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HammerKing1982

Normandie, what a joke !

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I just spent last 3 days marathoning just to get to Lyon, and spend about 5usd for doubloons. 

To my utter disgust, this Normandie is a joke. U can maybe win in COOP but when u play Random, this ship is a complete failure IF your team mates are 50% noobs.

To begin with, the propeller acceleration and time top speed is awful. The rudder speed is sluggish and the steer, the damp steer is HORRIBLE ! 

So by all means when enemy ships encounters you, cant escape, cant defend with hopeless secondaries, AA defence is almost a BIG JOKE. 

If you on your way unlocking Lyon, Richelliue and further on, SKIP this junk Normandie. Its a total waste of time unless u plan to play in COOP !

I sworn I'd never been mad with a useless BB like Normandie ever......

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9 hours ago, HammerKing1982 said:

I just spent last 3 days marathoning just to get to Lyon, and spend about 5usd for doubloons. 

To my utter disgust, this Normandie is a joke. U can maybe win in COOP but when u play Random, this ship is a complete failure IF your team mates are 50% noobs.

To begin with, the propeller acceleration and time top speed is awful. The rudder speed is sluggish and the steer, the damp steer is HORRIBLE ! 

So by all means when enemy ships encounters you, cant escape, cant defend with hopeless secondaries, AA defence is almost a BIG JOKE. 

If you on your way unlocking Lyon, Richelliue and further on, SKIP this junk Normandie. Its a total waste of time unless u plan to play in COOP !

I sworn I'd never been mad with a useless BB like Normandie ever......

What did expect its a cruise liner masquerading as a BB 

Edited by tm63au

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...but why post this in the Italian battleships sub-forum? :Smile_amazed:

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Tfw the Lyon is a worse t7 than Normandie is t6... I remember speccing my Normandie into maneuverability and the rudder was excellent

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Love my Normandie!  Good WR in her.  She is a beast at her tier.

Enjoy the Lyon as well.

Both are capable ships in my hands.

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48 minutes ago, Sabene said:

Love my Normandie!  Good WR in her.  She is a beast at her tier.

Enjoy the Lyon as well.

Both are capable ships in my hands.

So much this. I learned more about brawling (before the rework which shall not be named MkII,) in Normandie than I ever did with Bayern or Bismarck and Tirpitz. (Which I was finally able to actually brawl with AFTER playing Normandie.)

4 hours ago, tm63au said:

What did expect its cruise liner masquerading as a BB 

I love it in part specifically because of the Ocean Liner camo. That’s the only camo I play it in.

”Don’t mind me; I’m just a passing-by ocean liner.”

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my bad, posted in italian BB, can moderator move it to General Ships Discussions ? Thanks 

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1 hour ago, Sabene said:

Love my Normandie!  Good WR in her.  She is a beast at her tier.

Enjoy the Lyon as well.

Both are capable ships in my hands.

I love it's guns, but thats all. The whole ship is a joke. U cant escape enemies in dire situation. I will call this ship the IMBA JUNK !

I believe it will be good in COOP only. Random game, forget about it ! 

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Lets hope the Lyon will be better, at least 16 barrels, bigger secondary guns and more AA damage. Normandie is a NO NO

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I hated Normandie.

The protection is poor - low HP, not amazing armor.

The firepower is pretty poor - awkward turret arrangement, relatively poor accuracy, poor AP penetration for tier, no overmatch.

The speed is good - but speed encourages flanking and dynamism which are excessively punished by aircraft, and Normandie's AA is a joke even by AA joke standards.

This combines with pretty unpleasant matchmaking, with a huge gulf between T6 and T8. A Cleveland not running IFHE can now HE pen you, while retaining a 12% fire chance. Massachusetts is fast enough to simply murder you.

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5 hours ago, HammerKing1982 said:

I just spent last 3 days marathoning just to get to Lyon, and spend about 5usd for doubloons. 

To my utter disgust, this Normandie is a joke. U can maybe win in COOP but when u play Random, this ship is a complete failure IF your team mates are 50% noobs.

To begin with, the propeller acceleration and time top speed is awful. The rudder speed is sluggish and the steer, the damp steer is HORRIBLE ! 

So by all means when enemy ships encounters you, cant escape, cant defend with hopeless secondaries, AA defence is almost a BIG JOKE. 

