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reza577

Please stop flaming Deadeye

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People who sit behind everyone else and snipe all game have existed before deadeye and will exist for years to come.

Deadeye has brought ships like the repuliq and Montana back into play, ships that  no one played anymore because of the Russian power creep.

Instead of asking for deadeye to ne removed... or nerfed, ask WG for a buff to secondary so that other ships can ALSO be viable.

 

If WG nerfs Deadeye and secondary are still crap, then who would play BBs?

By the way: IAM MAINLY A SECONDARY BB PLAYER

 

Edited by reza577
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The issue with Dead Eye is that it encourages those BB's who are designed to stay in the mid range, to sit further back both through its increased accuracy, and its requirement to be outside normal surface detection. 

Most BB's are designed to play in the mid range, and there are comparatively few BB's designed to snipe or be right up close. Pushing those mid range BB's further back makes it harder to move up for cruisers and secondary BB's, and makes the meta particularly static. 

Now there's no reason to get overly angsty about it at this stage however. It is abundantly clear that this skill, along with some others, are issues, and we have yet to see the first round of skills rework balance changes which should be announced in the next week or so.  Balance was always going to be sub-optimal in the patch or two following release, and although there are plenty of areas for improvement, it hasn't been too bad really. 

Hopefully WG make the right changes to move the game in a direction that encourages mid range BB's to actually operate in the correct areas. I'm looking forward to reading the dev blog on this. 

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Just now, Moggytwo said:

The issue with Dead Eye is that it encourages those BB's who are designed to stay in the mid range, to sit further back both through its increased accuracy, and its requirement to be outside normal surface detection. 

Which is something WG designed for and you cannot even remotely think they were unaware of the meta change they were causing. This what was intended and wanted for some reason that must be too big for us to understand yet.

This was intentional design.

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Yes BBs have always tended to sit and snipe, but after 10.0 it's FAR more prevalent. You used to have a BB or two who thought they were an orbital bombardment station. Now they ALL sit back, and because the BBs aren't pushing the cruisers don't push. Whether or not the skill works is irrelevant, it has absolutely encouraged the playerbase to take a more passive style of play. That's what everyone is (rightfully IMO) upset about. WG seems to have reduced the ease of secondary builds to some extent and at the same time added skills that work at long range, thus encouraging the long range passive style that pretty everyone dislikes.

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3 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Yes BBs have always tended to sit and snipe, but after 10.0 it's FAR more prevalent. You used to have a BB or two who thought they were an orbital bombardment station. Now they ALL sit back, and because the BBs aren't pushing the cruisers don't push. Whether or not the skill works is irrelevant, it has absolutely encouraged the playerbase to take a more passive style of play. That's what everyone is (rightfully IMO) upset about. WG seems to have reduced the ease of secondary builds to some extent and at the same time added skills that work at long range, thus encouraging the long range passive style that pretty everyone dislikes.

i dont know man...

 

why would you want BBs to be close range? what made me rage quit this game about a year ago was the HE spamming crusers who would  farm your BB all game, and wouldn't let you get close to them.

If a BB CANT get close to push, then why are you guys forcing WG to nerf deadeye?

 

iam fine with pushing in as a BB if there are no invisible ships hiding behind islands spamming HE at me.

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30 minutes ago, reza577 said:

People who sit behind everyone else and snipe all game have existed before deadeye and will exist for years to come.

Deadeye has brought ships like the repuliq and Montana back into play, ships that  no one played anymore because of the Russian power creep.

Instead of asking for deadeye to ne removed... or nerfed, ask WG for a buff to secondary so that other ships can ALSO be viable.

 

If WG nerfs Deadeye and secondary are still crap, then who would play BBs?

By the way: IAM MAINLY A SECONDARY BB PLAYER

 

 

 

By your logic, I shouldn't fix a broken clock because it is correct twice a day.

 

A borked skill is borked.  

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1 minute ago, Chain_shot said:

Which is something WG designed for and you cannot even remotely think they were unaware of the meta change they were causing. This what was intended and wanted for some reason that must be too big for us to understand yet.

This was intentional design.

Well I would say the design intent of this skill is make those mid range BB's who normally sit outside their surface concealment range, in the 13-17km bracket, to be a bit more accurate while they continue to operate at the same range as they used to. 

I'm sure WG were aware that this may cause some players to operate further back, but I doubt they predicted just how much of an effect it would have. 

The skill is over allocated in power for four points as well, because 10% is actually a 19% reduction in ellipse area. They likely misjudged this a bit. 

WG's preferred method of balancing is very data driven, and they seem to release major changes within a fairly broad balance range, and then use the massive amount of data from the live server to inform their balance changes. It is a system that works fine and is relatively rapid in terms of getting to the final balanced product, but it does lead to a patch or two of sub-optimal balance after each major release. 

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Finely balanced product.

HA. We switched to HE because AP bounces. Better to just burn em. There is a point at which are close enough to use AP and crit them. However most people will shoot up a lone BB and sink same trying to get across the map.

