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CRZY_TRAIN

How would you fix CV's?

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I have no good answers on fixing them but i always thought of one thing that does not seem right about them.  Why not take HP from the carrier ships HP when i shoot down a plane so that way the player gets damage and the carrier also takes damage to his ship not just a plane which he cares nothing about, prob all the damage done to planes should come off the CV's ship xp.  anyway im retiring from here for now i got a headache  lol     tc

Maybe some of you have good ideas

Edited by CRZY_TRAIN
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4 minutes ago, CRZY_TRAIN said:

.  Why not take HP from the carrier ships HP when i shoot down a plane

Because that would be insane.

Maybe making the planes worth VPs could have the effect of making them feel like valuable targets worth killing.

Just watching Drachinifel's video about the Guadalcanal Campaign, he's currently talking about the devastating loss to aircrews the IJN suffered throughout the course of 1942's battles - fascinating stuff.

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Go back to RTS CVs the way they were before the CV Rebork hit the fan.

 

CVs get their old alpha strike power.

Bring back Old Tier VII Saipan, Kaga.

Old VIII Graf Zeppelin, Enterprise, Saipan.

 

Put Odd Tier CVs back in the game:  Bogue, Zuiho, Hiryu, Essex, Taiho.

Ranger back to Tier VII because CVL Independence will return back into her original spot in Tier VI.

 

Finite Aircraft.

Old, old school AA system, which allowed us to do AA Monsters, to include 7.2km AA range for a lot of AA Cruisers, Destroyers, Battleships.  Old AA Monsters reaching out to 8.6km establishing AA Death Zones:  Seattle, Worcester, Neptune, Minotaur.  Old school Atlanta AA welcoming new mid tier CV players.  Old AA Gneisenau, USN BBs, Jean Bart and IX-X FR BBs.  VIII Kii's AA.  Back to AA DDs like Kidd, Gearing, Fletcher trolling CV players.

 

CV players had their cake, but we had Finite Aircraft and a valid, working AA system with years of balance put into it.

 

Far better than the circus that things are now.

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My answer: you can’t completely fix CVs. They are an inherently broken class due to their ability to create vision and apply force anywhere on the map, in a game where positioning and spotting are of supreme importance.

However, while RTS CVs were also broken, at least there was legitimate counter-play from the enemy carrier, AA actually did stuff, and the skill level required to be halfway decent was quite high. Current CV implementation is extra horrid from the gameplay perspective, a prime example of the fact that for the past few years WG has no clue what makes their game fun (or perhaps they no longer care about that consideration).

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I would prefer if planes no longer spotted but gave only map information on ship location. Also, might be interesting if they gave planes an operating range so that the CV would have to be more mobile rather than sitting in the back.

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15 minutes ago, CRZY_TRAIN said:

I have no good answers on fixing them but i always thought of one thing that does not seem right about them.  Why not take HP from the carrier ships HP when i shoot down a plane so that way the player gets damage and the carrier also takes damage to his ship not just a plane which he cares nothing about, prob all the damage done to planes should come off the CV's ship xp.  anyway im retiring from here for now i got a headache  lol     tc

Maybe some of you have good ideas

Would love transfer HP from the ship I shoot to mine that would be great.

I shoot yours and transfer it to mine.  O wait then it happened to you and its a problem.

Here is the fix to CV.  Play them first.

See everytime someone come on here saying "op this or that" including myself.  Its because I had a bad experience.

I have seen at least 3 post were some one says "I know CV is OP but I cannot make them work"

Take AA skills and move on.

 

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Since CVs have such broken spotting capabilities, ruining many stealth attack runs and stealth builds, have the spotting capabilities remain-but for ONLY the CV. Then the boats remain UN spotted by deadeye wielding BBs, only the CV gets penalized for spotting ships with his aircraft taking the pain, and it requires more boats to close the distance to spot for themselves, making brawlers viable again. It also makes the CVs somewhat more historically accurate as the commander has to relay target locations to his fleet.

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2 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Would love transfer HP from the ship I shoot to mine that would be great.

I shoot yours and transfer it to mine.  O wait then it happened to you and its a problem.

