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Bacl

Secondaries are more of a joke now than before.

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Since the rework i will admit i did like how they moved the skills linked to secondaries and how they changed the costs. Demolition expert to IFHE, how you get better primary reload when in secondary range or simply having both side shooting at once, these are positive things.

 

The secondary accuracy nerf overall was a blow (USN specially), yes the range has been buffed but who cares if your are not hitting anything. To go full secondary now you have to give in quite a bit on survivability and of course sacrifice on long range attributes. With the Deadeye meta and how now cruisers simply stay as far as possible and snipe you from their maximum range due to the max DPM build, the only thing that will be coming close enough of you for secondaries to work are careless Destroyers or other secondary built BB.  The reduced accuracy from secondaries cant hit a DD unless they are about 7 km from you and even then they do miss a lot if the DD in question is competent enough to use both "A" and "D" keys.

 

Right now it look great on paper but in practice the only thing that can be reliably hit by a secondary built BB are others BB, those who are behind the 20KM mark because of the Deadeye skill or the double rudder built cruisers that are not only nimble but also still too far away for secondaries to even notice.

 

So now the question is: What is the point of building secondaries? What we had before was far from optimal but still it was far better than what we have now.  Buff accuracy on secondaries and then we could justify  going for them but right now its all for show and not practicality.

 

You know s*it hit the fan when you have Deadeye G.K.  and Kremlins staying behind the 18km mark....

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7 minutes ago, Bacl said:

So now the question is: What is the point of building secondaries? What we had before was far from optimal but still it was far better than what we have now.  Buff accuracy on secondaries and then we could justify  going for them but right now its all for show and not practicality.

No doubt they'll nerf deadeye and rebuff secondaries at some point, forcing people to fork over currency to make the change.

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They messed them up ....If you spec 2ndrys ...That do way less DAM and miss more by 30% ,,,You can't spec Tank or AA ,,,Now if a BB can't tank HOW IF HE GOING TO LIVE TO PUSH ???? He can't you should have put some tanking or AA skill in the 2ndry skills ..As of now they are a trap

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2 minutes ago, War182 said:

They messed them up ....If you spec 2ndrys ...That do way less DAM and miss more by 30% ,,,You can't spec Tank or AA ,,,Now if a BB can't tank HOW IF HE GOING TO LIVE TO PUSH ???? He can't you should have put some tanking or AA skill in the 2ndry skills ..As of now they are a trap

BBs can still tank, the skill rework didn’t change that. 

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3 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

BBs can still tank, the skill rework didn’t change that. 

BBs dont have the ability to get what was superintendent now cause the cost of the secondary build is so pricy.

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2 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

BBs can still tank, the skill rework didn’t change that. 

Well not focusing commander skills into fire prevention, more heals, reduced fires and flooding times etc is marking a great difference in survivability.

 

Yes BB can tank but a BB with specific build can tank much more.

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1 minute ago, megahugenoob said:

BBs dont have the ability to get what was superintendent now cause the cost of the secondary build is so pricy. 

Not really. You can drop the -10% reload easily to spec fire prevention and the new suprerintendant, just like you could drop BFT for superintendant.

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5 minutes ago, megahugenoob said:

BBs dont have the ability to get what was superintendent now cause the cost of the secondary build is so pricy.

BB can definitely can take superintendents replacement while building a viable secondary build.

 

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4 minutes ago, Karstodes said:

Not really. You can drop the -10% reload easily to spec fire prevention and the new suprerintendant, just like you could drop BFT for superintendant.

Well that is detrimental to a BB secondari build dont you think?

 

A sniping battleship can be a better sniper with Deadeye and concealment but in order to survive longer i will drop one of them to take superintendant....

 

The moment you mix and match you lose on what the build is focusing on.

 

I could take Deadeye, secondary perks, superintendant and fail miserably at all 3 because those skills do not synergize at all.

 

Commander skills are specialization, if you only have one specialization viable well what is the point of using the others?

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2 minutes ago, b101uk said:

BB can definitely can take superintendents replacement while building a viable secondary build.

 

World of Warships cm.jpg

Yes but its not optimal, on a German BB with 105mm you would take both demolition and IFHE for maximum dakka power.

Your build is viable but you do give up the -10% secondary reload and main batteries adrenaline rush too.

 

IF secondaries were accurate in the first place well you would be sacrificing survivability for maximum firepower but its not the case, hell is was better before the rework because they could hit thing....

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9 minutes ago, Bacl said:

The moment you mix and match you lose on what the build is focusing on.

This is kind of the point of the skill rework, i.e. creating variety in builds and removing cookie cutter builds.

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6 minutes ago, Bacl said:

Yes but its not optimal, on a German BB with 105mm you would take both demolition and IFHE for maximum dakka power.

Your build is viable but you do give up the -10% secondary reload and main batteries adrenaline rush too.

 

IF secondaries were accurate in the first place well you would be sacrificing survivability for maximum firepower but its not the case, hell is was better before the rework because they could hit thing....

you nailed it! The idea that we have to spend 4 points to make our SECONDARY weapons accurate is absolutely insane.

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2 minutes ago, Crucis said:

This is kind of the point of the skill rework, i.e. creating variety in builds and removing cookie cutter builds.

Did they do it?

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7 minutes ago, Crucis said:

This is kind of the point of the skill rework, i.e. creating variety in builds and removing cookie cutter builds.

So what sacrifices have deadeye BB's had to make in the interest of build diversity?

 

I will save ya the trouble... none.

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21 minutes ago, Bacl said:

Well that is detrimental to a BB secondari build dont you think?

