Why would you ever push? So Sad.

[NutzinBoltz]

I agree and I love to push. PQ has valid points. Watch a Yammy gone in 6 salvos from 22k from HE.

 

 

[Rouxi]

This video is proof that HE is too effective. WG reworked IFHE to balance "HE spam" when they should have reworked HE. Being able to pen at any angle while doing high damage and starting fires is too much.

[warheart1992]

19 minutes ago, Rouxi said:

This video is proof that HE is too effective. WG reworked IFHE to balance "HE spam" when they should have reworked HE. Being able to pen at any angle while doing high damage and starting fires is too much.

It's proof that Thunderer is stupid more like. Making a tier X Warspite and putting good AP AND disgusting HE is proof of this.

I wish I could go back in time and show this video to people when there was uproar over the planned Giulio Cesare changes. Maybe then ships like Thunderer would be possible to balance instead of pulling them from sale and creating a massive wave of rush to get them.

[Lose_dudes]

No, the video proves that some people are too idiotic to know NOT to push head on into a group of enemies.

[WarStore]

Interesting enough, there were people here complaining about "automated damage" from secondaries, but are perfectly fine with automated damage from permafires. 

Remove HE and see if the same people will complain about not having their automated damage.

[Spirit_of_76]

Video proves that I should play my thunderer more than I do.

[WarStore]

2 minutes ago, Lose_dudes said:

No, the video proves that some people are too idiotic to know NOT to push head on into a group of enemies.

Someone didn't watch the video. 

[Rouxi]

1 minute ago, warheart1992 said:

It's proof that Thunderer is stupid more like. Making a tier X Warspite and putting good AP AND disgusting HE is proof of this.

I wish I could go back in time and show this video to people when there was uproar over the planned Giulio Cesare changes. Maybe then ships like Thunderer would be possible to balance instead of pulling them from sale and creating a massive wave of rush to get them.

Nobody paid for thunderer, WG could nerf it if they had the balls.

 

[Lose_dudes]

Just now, WarStore said:

Someone didn't watch the video. 

I could always guess. It's always the guy does something stupid, then spends half of the video ranting about how WG is cash grabbing or something.

[Dr_Venture]

He's not wrong at all, in fact I've watched many of his live streams where he's shown hundreds of people what happens when you push. Hell even being mid range...it's like when people see a carrier its:

 

[WarStore]

Just now, Lose_dudes said:

I could always guess. It's always the guy does something stupid, then spends half of the video ranting about how WG is cash grabbing or something.

The Yamato in question died in 6 salvos while staying farther than 22km. He wasn't pushing. He was taking every single shell for over 11k damage per salvo plus 2 permafires.

Next time, it would be wise to know what you are talking about.

[warheart1992]

3 minutes ago, Rouxi said:

Nobody paid for thunderer, WG could nerf it if they had the balls.

 

While it's true that nobody paid for the ship, if WG went to nerf Thunderer the uproar would be huge. Besides these changes should have been done before the rework made the ship even sillier.  Now it will just join the pile of ships too broken to be available to everyone, like Smolensk. And while Smolensk was indirectly nerfed, I don't know how prudent it would be to do a class wide nerf to balance a single ship.

My guess is that WG staff is aware of the situation but they attribute it to a combination of rush to get the ship before it's pulled, and unexpected(?) benefit of the skill rework on the  ship. All that said, the fact that nothing has been said regarding skill changes next patch is a bad sign for sure.

[clammboy]

You know I just don't know about this it looks like another cherry picked game from another great player and streamer to help try and prove a point . Last night I played a bunch of games in my Musashi with Dead eye . I Have a 47% win rate below average to average player and I admit my aim is not good . I had much trouble as did almost every one else trying to actually hit anything from 23k away . I didn't do anything till I moved up a bit and to my surprise I wasn't insta deleted . He makes it look easy sitting at 23k away and hitting every shot it's not . It's also easier when you get out of tier 9 and10 games .

