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Lert

'Hardening', skill suggestion to replace 'Deadeye'

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To replace deadeye, which makes you a bit more accurate when there's nothing spotted within your normal concealment radius, how about the skill 'Hardening' which increases your shell krupp by 10% instead?

Shell krupp is a value that represents shell hardness; the higher the value the harder the shell and the less likely it is to shatter. IE, the more penetration it has over range. Anyone who's driven Prince Eitel Friedrich (or any of a number of other battleships) understand the difference a high vs a low krupp value makes. I'd welcome a captain skill that gives me more pen on select battleships.

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How about from certain gun calibers and up?  Point being some of the super cruisers / pocket BBs having "last year's model" of BB guns (figuratively) would have similar effects.  Perhaps a lesser but still significant + up?

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1 minute ago, lightspeed2131 said:

How about from certain gun calibers and up?  Point being some of the super cruisers / pocket BBs having "last year's model" of BB guns (figuratively) would have similar effects.  Perhaps a lesser but still significant + up?

This is specifically for BBs only. Smaller caliber BBs would be the most helped by this.

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20 minutes ago, Lert said:

To replace deadeye, which makes you a bit more accurate when there's nothing spotted within your normal concealment radius, how about the skill 'Hardening' which increases your shell krupp by 10% instead?

Shell krupp is a value that represents shell hardness; the higher the value the harder the shell and the less likely it is to shatter. IE, the more penetration it has over range. Anyone who's driven Prince Eitel Friedrich (or any of a number of other battleships) understand the difference a high vs a low krupp value makes. I'd welcome a captain skill that gives me more pen on select battleships.

I would take a serving of "Softening", making Roma not overpenetrate  cruisers every single time within 16km :cap_old:.

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19 minutes ago, Lert said:

This is specifically for BBs only. Smaller caliber BBs would be the most helped by this.

I get that.  Proposed is along side the mod of the BB skill and in similar but not identical fashion something for big gun cruisers might become available.  Example :  Assumed for sake of discussion the BB skill offers +10% to krupp.  Alter the cruiser 3 pt Heavy AP to also feature a +5% krupp with the +5% damage.  Not an earthshaking change to combine in that the pen and the actual damage numbers will affect the game but should not (things like dispersion and angling come into effect as well) be drastic game changers.

Thoughts? 

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1 hour ago, lightspeed2131 said:

How about from certain gun calibers and up?  Point being some of the super cruisers / pocket BBs having "last year's model" of BB guns (figuratively) would have similar effects.  Perhaps a lesser but still significant + up?

ARGHHHHHH!!!

There's no such thing as a "pocket battleship"!!!  The term is nothing more than propaganda from British newspapers from the 1930's and was NEVER proper naval terminology!!!

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45 minutes ago, lightspeed2131 said:

I get that.  Proposed is along side the mod of the BB skill and in similar but not identical fashion something for big gun cruisers might become available.  Example :  Assumed for sake of discussion the BB skill offers +10% to krupp.  Alter the cruiser 3 pt Heavy AP to also feature a +5% krupp with the +5% damage.  Not an earthshaking change to combine in that the pen and the actual damage numbers will affect the game but should not (things like dispersion and angling come into effect as well) be drastic game changers.

Thoughts? 

The problem is that there are only so many cruiser skill slots.  One (Heavy HE/SAP shells) is already taken up be DD gunned cruisers.  Another (Heavy AP shells) is taken up be heavy cruisers, 190mm or larger guns, which could also be applied (obviously) to super cruisers.

My problem is that there don't seem to be very many good generic cruiser skills, but there are some stinkers.  Outnumbered is, IMO, pretty much useless.  And Top Grade Gunner's benefit is far too weak to be a good skill that's worth 4 points.  Also, I'm not very thrilled by the three torpedo related skills, largely because I don't see torps as a primary weapon for cruisers and thus are largely just a waste of skill slots.  

Getting back to the Heavy HE/SAP skill, that's a painful skill to take if it's not armed with DD sized guns, as a 15% hit to one's concealment really hurts many cruisers.

Edited by Crucis

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

The problem is that there are only so many cruiser skill slots.  One (Heavy HE/SAP shells) is already taken up be DD gunned cruisers.  Another (Heavy AP shells) is taken up be heavy cruisers, 190mm or larger guns, which could also be applied (obviously) to super cruisers.