If you on your way unlocking Lyon, Richelliue and further on, SKIP this junk Normandie. Its a total waste of time unless u plan to play in COOP !

I sworn I'd never been mad with a useless BB like Normandie ever......

Normandie is THE penultimate Raptor Rescue bote. Use your front and center turrets to bring the pain. Don't unmask your rear turret. Play to her strengths and she is a fine ship.

image.png.a35768ead3af0740910699d4be3f5a3e.png

image.png.4edbe50a35de0eb6edec3efc35b8293f.png

 

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On 2/2/2021 at 9:26 AM, HammerKing1982 said:

U cant escape enemies in dire situation.

Whaaaaaaat? Normandie goes (near as makes no practical difference) 30 knots! That's hella fast for a tier 6 battleship and outruns even most tier 7s. Normandie has lost a bit of luster since the USSR battleships went in, but it's still a solid tier 6 BB just because of the speed, and it has pretty trollzy armor besides. Not great armor, but trollzy armor that will occasionally shrug off hits that should otherwise have punished you quite hard. I liked Normandie well enough; the guns are probably the worst thing about it, because they're inconsistent and lack overmatch capability, but the excellent mobility allows you to pick your fights, which largely makes up for it.
 

On 2/2/2021 at 9:29 AM, HammerKing1982 said:

Lets hope the Lyon will be better, at least 16 barrels

Lyon is Normandie writ large. I mean that quite literally; it's a bigger, fatter Normandie with an extra turret, but it gives up a LOT for the additional firepower. The gun handling and speed are noticeably worse, both in terms of actual performance and relative to the tier. 16 barrels are heaps of fun... when they can actually hit, which often they won't. Lyon has some of the least-consistent guns of any battleship in the game, and most of the time it subscribes to the 'volume of fire' theory of marksmanship, also known as 'spray and pray,' also also known as 'throw enough $#!+ downrange and some of it is bound to hit the target.' I didn't care for it, because inconsistent gunnery infuriates me; not being rewarded despite proper aiming and positioning feels pretty bad, and while all battleships suffer from this to varying degrees, Lyon suffers more than most. Then again, sometimes those shells connect en masse, and when they do.... hoo boy, it's absolutely hilarious.


--Helms

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I got lyon now, to sum it up, Lyon has better AA, secondaries and ofcoz 16 guns ! 

both ship are sluggish to me, rudder control is STILL a nightmare. if entering tight corridors, thats a high risk. 

im comparing it to tirpitz, mainz, and other nation ships, if the ship is NOT manoeuvrable, at least it can defend itself and escape, which i can say both of this French ships are NOT.

normandie does 30knots and lyon does 27knots, most of the time evading shells, time to top speed are still significantly HOPELESS compared to other BB. so speed of both ships doesnt really matter in a heavy flanking situation, hardly escapable 

but living with Lyon accepting it's fate to trade for tremendous fire power its a keeper, normandie is NOT, it just waiting to die in random games. maybe kill a few in co-op

Edited by HammerKing1982
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On 2/5/2021 at 11:14 AM, HammerKing1982 said:

if entering tight corridors, thats a high risk. 

Why are you going into narrow corridors with a battleship?

On 2/5/2021 at 11:14 AM, HammerKing1982 said:

im comparing it to tirpitz, mainz,

Why? These are tier 8s, and one of them is a cruiser, so the comparison is meaningless.

As I said, Normandie is very fast for tier 6 and Lyon is no slouch at tier 7, either. They are plenty fast enough to get out of trouble. Or into trouble. This seems to be your issue, since you keep bringing up secondaries... which suggests to me that you're trying to rely on them. Have you ever considered that's not how these ships are supposed to be played? PEBKAC going on here, methinks.

--Helms

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On 2/20/2021 at 5:25 AM, thehelmsman said:

Why are you going into narrow corridors with a battleship?

Why? These are tier 8s, and one of them is a cruiser, so the comparison is meaningless.

As I said, Normandie is very fast for tier 6 and Lyon is no slouch at tier 7, either. They are plenty fast enough to get out of trouble. Or into trouble. This seems to be your issue, since you keep bringing up secondaries... which suggests to me that you're trying to rely on them. Have you ever considered that's not how these ships are supposed to be played? PEBKAC going on here, methinks.

