  Helena and Dallas are untouchable but Cleveland is.

Edited by jags_domain

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3 hours ago, SgtBeltfed said:

Cruisers can get (2pt) Expert AA Marksman (+25% to Priority Sector AA, and +1 Flak Burst) and (4 pt) AA Gunner (+20% to Continuous AA and Flak damage)

Battleships can get (2 pt) AA Gunner (+10% to Continuous AA and Flak damage) and (3pt) Expert AA Marksman (+25% to Priority Sector AA, and +1 Flak Burst)

Destroyers can get (3 pt) Main Battery and AA Specialist (+10% to continuous AA damage and -5% to main battery reload time) and (4 pt) Main Battery and AA Expert (+15% to flak Damage, and +20% to main battery range)

 

CV's can get (3 pt) Aircraft Armor (-10% to continuous AA damage), (3 pt) Survivability Expert (+25 plane HP per tier, so it works out as about 10% more HPs on Lexington's torp bombers) and (4 pt) Enhanced Aircraft Armor (-25% to Flak damage)

Sight Stabilization is still there at 3 points, and Torpedo Bomber is a nice addition.

 

So, a CV has to spend 10 points to come out a little worse off against a cruiser that spent 6 points. and be a little better off against a battleship that spent 5. But it's not like there's much else for a CV top spend points on, but cruisers and battleships both have options other than building themselves as AA platforms.

A CV is a lot better off with the 10 points it's usually going to spend v/s a Destroyer's 7 points, but a gun destroyer is likely buying those skills anyway.

The real place CV's lost out was "Hidden Menace" and plane reserves. Only way to get extra reserves is Modification Slot 5, Flight Control Module 1 which is also where Concealment System Mod 1 goes. "Hidden Menace" is 4 points, and cuts the speed of returning squadrons in half, for -15% to detectability, and -20% to damage control reload, good running a meme Graf Zeppelin, terrible for making room to move your CV around. So expect to get sniped early in a match while your getting into cover more often.

I run out of points quickly.

I would like sight stab and torp arm.  Together they work great.  But then cannot have the health skills.

 

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1 hour ago, Telastyn said:

The two point skill is bad and the four point skill is, well, four points. I’ve found most of my cruiser commanders have plenty of more relevant skills to dump the extra points into...

Other than the lighthouse build what exactly is taking up all your points?

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40 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

I run out of points quickly.

I would like sight stab and torp arm.  Together they work great.  But then cannot have the health skills.

 

Depending on the CV, not every CV is going to take Enhanced Aircraft armor, as either it won't be much help, or the player is good enough at dodging flak and can save the points for elsewhere. Same with the other types of ships.

The CV skills either stayed the same cost or got cheaper (Sight Stabilization was 4, now it's 3, the old survival skills used to be 3's) I always skipped out on Torpedo Acceleration because of the increased arming distance (wasn't listed because torpedoes are actually time fused in game, but you could look st the stats) Swift fish is worse, as it's only a 5% speed increase, and not a full 5 knots. Fortunately the increased arming distance is only 5% as well. 

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Pretty sure everyone views the rework as CV buffs. Lexington dive bombers are definitely far from useless as well. 

 

Could you send us a replay file and your capt build. 

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9 hours ago, SpinyMuffins said:

Anyone else frustrated by the recent carrier nerfs?

I recently upgraded to the Lexington, and  was generally liking it. It didn't seem over-powered, but I was able to play some good games.

After the last update, now I'm basically not able to do anything. The accuracy of the rocket fighters is so broad I can hit crapnow. The dive bombers were nearly useless before, but somehow they got even worse. Torpedo bombers seem about the same.

The other big change is now AA fire at the T7-8 level is insane. Before, I'd lose a plane or two with each strafing run. Now, even if I'm only attacking a single destroyer or cruiser, I'll lose an entire wave of fighters to AA fire before I'm even able to attack. And that's with the aircraft armor captain skill.

This has basically negated almost all impact of the carrier on gameplay. I can still scout, but that's it. I can't really damage ships in any meaningful way. Was that the goal of the nerf?

I played a couple of nights of tier 8 and 10 CV this week to do one of the Hizen missions, and I certainly didn't notice what you were describing.  CV's seem very capable, and I was quite successful.  Specifically I noticed no change in the ability of RF's and DB's to hit anything.