Here is the fix to CV.  Play them first.

See everytime someone come on here saying "op this or that" including myself.  Its because I had a bad experience.

I have seen at least 3 post were some one says "I know CV is OP but I cannot make them work"

Take AA skills and move on.

 

What are you talking about transfer?  when you hit a regular ship you take some of their HP off their hp pool, you also get points or damage tallied, so why are they not taking damage away from the CV's hp when i knock down 3 of its planes.  it should take some of it away and my damage tally should go up. the same as every other ship let the carrier lose HP for having his planes shot down.

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Just now, CRZY_TRAIN said:

What are you talking about transfer?  when you hit a regular ship you take some of their HP off their hp pool, you also get points or damage tallied, so why are they not taking damage away from the CV's hp when i knock down 3 of its planes.  it should take some of it away and my damage tally should go up. the same as every other ship let the carrier lose HP for having his planes shot down.

What your saying make as much scents as transferring HP from one ship to another.

Planes are the shells of the CV.  

Then again looking at threads like this is always madding.  You want clicks.  You put out an insane idea to get clicks.

Thats it.  So have a good day and I hope to drip some bombs on you someday:)

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Just shower thoughts, but I’d try three changes to CVs. First I’d increase the upfront damage of AA to give ships a better chance of gunning down entire squadrons. Secondly, I’d slightly reduce alpha damage per attacking flight, in order to reinforce the role of CVs as harassers and vultures. Finally, I’d remove plane loss as a mechanic. No more finite plane counts, you’d be able to queue up full squadrons through the whole match, probably with a 90 second cooldown per squad type, that was reduced by every plane in the squadron that made it back to the carrier safely.

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28 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

CV players had their cake, but we had Finite Aircraft and a valid, working AA system with years of balance put into it.

So much this

28 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Far better than the circus that things are now.

‘Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.’

Your downvoter got their wish for a CV rework, and in some ways it’s worse than before.

You could even argue that nothing has changed except the mechanics by which carriers annoy other players, and that there are now more players doing that annoying.’

I been saying since 0.8.0 that WG was so wedded to the rework, they never really gave any serious thought to things that could have be been done, within the established, functional mechanics of RTS, to make carriers less onerous, but they apparently didn’t care to try; at least not seriously.

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WG could have subs going 60 kph with deep water torpedoes that only hit CVs. Those sub commanders can tell the CV captains to learn to play the game better.


 

Edited by mrkimba
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49 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

CV players had their cake, but we had Finite Aircraft and a valid, working AA system with years of balance put into it

Take Tirpitz.

face a Graff.

get dev strike 2 minutes in.

sweet times.

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30 minutes ago, Karstodes said:

Take Tirpitz.

face a Graff.

get dev strike 2 minutes in.

sweet times.

 

Graf Zeppelin has been nerfed so much is useless now with the commander rework now secondary are useless so I don't know what you mean :Smile_popcorn:

Edited by LastRemnant

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Just now, LastRemnant said:

 

Graf Zeppelin is has been been so much is useless now with commander rework now secondary are useless so I don't what mean :Smile_popcorn:

Graff Secondaries are in fact stronger than before.

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2 minutes ago, Karstodes said:

Graff Secondaries are in fact stronger than before.

Doesn't matter how strong they are if they can't hit anything most of the time :Smile_sceptic: Also it's CV not a BB planes still suck either way :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by LastRemnant

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3 minutes ago, LastRemnant said:

Doesn't matter how strong they are if they can't hit anything most of the time :Smile_sceptic: Also it's CV not a BB planes still suck either way :Smile_teethhappy:

She have higher accuracy than any BB: at 9.5 km its roughly twice the hit rate than a fully spec Mass.

 

and sure it is not great, but still.

Edited by Karstodes

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Go back to RTS CVs the way they were before the CV Rebork hit the fan.

 

CVs get their old alpha strike power.

Bring back Old Tier VII Saipan, Kaga.

Old VIII Graf Zeppelin, Enterprise, Saipan.

 

Put Odd Tier CVs back in the game:  Bogue, Zuiho, Hiryu, Essex, Taiho.

Ranger back to Tier VII because CVL Independence will return back into her original spot in Tier VI.

