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Patton5150

Recommended steel ship for co-op main?

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I spent steel on the Black before WG decided to pull it for later re-release to coal.  That move kind of 'irritated' me so I stopped paying attention to the amount of steel I was getting.  I just checked and I have enough steel for the Stalingrad if I use the discount coupon.  But then I also saw that FDR was available for steel.  I don't have enough for that yet but I can continue building the steel up slow and steady since I don't do Rank or Clan battles.  I have alot of tier 9/10 premium/special cruisers already.  But not a CV.  I have all the tech tree tier 10 CVs along with the tier 8 premium Kaga and Saipan.  My current thought is to keep accumulating steel in order to get the FDR.  Any co-op mains out there that have the Stalingrad or FDR that can offer their viewpoints of those ships?  Thank you.

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1 minute ago, Patton5150 said:

I spent steel on the Black before WG decided to pull it for later re-release to coal.  That move kind of 'irritated' me so I stopped paying attention to the amount of steel I was getting.  I just checked and I have enough steel for the Stalingrad if I use the discount coupon.  But then I also saw that FDR was available for steel.  I don't have enough for that yet but I can continue building the steel up slow and steady since I don't do Rank or Clan battles.  I have alot of tier 9/10 premium/special cruisers already.  But not a CV.  I have all the tech tree tier 10 CVs along with the tier 8 premium Kaga and Saipan.  My current thought is to keep accumulating steel in order to get the FDR.  Any co-op mains out there that have the Stalingrad or FDR that can offer their viewpoints of those ships?  Thank you.

How did you get enought steel playing coop?

I would go for fdr

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Bourgogne in co-op is DIRTY. the MBRB means easy bot deletion in rapid timeframe (which is what co-op is imo). You can secondary spec her without losing any significant value, which is a 10% reduction on reload with skills. Add speed boost on top of that and she just wins hands down

 

Name a better co-op ship than something that can go almost 40 knots, and has 12 380s firing every 20 seconds (10 with booster active) Hint: there isnt one

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1 minute ago, jags_domain said:

How did you get enought steel playing coop?

I would go for fdr

I got a small amount of steel from the few clan battles I did when there were members on the clan that needed players for the battles.  I didn't do it for the steel.  I just did it so that they could participate in the battles.  Those players have left a while back so havent done a clan battle in months.  Most of the steel came from the random Supercontainer or one of the various gift/anniversary containers that WG gives.  Also the daily missions give total of 40 steel per day which is 1200 per month which adds up.

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1 minute ago, Patton5150 said:

I got a small amount of steel from the few clan battles I did when there were members on the clan that needed players for the battles.  I didn't do it for the steel.  I just did it so that they could participate in the battles.  Those players have left a while back so havent done a clan battle in months.  Most of the steel came from the random Supercontainer or one of the various gift/anniversary containers that WG gives.  Also the daily missions give total of 40 steel per day which is 1200 per month which adds up.

Nice!  Gives me hope I can have my FDR some day!

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Even bots don't deserve to be tortured by Cv's .  Plymouth and bourgogne wouldn't be bad 

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Somers is great also...get an angle they have to charge through, smile as most hit 

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Been my experience that you don't get very good XP and credits with tier 10 CVs in co-op, even with permanent camo and economic flags. Not as good as you get with BBs and cruisers anyway. I'd suggest go for a ship that earns better. Unless of course you don't mind that and just wanna play the CV for fun, then save for the FDR, lol.

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Dang.  I thought I posted this in the PVE subforum.  Any way to move it there?

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FDR, Stalingrad is squishy. And bot CVs drop AP bombs that hurt now. My Stalingrad is still in ICU for a broken hip from a shokaku drop in co-op. (It won't stop crying, the big baby.)

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10 minutes ago, Patton5150 said:

Dang.  I thought I posted this in the PVE subforum.  Any way to move it there?

You can ask a forum moderator to move it.

From a COOP main (who nearly got FDR) who enjoys playing CV's in COOP.
I was initially very, very interested in FDR. However, after doing some research, I decided against it and went with BurgerQueen instead.
While FDR has great alpha potential and can shrug off AA, her regen rate and slower planes greatly handicap her in COOP.
Finally, while it is an admittedly small sample and likely players who just got FDR, the few I have seen in COOP have not done well at all.

If the other steel ships do not interest you, I would wait. Another ship, even a CV with better attributes for COOP, is likely to show up. Soon™.

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I get you may like coop but why would you waste steel in coop? Not sure it gives you much of edge in that style of play.

 

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I don’t have fdr and while I’m not a co-op main I do play some. If Stalingrad spawns on a flank it will crush. Just go out wider into the flank and wait for the broadsides, it’s a citadel bonanza and your massive AA eats planes in CO-op. CO-op cv always is a struggle with a few I have to do meaningful damage consistently. So if you want the xp and associated benefits for me it’s Stalingrad between those 2.