It seems to me that dead eye doesn't make your aim any better you just don't magically start hitting things . It's only advantage seems to be that if you do actually hit something at range it hurts a lot more because your shells are grouped so tight now . I still won my 3 games in the Musashi and we won because there teams just sat back and didn't cap and had trouble hitting our ships from range . I'm still on the fence on this one I don't like the passive play it causing . But I think a lot of people are being scared off by videos like this and post after post about how you cant push . I really don't know yet ????

 

[Helstrem]

This is the same thing I've been saying in every "OMG, my German secondaries were nerfed!!!!!" thread.

It really doesn't matter if German secondary builds were nerfed or buffed (slightly buffed in my opinion) as long as the game is in its current state.  It is suicide to push into secondary range because the game has simply become too lethal, and worse a lot of the lethality can be done from a "safe (RIP 22km Yamato) range.

HE is also too powerful.  Sure, Thunderer's HE is abnormally potent, but this is generally true across the board.  Go through your ships and honestly tag each one as HE primary or AP primary and see how it comes out.  It is probably the case that even BBs are, for the most part, better off firing HE.  In PQ's video there, barring the two citadel hit on Des Moines, he never broke 4k damage when firing AP, and the Thunderer has good 457mm AP.

[WaywardVariable]

I really enjoy Potato Quality video's and have learned a lot from them, this one however comes on the heels of two videos where he demonstrated how effective cruisers can be post patch 0.10.0 (Alaska and Petro) and in the Petro he specifically demonstrated aggressively pushing. 

That being said, he made the point , if you want to play OPTIMALLY you'd play a Thunderer and camp at the back of the map, shooting targets of opportunity from 20km+, which by all appearances is true. However IMHO (and PQ's apparently) that's freaking BORING, personally I wouldn't want to play a Thunderer since it's apparently the World of Warships equivalent of the (original) WoW HUNTARD (for those of you that don't remember the early days of World of Warcraft, the Hunter class was often demeaned due to the fact that it was an "easy mode" class oft played by clueless munchkins who had overdosed on LOTR and Legolas).

I actually had enough coal to buy the Thunderer and chose another ship because I wanted something that's FUN to play, not a ship that is so boring that it could make a highly effective sleep aid. 

That being said, for those of you that honestly enjoy playing the Thunderer and camping at the back,  I say, more power to you.

Happy Sailing! 

[Helstrem]

Just now, WaywardVariable said:

I really enjoy Potato Quality video's and have learned a lot from them, this one however comes on the heels of two videos where he demonstrated how effective cruisers can be post patch 0.10.0 (Alaska and Petro) and in the Petro he specifically demonstrated aggressively pushing. 

That being said, he made the point , if you want to play OPTIMALLY you'd play a Thunderer and camp at the back of the map, shooting targets of opportunity from 20km+, which by all appearances is true. However IMHO (and PQ's apparently) that's freaking BORING, personally I wouldn't want to play a Thunderer since it's apparently the World of Warships equivalent of the (original) WoW HUNTARD (for those of you that don't remember the early days of World of Warcraft, the Hunter class was often demeaned due to the fact that it was an "easy mode" class oft played by clueless munchkins who had overdosed on LOTR and Legolas).

I actually had enough coal to buy the Thunderer and chose another ship because I wanted something that's FUN to play, not a ship that is so boring that it could make a highly effective sleep aid. 

That being said, for those of you that honestly enjoy playing the Thunderer and camping at the back,  I say, more power to you.

Happy Sailing! 

"It is too a Hunter weapon!  I can equip it!"

[SkaerKrow]

34 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

I wish I could go back in time and show this video to people when there was uproar over the planned Giulio Cesare changes. Maybe then ships like Thunderer would be possible to balance instead of pulling them from sale and creating a massive wave of rush to get them.

Thunderer was never “sold,” and is a special ship, not a premium. Your false equivalency to push an anti-consumer agenda is, well, false. 

[AADusNuffin]

35 minutes ago, Lose_dudes said:

I could always guess. It's always the guy does something stupid, then spends half of the video ranting about how WG is cash grabbing or something.