 

Finite Aircraft.

Old, old school AA system, which allowed us to do AA Monsters, to include 7.2km AA range for a lot of AA Cruisers, Destroyers, Battleships.  Old AA Monsters reaching out to 8.6km establishing AA Death Zones:  Seattle, Worcester, Neptune, Minotaur.  Old school Atlanta AA welcoming new mid tier CV players.  Old AA Gneisenau, USN BBs, Jean Bart and IX-X FR BBs.  VIII Kii's AA.  Back to AA DDs like Kidd, Gearing, Fletcher trolling CV players.

 

CV players had their cake, but we had Finite Aircraft and a valid, working AA system with years of balance put into it.

 

Far better than the circus that things are now.

Do you really want to go back to the CV players deciding which team wins?

Planes are definitely finite. This system was put in so that one mistake wouldn't take the player out of the match.

1 hour ago, vak_ said:

My answer: you can’t completely fix CVs. They are an inherently broken class due to their ability to create vision and apply force anywhere on the map, in a game where positioning and spotting are of supreme importance.

However, while RTS CVs were also broken, at least there was legitimate counter-play from the enemy carrier, AA actually did stuff, and the skill level required to be halfway decent was quite high. Current CV implementation is extra horrid from the gameplay perspective, a prime example of the fact that for the past few years WG has no clue what makes their game fun (or perhaps they no longer care about that consideration).

The ability to create vision was far far worse in the RTS days when they really could keep a DD constantly lit up because they could circle outside of their AA. Now if a CV player wants to keep a DD more or less  permanently spotted they have to take the damage that the AA puts out which is nothing to sneeze at for tier 10's. AA would do a lot more if no planes could use the immunity period after dropping to pass through AA instead of just the dive bombers being cut off from that trick.

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1 hour ago, jags_domain said:

Planes are the shells of the CV.  

If planes are the shells then what are the rockets, bombs, and torps that the planes drop? I think this highlights the complete disconnect between what a CV player sees as risk and what a surface ship player sees as risk.

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1 hour ago, FullMetal_Inferno said:

I would prefer if planes no longer spotted but gave only map information on ship location. Also, might be interesting if they gave planes an operating range so that the CV would have to be more mobile rather than sitting in the back.

This is the best solution IMO. Aircraft sure as hell have an operating range in real life, and it makes sense for them to have it in-game as well.

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16 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

The ability to create vision was far far worse in the RTS days when they really could keep a DD constantly lit up because they could circle outside of their AA. Now if a CV player wants to keep a DD more or less  permanently spotted they have to take the damage that the AA puts out which is nothing to sneeze at for tier 10's. AA would do a lot more if no planes could use the immunity period after dropping to pass through AA instead of just the dive bombers being cut off from that trick.

I didn't say that vision in particular is what made RTS CVs better. But now that I think about it -- yeah, I'd much rather be in a situation where my team's CV has effective tools with which to defend me from the enemy airplanes, and where the enemy CV can get de-planed. Sure, sometimes the green RTS carrier lost the air battle completely, and your life became hell for that one match. But with reworked CVs there is almost no chance of effective air cover, so you'll be spotted a lot if you try to be aggressive in a DD; and you will almost always be spotted at the end of the match, to punish you for the heinous crime of playing a DD well.

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I wouldn't.... I'm not trained for that...

I'd just drop my CV off at the vet & let them fix it for me...

But then they wouldn't be able to make baby CVs anymore...& baby CVs are so CUTE...

Who's the cute wiiddle baby CV...yes you are...yes you are :-)

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1 hour ago, Hellroach said:

Since CVs have such broken spotting capabilities, ruining many stealth attack runs and stealth builds, have the spotting capabilities remain-but for ONLY the CV. Then the boats remain UN spotted by deadeye wielding BBs, only the CV gets penalized for spotting ships with his aircraft taking the pain, and it requires more boats to close the distance to spot for themselves, making brawlers viable again. It also makes the CVs somewhat more historically accurate as the commander has to relay target locations to his fleet.

You think that planes are blind and cannot see what they fly over?  Carriers should be powerful scouts.

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