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I would not recommend a T10 cv like the FDR with very slow planes for coop! You will not have enough time to do any real damage in coop, I know I have one. In Randoms hell ya... she is a beast but not in the short coop games. I also have several other steel ships but as has been said previous I would easily recommend the Bourgogne as one of the very best farming ships in coop.... great speed... reload booster  good credit producer and just a great lot of fun to play.

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I was on the fence between FDR and Bourgogne, and threw down for the FDR.

My target usage is randoms, but I’ve only had it out in Co-op. My CV skills are more or less at the Langley level right now.

I got it to be the future centerpiece of a growing CV/Random Battle program. I’m determined to become part of the problem.

I chose it it over Bourgogne for right NOW, as all the “FDR is OP” talk had me worried that the FDR might be removed from the Armory long before Bourgogne is. I’m 40% of the way to Bourgogne, now.

If you’re drop-dead convinced that your steel ship will be confined to co-op use only, and performance in co-op is your goal, get a ship that lives off its guns. Do you need a ship to rack up citadels to satisfy mission tasks? Either of Bourgogne or Stalingrad can be citadel monsters. Look at your fleet and see where you need a citadel monster most: in a cruiser slot, or a BB slot.

If you need a ship primarily to provide variety in the gameplay experience, then FDR is probably your destination.

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FDR is rather lackluster in coop.  FDR has tanks planes that are slow and have a 25 sec timer between attacks.  It specializes in harassing lone bb's in the back of the map or stationary cruisers camping islands, it also needs time to get any real damage in.

The way bots all charge in together means typically the aa is stacked and the flak is abundant and fighter planes are frequently in the mix.  FDR's planes are tanks but thick flack and fighters are its nemesis. 

Unless you want it simply because you are a collector I would pass for coop.  MVR, Hak or Midway can all do as well or better.

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If you’re going for co-op only, I’d recommend not getting FDR for most of the aforementioned reasons - slow planes and slow plane regen. In a mode where the average battle time (from my recent experience) is in the 5-7 minute range, that combination probably won’t be anywhere near as effective as it is in randoms.
 

Of the current steel ships, any one of them could work, although I’d say Bourgogne would be the one to get first since the others all have similar tech tree equivalents. 

Bourgogne has a high top speed with the speed boost, and already fast reload for a battleship that cb be sped up with the reload booster. It’s definitely a ship that wants to get side shots, and that’s already easy in co-op (unless you’re a sub 23 knot battleship). And even easier with speed boost kicking you up to almost 40 knots. Your HE is also pretty strong for the targets that insist on not going broadside.

I don’t have a lot of experience with Somers in co-op, but I’d say about half of them tend to do well. For destroyers in co-op, torpedo ships tend to have an advantage, and Somers does have good torps, but there are still other destroyers that I’d personally rather bring, either going full gunboat or full torpboat. It’s not a bad ship, but it’s also not a great one either, and tends to not get recommended anymore unless you’re a collector or have lots of steel sitting around and all the other options already. 

Stalingrad is also pretty good in co-op, provided you know how to tank with it. If it gets onto a flank, it can chew through pretty much anything it comes across, but it has a huge citadel and co-op bots are great at citadel shots. If they catch you broadside, you will die, but if you can stay angled enough you’ll be fine. I haven’t tried mine in co-op since the rework, but the survivability skills never tended to be as useful there as they were in randoms or comp. 

Plymouth’s radar and smoke combo would work really well in co-op, since you can smoke and provide your own vision. Bots don’t smoke fire or torp, but since they do charge in you’d end up with a ship inside your smoke firing penalty pretty quickly depending on the map and spawn. If you want a sidegrade Mino, it looks like a good ship and would be decent in co-op, but at the same time Mino has the faster reload that also benefits in co-op. 

Shikishima has the overmatch potential for both 32 and 35mm, both of which you see quite a bit in your spread, and good accuracy and reload. When it released it had the meme secondary option that worked well in co-op, but the rework has nerfed that path somewhat. On its own, Shikishima would be a decent battleship for co-op, but if I had to pick one I’d rather go with Bourgogne. 

Since it’s still WIP, a lot of stuff could end up changing before release, but as it stands now, Austin could be a good pick for co-op as well. Yes the guns are small and the HE pen is very low for a t10 cruiser, but the fast reload, SAP, and reload booster could do some nasty things to the bots. Plus it would give you something completely different from any other tech tree ship, and even any of the other t10 super light cruisers. 