 

A sniping battleship can be a better sniper with Deadeye and concealment but in order to survive longer i will drop one of them to take superintendant....

 

The moment you mix and match you lose on what the build is focusing on.

 

I could take Deadeye, secondary perks, superintendant and fail miserably at all 3 because those skills do not synergize at all.

 

Commander skills are specialization, if you only have one specialization viable well what is the point of using the others?

Before it was worst.

You needed two 4 points to make them works (AFT and Manual control). Add to it Fire Prevention because fire is hot, and you got 12 pts in 4 pointers. It leave you 1 3 pointers, so either BFT or Superintendant. And you just couldn't spec IFHE by any mean.

Now you can spec far more in you secondaries (IFHE and the new Demo Expert) while keeping the core of secondaries and some option of survivabilty.

Edited by Karstodes

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1 minute ago, Bacl said:

Yes but its not optimal, on a German BB with 105mm you would take both demolition and IFHE for maximum dakka power.

Your build is viable but you do give up the -10% secondary reload and main batteries adrenaline rush too.

 

IF secondaries were accurate in the first place well you would be sacrificing survivability for maximum firepower but its not the case, hell is was better before the rework because they could hit thing....

I have NEVER taken adrenaline rush on any secondary build ever, as I don't play to lose HP per se, and running around with lower HP to make it meaningful puts you at greater risk of being deleted.

 

on the other hand IFHE in the case of many secondary guns is unnecessary, as it 1 offers no advantage in crossing any key armour thresholds and 2 reduces fire chance.

 

while -10% reload on something that is generally in the 3sec to 6sec range is the difference between 3sec and 2.7sec or 6sec and 5.4sec which is hardly worth it, and even if you factor in 150mm+ secondary guns with reloads in the order of 12sec it only goes down to 10.8sec which is still not worth it.

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Just now, b101uk said:

on the other hand IFHE in the case of many secondary guns is unnecessary, as it 1 offers no advantage in crossing any key armour thresholds and 2 reduces fire chance

German BB in general can use it: a lot of them have a lot of 105mm and, with IFHE, it climb to 32mm of penetration.

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German secondaries did ok with the rework, more of a side grade at best if you ignore the fact that the bonus to your AA is now gone because it is now in separate skills.

USN premium secondary ships (Massachusetts,  Georgia and Ohio) got a straight up nerf.  They lost 25% of the previous 60% accuracy buff in mfsc for the ability for your secondaries to fire off both sides.  Well that does nothing because they don't hit anything anymore.   USN secondaries were good because of the accuracy.  Their small caliber and low pen wan made up for with laser accuracy which made them ideal against DD's and cruisers.   Now they can't reliably hit either.

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13 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Maybe sec were to powerful so they got changed?

Secondaries were always a Meme more than anything, this change was supposed to buff them and make them viable.

They kinda missed the target like the new secondaries targeting a DD

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2 minutes ago, Karstodes said:

German BB in general can use it: a lot of them have a lot of 105mm and, with IFHE, it climb to 32mm of penetration.

But German ships are NOT the sole secondary ships are they, you have the French BB, you have the 3 specific USN BB, and you now have a swath of other ships from other nations with some viability in their secondary battery's far greater than before the rework.

 

this thread was NOT titled German secondary specific, while 105mm themselves are a general exception and NOT indicative of many other ships.

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But fear not, I am sure rather than fix the skills or the ships they broke with this rework,  I am sure they will have plenty of new shiny premium ships to sell that are better suited to the new skills.

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2 minutes ago, Bacl said:

Secondaries were always a Meme more than anything, this change was supposed to buff them and make them viable.

They kinda missed the target like the new secondaries targeting a DD

Mayne they can adjust that part.  Sec still work on cruiser.

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14 minutes ago, Karstodes said:

Before it was worst.

You needed two 4 points to make them works (AFT and Manual control). Add to it Fire Prevention because fire is hot, and you got 12 pts in 4 pointers. It leave you 1 3 pointers, so either BFT or Superintendant. And you just couldn't spec IFHE by any mean.

Now you can spec far more in you secondaries (IFHE and the new Demo Expert) while keeping the core of secondaries and some option of survivabilty.

 

5 minutes ago, HallaSnackbar said:

German secondaries did ok with the rework, more of a side grade at best if you ignore the fact that the bonus to your AA is now gone because it is now in separate skills.

USN premium secondary ships (Massachusetts,  Georgia and Ohio) got a straight up nerf.  They lost 25% of the previous 60% accuracy buff in mfsc fir the ability for your secondaries to fire off both sides.  Well that does nothing because they don't hit anything anymore.   USN secondaries were good because of the accuracy.  Their small caliber and low pen wan made up for with laser accuracy which made them ideal against DD's and cruisers.   Now they can't reliably hit either.

 

It was better before because you could get all the secondary related skills + IFHE if you sacrificed a bit on survivability like fire prevention but at the time in doing so you were doing more danage because they were actually hitting stuff.

Now we can have half baked builds that will accomplish nothing because the secondaries are barely hitting anything at this point, it not because you dropped the -10% reload speed (even tho throwing more stuff at the wall will improve chances of sticking) and take superintendant that suddenly the build is better.

 

Like HallaSnackbar said above (man you like to play with fire with a name like that lol) the USN secondaries got hit the hardest, accuracy was their thing but now its only for show.

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5 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Mayne they can adjust that part.  Sec still work on cruiser.

Hang on, are you implying that secondaries on cruisers are actually hitting stuff?

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