--Helms

U dont like ships with good secondaries ? Im not sure that YOU ARE SURE what you are talking about. I have many kills on my Tirpitz WITH secondaries in close combat. Its the juice of winning in any chances you can. Normandie just a crap. Luckily Lyon is a great ship, kudos to WOWS screwing us with Norm and the next ship is the REAL DEAL.

Dont ever tell anyone Secondaries, or AA are NOT important, and DONT talk like as IF we rely on Secondaries and NOT GONNA FIRE THE MAIN BATTERIES. We are just waiting for RELOAD and sometimes Secondary SAVES YOUR [edited]....... by damaging enemy, or even better.... KILLING IT

Edited by HammerKing1982
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would appreciate if MODERATORS move this to French BB section, thanks. (posted here by mistake, my bad)

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17 hours ago, HammerKing1982 said:

U dont like ships with good secondaries ? Im not sure that YOU ARE SURE what you are talking about. I have many kills on my Tirpitz WITH secondaries in close combat. Its the juice of winning in any chances you can. Normandie just a crap. Luckily Lyon is a great ship, kudos to WOWS screwing us with Norm and the next ship is the REAL DEAL.

Dont ever tell anyone Secondaries, or AA are NOT important, and DONT talk like as IF we rely on Secondaries and NOT GONNA FIRE THE MAIN BATTERIES. We are just waiting for RELOAD and sometimes Secondary SAVES YOUR [edited]....... by damaging enemy, or even better.... KILLING IT

Secondaries are a meme. I have plenty of secondary kills too and I have my Gneisenau captain specced for full secondaries specifically for Narai and for running Tirpitz and Odin and Pommern in co-op. That is the only place I still run full secondary builds, because you can actually get away with it there. In randoms or ranked? Forget it. You play the way you want to play, but secondaries are not meta and have not been meta since the Germans first went in, except for Massachussetts in tier 8 ranked, before the skill rework. Now that's dead, too. Secondaries are fun as heck, but they are definitely not the most competitive way to spec even German battleships these days. "Good" secondaries are nice. "Good" AA is nice. The reality, however, is that no matter how "good" these things are on any given ship (and none of the Frenchies are considered to have "good" secondaries except maybe Republique), they are not reliable enough to justify the opportunity cost of sinking valuable captain skill points and upgrade slots into, or to base your positioning and tactics in battle around trying to make use of them.

I did not mean to suggest that you rely on your secondaries, and that was poor phrasing on my part. What I meant was that I believe you want to be aggressive, push in and let them do their thing, even if that's not what the French battleships are good at. Normandie certainly isn't. I wouldn't even say Lyon is good at that at because of the enormous farmable superstructure and terrible gun handling, but Lyon can kinda get away with it (even encourages it) because it has 16 main battery guns which are basically shotgun spray-and-pray weapons at any ranges further than 9-10km anyway.

This does not alter the truth of what I said about Normandie being very fast for a tier 6 battleship, which it objectively is, though you decry it for a perceived lack of ability to maneuver or evade enemy pursuit that I can only assume comes from you overextending and getting yourself into inescapable situations. The thing is, if you couldn't escape such a situation in Normandie, it is doubtful you'd be able to escape it in any other tier 6 BB, because Normandie is literally the fastest tier 6 battleship in the game, alongside Dunkerque, and it is excellent at controlling engagements within its matchmaking spread because of this. Normandie is also quite spritely and maneuverable for a tier 6 battleship, comparable to the American standard-types which are regarded as being quite wiggly, largely due to their low top speeds. To put that in perspective, Normandie has a similar turn radius, but it is also much faster. The only tier 6 BB that turns better than Normandie does is Warspite. As I hope you can see, Normandie's speed and maneuverability are excellent, and firm strengths that can be depended on in battle.... unless user error results in the speed becoming a liability because it allows for yoloing into bad positions.

I stand by my assertion that your dislike for Normandie, and the criticisms you level against it (misguided in my opinion), stem from trying to force it into bad positions in an attempt to brawl; you can brawl with it, but you have to be very careful and pick your targets wisely because its armor is unreliable and the firing arcs of the back turret are pretty bad, requiring you to give a lot of broadside. Think carefully about progressing past Lyon, because the ships past that will punish misplays and overextension even more harshly than Normandie and Lyon do, owing to the nature of the current high-tier meta. If you try to yolo into a brawl with Richelieu or Alsace you're just gonna melt, because they have papier-mâché armor all over and their secondaries are basically useless.