My problem is that there don't seem to be very many good generic cruiser skills, but there are some stinkers.  Outnumbered is, IMO, pretty much useless.  And Top Grade Gunner's benefit is far too weak to be a good skill that's worth 4 points.  Also, I'm not very thrilled by the three torpedo related skills, largely because I don't see torps as a primary weapon for cruisers and thus are largely just a waste of skill slots.  

Getting back to the Heavy HE/SAP skill, that's a painful skill to take if it's not armed with DD sized guns, as a 15% hit to one's concealment really hurts many cruisers.

Think everyone gets that and at least in general agrees.  Maybe (probably - always outliers) wrong but in general think we're safe saying that.

Noted is this game isn't like reality anyway so use of propaganda tools is to a certain extent fitting.  Call them BB-lite, pocket "pool" or whatever floats it's the same thing.  Some lines of this have nearly half (some might argue better than half) of the line as paper only (how "pocket" is that?).  Point is use an existing skill and mod it to reflect what Lert's conceptually proposing just modified so it "fits" the cruiser community (sort of, kind of, maybe).

If the current 3 pt skills gets modified and suddenly becomes a 4 point skill, so what?  Hungry kids all over the world beat that as does me offering to buy you a beer and a refill when able.

In concept I do find I agree with Lert's proposal but would extend, in a modified fashion (I'm not king, never will be but this would get done if I were) to cruisers.  

It's kind of like a 6th rate 22 vs a 5th rate 38 to go for nautical but of a different era.  Is the 38 fitted with 12's or with 18's?  Could be either and we won't know until....  And back to this game, does the 8" have "slightly" improved pen / damage due to "skill o' the skipper" or not?  Back to different era for a sec, is the 64 cut down (razeed) to a 44 really a 3rd rate (pocket BB 1st rates were the cat's meow then) due to armor (timber thickness) protection or a super slow and sluggish 4th (or in some measures) 5th rate frigate (cruiser)?

Pricing, not a penny more than 3 points in my mind as described with Lert above.  5% gain even if in two aspects isn't at all worth more than 3 and I'm hacking up hairballs even at 3 pts.  

Skill re-arrangement and re-pricing is sure to be funneling its way here.  

Just MHO.

Thoughts?

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30 minutes ago, lightspeed2131 said:

Think everyone gets that and at least in general agrees.  Maybe (probably - always outliers) wrong but in general think we're safe saying that.

Noted is this game isn't like reality anyway so use of propaganda tools is to a certain extent fitting.  Call them BB-lite, pocket "pool" or whatever floats it's the same thing.  Some lines of this have nearly half (some might argue better than half) of the line as paper only (how "pocket" is that?).  Point is use an existing skill and mod it to reflect what Lert's conceptually proposing just modified so it "fits" the cruiser community (sort of, kind of, maybe).

If the current 3 pt skills gets modified and suddenly becomes a 4 point skill, so what?  Hungry kids all over the world beat that as does me offering to buy you a beer and a refill when able.

In concept I do find I agree with Lert's proposal but would extend, in a modified fashion (I'm not king, never will be but this would get done if I were) to cruisers.  

It's kind of like a 6th rate 22 vs a 5th rate 38 to go for nautical but of a different era.  Is the 38 fitted with 12's or with 18's?  Could be either and we won't know until....  And back to this game, does the 8" have "slightly" improved pen / damage due to "skill o' the skipper" or not?  Back to different era for a sec, is the 64 cut down (razeed) to a 44 really a 3rd rate (pocket BB 1st rates were the cat's meow then) due to armor (timber thickness) protection or a super slow and sluggish 4th (or in some measures) 5th rate frigate (cruiser)?

Pricing, not a penny more than 3 points in my mind as described with Lert above.  5% gain even if in two aspects isn't at all worth more than 3 and I'm hacking up hairballs even at 3 pts.  

Skill re-arrangement and re-pricing is sure to be funneling its way here.  

Just MHO.

Thoughts?

1. People using a propaganda term rather than proper naval nomenclature to describe naval ships greatly offends me.

2. All the rest looks like text vomit that makes not a lick of sense.

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4 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

I would take a serving of "Softening", making Roma not overpenetrate  cruisers every single time within 16km :cap_old:.

If only Roma had SAP.

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Borgogne would be such an incredible ship with this 

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17 hours ago, Crucis said:

ARGHHHHHH!!!

There's no such thing as a "pocket battleship"!!!  The term is nothing more than propaganda from British newspapers from the 1930's and was NEVER proper naval terminology!!!

Thanks random citizen for once again for emphatically reminding us the Pocket Battleships of the Deutschland class is obviously not proper terminology. But besides all that, I can't wait to see another Pocket Battleship in the game sometime.

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