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3 hours ago, Patton5150 said:

I spent steel on the Black before WG decided to pull it for later re-release to coal.  That move kind of 'irritated' me so I stopped paying attention to the amount of steel I was getting.  I just checked and I have enough steel for the Stalingrad if I use the discount coupon.  But then I also saw that FDR was available for steel.  I don't have enough for that yet but I can continue building the steel up slow and steady since I don't do Rank or Clan battles.  I have alot of tier 9/10 premium/special cruisers already.  But not a CV.  I have all the tech tree tier 10 CVs along with the tier 8 premium Kaga and Saipan.  My current thought is to keep accumulating steel in order to get the FDR.  Any co-op mains out there that have the Stalingrad or FDR that can offer their viewpoints of those ships?  Thank you.

Super Cruisers are okay in Co-Op but don't be surprised if the bots pick on you because you got less HP than the BBs within your tiers.  I had funny games where my Montana was totally ignored for most of the game and some poor dude in a Stalingrad was forced to bow camp and slowly die from 4 bots focusing him until he was dead.

 

3 hours ago, jags_domain said:

How did you get enought steel playing coop?

I would go for fdr

You can accrue steel from Holiday Snowflakes as well as the rare stuff like Dockyard missions granting Steel as part of the rewards for early buyouts and grinding out the missions.  I have some Steel Ships myself despite having very little Ranked / Competitive play under my belt.  The last time I did Ranked, New Orleans was still a 9km Stealth Build Radar Cruiser in Tier VIII.  It takes a long time to acquire Steel without Competitive play, but it's possible.

 

I don't recommend going crazy for a CV with such a precious resource.  In Co-Op, CVs suck.  If your background in WoWS is primarily PVP, I know that will sound strange.  The reason why CVs suck in Co-Op is because it takes them a long time to rack up their damage and kills.  Co-Op often goes 3-5 minutes, 7 if you're lucky.  In such short games CV players struggle to get great performance because it's simply not enough time for them.  You can play a DD or BB and get a lot better numbers than if you had played a CV.

 

It gets super annoying as a CV in Co-Op when the bots are bunched together and their combined AA will slaughter your planes.  But you have to attack because the Co-Op game isn't going to go on much longer.

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Super Cruisers are okay in Co-Op but don't be surprised if the bots pick on you because you got less HP than the BBs within your tiers.  I had funny games where my Montana was totally ignored for most of the game and some poor dude in a Stalingrad was forced to bow camp and slowly die from 4 bots focusing him until he was dead.

 

You can accrue steel from Holiday Snowflakes as well as the rare stuff like Dockyard missions granting Steel as part of the rewards for early buyouts and grinding out the missions.  I have some Steel Ships myself despite having very little Ranked / Competitive play under my belt.  The last time I did Ranked, New Orleans was still a 9km Stealth Build Radar Cruiser in Tier VIII.  It takes a long time to acquire Steel without Competitive play, but it's possible.

 

I don't recommend going crazy for a CV with such a precious resource.  In Co-Op, CVs suck.  If your background in WoWS is primarily PVP, I know that will sound strange.  The reason why CVs suck in Co-Op is because it takes them a long time to rack up their damage and kills.  Co-Op often goes 3-5 minutes, 7 if you're lucky.  In such short games CV players struggle to get great performance because it's simply not enough time for them.  You can play a DD or BB and get a lot better numbers than if you had played a CV.

 

It gets super annoying as a CV in Co-Op when the bots are bunched together and their combined AA will slaughter your planes.  But you have to attack because the Co-Op game isn't going to go on much longer.

Its true CV suck in coop I am just a fan on them.

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CVs in co-op almost always score at the bottom of the post game results list, at least that is what I have seen since the rework. MidnightPhoenix is correct in pointing out the very limited window of opportunity to farm enough damage in the mode to make it profitable. Tier 10 can be very expensive to play in PvE. IMHO I want a fast ship with quick firing guns and I want torpedoes when fighting the bots. This is why I tend to stick with cruisers. 

8 hours ago, ole_seabee said:

I wouldnt wast steel any any ship can win in co op. 

A win isn't the point of co-op. Remember you are competing against the other humans on your team for points. Very rarely do the bots get the upper hand and the human team has to work together to ensure a win but it does not happen very often at all. If I do not score in the top 3 or 4 spots, it feels like a loss to me. 

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Eyeing Stalingrad for my first steel ship but I can see Bourgogne being a solid choice.

 

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12 hours ago, jags_domain said:

Its true CV suck in coop I am just a fan on them.

Then get the Graffzepplin, by far the best coop cv in the game.  Go with secondary build, set course to opposite side of map at start of game 3/4 speed and make your goal to kill enemy cv with secondaries.  Your team's goal is to keep you alive.  It is quite entertaining. 

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17 hours ago, jags_domain said:

How did you get enought steel playing coop?

I would go for fdr

Just some info for you as you asked OP about Steel and Co-op...

  • I am a Co-op main. 26K+ games there and just 170 something in Randoms. No games in Ranked or CB. So basically it's Co-op for me (don't even play Scenarios).
  • I have 2 Steel ships. The 1st was Flint (used Steel not Coal) and the 2nd is Bourgogne.
  • I am back up to 23,684 Steel as of this morning

How did I get so much only playing Co-op when Steel is not awarded for playing that mode?...