--Helms

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15 hours ago, HammerKing1982 said:

U dont like ships with good secondaries ? Im not sure that YOU ARE SURE what you are talking about. I have many kills on my Tirpitz WITH secondaries in close combat. Its the juice of winning in any chances you can. Normandie just a crap. Luckily Lyon is a great ship, kudos to WOWS screwing us with Norm and the next ship is the REAL DEAL.

Dont ever tell anyone Secondaries, or AA are NOT important, and DONT talk like as IF we rely on Secondaries and NOT GONNA FIRE THE MAIN BATTERIES. We are just waiting for RELOAD and sometimes Secondary SAVES YOUR [edited]....... by damaging enemy, or even better.... KILLING IT

Just because you have great secondaries doesn't mean you should make it a point to feature them every game.  I used to do that a lot when I was newer and it got me into lots of trouble in Random Battles.  There are a lot of times, especially in High Tier PVP, where it's very dangerous to push for brawls / secondaries range combat.  You have to be patient, bide your time, and watch what's happening in the match for signs when it's time to brawl.

Sometimes that time never comes in a game.  You may be forced to rely on intermediate or long ranged combat because that's all you can safely do for the time being or even the entire match.  And if you try to force it to close range at the wrong time, you're dead.  And if you die early for no good reason, then you're not doing your team any favors.  If anything, you just gave the enemy team more points towards the win (Battleships are worth a lot of points) and 1 less ship on your own team for the enemy to deal with.

 

Aggression has its time and place in WoWS, and at the right time, should be mercilessly applied.  But reckless aggression will get you sunk early.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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nope I dont agree. a good ship have perks. a bad ship no perks.

since u fought for ur point, show ME ur video of MEGA kills with Normandie, thank u

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Show us a video of a typical battle for you in Normandie, first. That ship has quite a few 'perks,' whether you realize it or not.

--Helms

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I dont play normandie, enough of the disappointment. 

Here's 2 vids of LYON, taking hits, and surviving, and killing other ships. In same scenario, Normandie already LONG DEAD.

with crapteam WOWS Lyon narrow 2 kills - YouTube

with GOOD team WOWS Lyon 3 kills - YouTube

The point of my post, is how crap Normandie is and avoid unlocking it, skip it. It has nothing to do with my skills, its a crap time wasting ship. I pay doubloons weekly to unlock good ships, I believe many players do so, skip Normandie. Lyon is the ship you unlock and a keeper. And take my advice, stop at Lyon, further on French BB all the way to Republique also a huge disappointment. Go watch youtube reviews to validate my claims. 

 

Edited by HammerKing1982
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5 hours ago, HammerKing1982 said:

nope I dont agree. a good ship have perks. a bad ship no perks.

since u fought for ur point, show ME ur video of MEGA kills with Normandie, thank u

I'll do one better since you leave me no choice.

The problem was never Normandie.  The problem was you.  On pretty much all your ships, even the ones you spent a lot of time on, you struggle.  You are doing a lot of things wrong to have 1046 Random Battles and a 41.97% Win Rate.

 

Whatever it is you believe in, whatever it is you're doing in a Random Battle, you're doing it wrong.  It's not a few ships you're having problems on, it's pretty much everything.

 

You're still at a point at 1000 Random Battles where you can turn things around, purge your bad habits, and get better.  But if you keep on going down the path you're on, believing whatever it is you believe in right now, you'll never get better.  Repeating poor actions, bad judgement in a match will only make it more natural to keep doing them.

 

I was like you, actually.  At around 1200 Random Battles, I had around a 43% Win Rate.  I thought I was pretty good, I had some weird ideas in my head, but the reality was I sucked.  I had to change my play, learn a lot of things, and got better.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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5 hours ago, HammerKing1982 said:

It has nothing to do with my skills, its a crap time wasting ship.

It has everything to do with how you're playing, and I think the general consensus is that Normandie is a capable tier 6 battleship. I still have it and I still play it. Lyon, by contrast, is long gone from my port, because the 16-gun gimmick did not offset the shotgun accuracy or terrible turret traverse and arcs of fire.

--Helms

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Normandie has the highest winrate of all non-premium T6 BB's, is 4th overall if you include premiums

 

so errm it's not the ship...

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