PQ always does something stupid? PQ isn't a potato and he's one of the best players in the game. Maybe it's you that can't understand what he's doing since you're not experienced yet in the game?

[NutzinBoltz]

1

41 minutes ago, WarStore said:

Interesting enough, there were people here complaining about "automated damage" from secondaries, but are perfectly fine with automated damage from permafires. 

Remove HE and see if the same people will complain about not having their automated damage.

I don't think this is about buffing German secondaries. The point is I see people complaining about BB sitting in the back sniping for how long? You here a lot about pushing. Now it is the correct way to play is sit back and snipe. I prefer to get in position with BB to take damage for the team and getting those broadsides but not get focused fire on and give me time to heal. That play is about dead in tier 10 with all those HE spammers. Yes fun to use a secondary ship but I also enjoy other BB cruisers and now starting back up on DD.

[warheart1992]

9 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Thunderer was never “sold,” and is a special ship, not a premium. Your false equivalency to push an anti-consumer agenda is, well, false. 

Yeah, really killing WG's profits right here in my anti-consumer crusade. Normally I don't get accused for this stuff, but hey, first time for everything. 

It is indeed a special ship, but consider the following; Smolensk, Thunderer, Smaland, all tier X special ships were or are being removed instead of getting actually balanced. Smolensk in the first week of it's live server existence was insane. Thunderer promotes passiveness now. Smaland dominates almost every single DD with ease. It would indeed be well within WG's rights to balance these ships yet they don't. You can argue that Smolensk was hit hard, yet it wasn't specifically targeted, more a subclass of ships.

Whether you like it or not this has it's roots in the GC and how after our outcry  for all the wrong reasons, high tier, meta affecting ships like these will most likely never get directly balanced, being instead used as carrots to drive sales up before being pulled.  At least this is my subjective opinion and you are perfectly entitled to agree/disagree.

[Depraved_Miscreant]

1 hour ago, TwoLate51 said:

I agree and I love to push. PQ has valid points. Watch a Yammy gone in 6 salvos from 22k from HE.

 

 

The game seems to be permanently changed so it is all ranged. 
If a ship closes distance, it is instant death. 

This is no longer a fun game to play 

[WarStore]

33 minutes ago, TwoLate51 said:

1

I don't think this is about buffing German secondaries. The point is I see people complaining about BB sitting in the back sniping for how long? You here a lot about pushing. Now it is the correct way to play is sit back and snipe. I prefer to get in position with BB to take damage for the team and getting those broadsides but not get focused fire on and give me time to heal. That play is about dead in tier 10 with all those HE spammers. Yes fun to use a secondary ship but I also enjoy other BB cruisers and now starting back up on DD.

My point was about HE. Some people are perfectly fine with watching a Yamato burn to death in 6 salvos from 22km, with over 60k damage from fire, but god forbid if secondaries deal 20k from 10km. One automated damage is ok, but not the other. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of some people.

[WaywardVariable]

6 minutes ago, Salvo_Creative said:

The game seems to be permanently changed so it is all ranged. 
If a ship closes distance, it is instant death. 

This is no longer a fun game to play 

Must be a Tier X thing because playing at Tier VIII and below over the last 2 weekends (Cruisers mostly), I'm not seeing this. From my perspective you just have to be slightly more cautious and plan ahead than previously but that just adds to the  fun.  I really have yet to experience this "instant death as soon as you move up" phenomenon that everyone is talking about. 

I'm just fortunate I guess. 

[WarStore]

42 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Thunderer was never “sold,” and is a special ship, not a premium. Your false equivalency to push an anti-consumer agenda is, well, false. 

It behaves like a premium, looks like a premium, is sold for coal which happens to be plentiful in the rigged containers. I'd say it was sold. You could say a Massachusetts isn't a premium because you can buy it for doubloons, which you can also get for free in the game.

[CV_Jeebies]

If you have a question, ask it.  We don't need the forums to keep getting flooded with random posts tossing someone's yt video into it.  If I want yt vids, I'll go to yt.