If anything I feel CV's are a touch stronger following the skills rework.  The skills for reduced torp arming distance, negating torpedo protection, and reducing damage taken from flak are all buffs, and I even quite liked the bomber speed skill on my Indomitable.

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24 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

I played a couple of nights of tier 8 and 10 CV this week to do one of the Hizen missions, and I certainly didn't notice what you were describing.  CV's seem very capable, and I was quite successful.  Specifically I noticed no change in the ability of RF's and DB's to hit anything.

If anything I feel CV's are a touch stronger following the skills rework.  The skills for reduced torp arming distance, negating torpedo protection, and reducing damage taken from flak are all buffs, and I even quite liked the bomber speed skill on my Indomitable.

Amazing, WG gave their beloved even more buffs. What a surprise.......

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13 hours ago, SpinyMuffins said:

This has basically negated almost all impact of the carrier on gameplay. I can still scout, but that's it. I can't really damage ships in any meaningful way. Was that the goal of the nerf?

Yes, that was the goal.

I’ve experienced the same thing. I can’t get the same damage as before because of the removal of Torpedo Acceleration. Hitting T10 and T9 ships with 30 or 35 knot torps is damn near impossible, unless they’re camping, and then they just turn on massive AA.

I’ve been reduced to mostly to 30k to 50k games now, although I had fun with Graf Zeppelin in ranked. 

Most nerfs to CVs are done secretly, but we notice them.

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1 hour ago, Nordlaender said:

Yes, that was the goal.

I’ve experienced the same thing. I can’t get the same damage as before because of the removal of Torpedo Acceleration. Hitting T10 and T9 ships with 30 or 35 knot torps is damn near impossible, unless they’re camping, and then they just turn on massive AA.

I’ve been reduced to mostly to 30k to 50k games now, although I had fun with Graf Zeppelin in ranked. 

Most nerfs to CVs are done secretly, but we notice them.

That's because the nerfs were PEBKAC.  Just maybe the CV defenders should take the advice so often touted on here to surface ships and just learn to play.

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15 hours ago, SpinyMuffins said:

Anyone else frustrated by the recent carrier nerfs?

I recently upgraded to the Lexington, and  was generally liking it. It didn't seem over-powered, but I was able to play some good games.

After the last update, now I'm basically not able to do anything. The accuracy of the rocket fighters is so broad I can hit crapnow. The dive bombers were nearly useless before, but somehow they got even worse. Torpedo bombers seem about the same.

The other big change is now AA fire at the T7-8 level is insane. Before, I'd lose a plane or two with each strafing run. Now, even if I'm only attacking a single destroyer or cruiser, I'll lose an entire wave of fighters to AA fire before I'm even able to attack. And that's with the aircraft armor captain skill.

This has basically negated almost all impact of the carrier on gameplay. I can still scout, but that's it. I can't really damage ships in any meaningful way. Was that the goal of the nerf?

There's no such nerf. I am not sure why you are having difficulty. Rocket reticules have not changed nor has anything about the DBs. The made it a bit easier for ships to spec into AA,  but almost no one does it and there are CV skills that mitigate that a bit if you take them.  If anything the skills and the Deadeye meta have benefited CVs a lot. You can buff torpedo damage and HE bomb and rocket damage easily now which massively increases damage against battleships. Even better, the Deadeye meta means concentrated AA is rarely a problem. BBs are nowhere near the cruisers or DDs most of the time so the effective enemy AA is actually reduced. I spend the first few minutes trying to keep the enemy DDs out of the cap then I spend most of the rest of the match bombing and torping the  Thunderers and Yamatos sniping in the back. My damage has gone up somewhat. 

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14 hours ago, Crucis said:

Excuse me?  I've been getting thrashed over the last couple of nights by  rocket planes, taking between 33% and 40/45% of my health.  Don't tell me that rocket planes can't hit crap.

As for upgrading from the Ranger to the Lexington, you're going to see  stronger AA.  That's just a fact of life for high tier CVs.

And what Capn skills are you using?

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If you are using Tiny Tims... don't

 

Just don't.

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17 hours ago, SpinyMuffins said:

Anyone else frustrated by the recent carrier nerfs?

There has been no such thing.

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