  • Flake events (I have a HUGE fleet - currently 388 ships). These are very profitable when Steel is the reward. Because the 1st Christmas flake event gave Steel in increasing amounts for a lot more ships than it does these days I was able to get Flint and have a bunch leftover (used Coupon too which helped). Even with fewer ships getting Steel now and with a reduced amount p/ ship I still get a pretty hefty chunk at Christmas from the flake event.
  • I grab it every chance I can from events, campaigns, dockyards, etc...  This is another big source of Steel for me. Example. I bought out the Hizen dockyard as it awarded 200 Steel and 400 RB pts for each duplicate building phase you completed by playing. The RB pts are ok but the Steel was what I really was after. So 22X200 = 4400 + 10% clan bonus (440) = 4840 (+ the 2000 it awarded at phase 25 as I recall).
  • Pretty much I get the full amount from the daily missions every day. With my Clan Bonus it amounts to 44 Steel each day. May not sound like a lot but that is 1320 every month if you gather the full amount each day.

So it is available to a Co-op player through a lot of playing daily and making sure you take advantage of every opportunity to acquire it when it is a reward in soemthing outside of PVP modes game play; be that playing or using some real $$$.

17 hours ago, Patton5150 said:

I spent steel on the Black before WG decided to pull it for later re-release to coal.  That move kind of 'irritated' me so I stopped paying attention to the amount of steel I was getting.  I just checked and I have enough steel for the Stalingrad if I use the discount coupon.  But then I also saw that FDR was available for steel.  I don't have enough for that yet but I can continue building the steel up slow and steady since I don't do Rank or Clan battles.  I have alot of tier 9/10 premium/special cruisers already.  But not a CV.  I have all the tech tree tier 10 CVs along with the tier 8 premium Kaga and Saipan.  My current thought is to keep accumulating steel in order to get the FDR.  Any co-op mains out there that have the Stalingrad or FDR that can offer their viewpoints of those ships?  Thank you.

I am looking at FDR myself (just 800 Steel away). No real interest in Stalingrad (just a more accurate Moskva on roids - have passed on getting it twice now and will continue to do so for Steel). Honestly, neither one is great for Co-op IMO and FWIW.

CV's are very hard to do well in while playing Co-op. The games are short as a rule so you don't have the time you do in PVP. CV's since the rework are DOT ships not high alpha strike ships. Co-op heavily favors alpha strike over DOT. FDR has a decent alpha strike based on what that is for CV's these days but it is still a DOT ship like the rest of the CV's. It has slow planes and that crazy 25 sec reload between attacks thing. So you will be flying around with planes that have a BB reload but no where near BB levels of alpha strike (more Cruiser level alpha). Bots also tend to group up and stay close early match so the AA can be brutal. I have seen a few people play FDR in Co-op and they learn that fact real fast as even its durable and multiple plane squads take a beating from the bot AA (which btw seems to get the same increased RNG as the main guns do with it's flak - you can dodge all you want but the bot flak will hammer you). Where FDR will do well in Co-op is where they all do; find a singled out BB at the back that didn't group with the rest and mid to late game in a match that extends out some where the bots are spread out a bit.

Despite all that said ^^^ about how FDR is not great for Co-op I STILL WANT IT!!!! And as soon as I gather 816 more Steel I will have it!!!! :fish_haloween:

I see a LOT of Stalingrad's in Co-op and honestly they are wrecked just as easy as Moskva is. Don't get me wrong, the guns are clearly amazing, but the bots don't let you sit and bow tank from a distance all game because they are too afraid to push you. They are hard chargers as I am sure you know and they will get close and when they have a good shot at the side they don't miss. I have seen people do really well in the ship in Co-op and I have seen them get popped like a zit in like 2 mins as well. It is just a roided up Moskva with better accuracy in Co-op (please note the specific distinction I made there.) It isn't a good brawler/close fighting ship in Co-op like Puerto Rico is (just an example of a similar type of ship) because the citadel is so vulnerable and it handles and maneuvers like a GK. So again I personally do not find it to be the beast for Co-op it can be in PVP modes (from what I have seen on streams of PVP games with it and what I have seen people do with it personally in Co-op). But if you like the kind of playstyle it brings (like Moskva) and can do well in that in Co-op then it would be a good choice for you.

Bourgogne, Shikishima, Plymouth, and Somers would be better than FDR for Co-op IMO. 

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15 hours ago, ole_seabee said:

I wouldnt wast steel any any ship can win in co op. 

Then it isn't a waste if any ship can win. If getting the ship for a win is out of the equation other factors can decide it right?

It is never a waste to use your Steel on a ship you want.

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