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30 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Yes BBs have always tended to sit and snipe, but after 10.0 it's FAR more prevalent. You used to have a BB or two who thought they were an orbital bombardment station. Now they ALL sit back, and because the BBs aren't pushing the cruisers don't push. Whether or not the skill works is irrelevant, it has absolutely encouraged the playerbase to take a more passive style of play. That's what everyone is (rightfully IMO) upset about. WG seems to have reduced the ease of secondary builds to some extent and at the same time added skills that work at long range, thus encouraging the long range passive style that pretty everyone dislikes.

I just don’t think this is true except maybe in tier 10 games .Already it seems like it’s no where near as bad as it was the first few days or the first week  . I don’t get it before everyone was complaining about secondary builds and how they require no skill . The Massachusetts was OP and took no skill to play same with Georgia Ohio , FDG  . I have over 1500 games played in the Massachusetts I love that ship but it’s kind of fun to have to play everything a little differently . Have new skills to choose from . I’m kind of enjoying experimenting with new builds . If I didn’t have to work so much right now I would play more .

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1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

Yes BBs have always tended to sit and snipe, but after 10.0 it's FAR more prevalent. You used to have a BB or two who thought they were an orbital bombardment station. Now they ALL sit back, and because the BBs aren't pushing the cruisers don't push. Whether or not the skill works is irrelevant, it has absolutely encouraged the playerbase to take a more passive style of play. That's what everyone is (rightfully IMO) upset about. WG seems to have reduced the ease of secondary builds to some extent and at the same time added skills that work at long range, thus encouraging the long range passive style that pretty everyone dislikes.

That is entirely wrong...

 

As an Alpha player myself, the balance between ships used to be far better... DD's jobs were the most difficult, but had the highest payout. (Risk vs reward) with the torpedoes, etc. BB's rudder shift time was far better, and the secondaries hit like trucks. They were the spotters, and supporters of the team.

IJN BB's were snipers at mid range. American BB's were brawlers at mid range pushing forward, and being the thorn in the side of enemy teams. They were the main target because of the high damage, high HP pool, and that alone took much of the threat off of cruisers, allowing cruisers to sail behind them un hindered.

Then German BB's came into the fray. The up front, F all y'all secondaries, but even by this time the balance in the game was starting to get out of whack.. BB rudder shift times were nerfed considerably, secondaries were F'd with, etc.. BB's could still do their job, but now cruisers even by this time were starting to get focused more heavily because BB's just were not a threat anymore, even pushing forward due to these nerfs...

 

Then the IFHE skill came into play along with fire spitter laser accurate rail guns of cruisers, able to make a battleship go from 100-0 in a matter of 30 seconds or less, making it impossible for battleships to do ther jobs anymore.. This was as far back as the first 2-3 years of release.. Because of the insane damage output of cruisers, this made it also impossible for Battleships to be the spearhead again, not only are they now getting absolutely wrecked by just 2 cruisers with IFHE spamming firess, and HE damage destroying secondaries and AA's, any following cruiser could be immediately focused by anybody else and get B slapped to hell in seconds because of how insanely OP cruiser damage had become.. The battleships were just extra bonus exp and silver, the real threat was the Cruiser...

 

Now for the past 3 years, DD's have become the absolute power house of broken OPness, although just barely over the cruisers insane damage output.. Everybody loves to say "but... durrr... uhhh.. why then does.. uhhh ... errr... *Drools* DD's not do as much damage on average!?" Well my gloriously ignorant friend, its because of everything else the destroyer can do with complete impunity.... Spot half the enemy team completely unhindered... Get away from being focused due to the removal of citadels from destroyers, and the nerf to accuracy on everything when it comes to battleships, and CV"s. (The CV re work drastically lowered the CV's ability to 1 shot DD's... which was quite common and easy before teh CV rework.. and when I mean 1 shot.. I literally mean... 1 shot... spotted destroyer did not last longer than a few seconds before teh CV rework). I could go more into why DD"s are so broken OP regardless of what people say, but this isn't the point of my response...

 

The point being.. Battleships were not "intended" to be snipers... They were "intended" to be up front and take the damage, while they pushed.. hence why they have the highest HP pools, + heals.. THey were expected to have to use them...

 

IF Battelships were intended to be snipers.. they wouldn't of removed the artillery birds eye view mechanic from battleships that they had in Alpha. (which was very similar to world of tanks artillery view)... Yes I remember that... Instead, they gave the battleships HP regain skills, buffed torpedo protection, buffed rudder shift time, and secondary damage/accuracy and removed the artillery view... gee.. I wonder why... Maybe its because Battleships were always supposed to be pushing forward... (Still makes me wonder why they then nerfed the rudder shift time a few months after release though..)

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1 hour ago, reza577 said:

Instead of asking for deadeye to ne removed... or nerfed, ask WG for a buff to secondary so that other ships can ALSO be viable.

If WG nerfs Deadeye and secondary are still crap, then who would play BBs?

By the way: IAM MAINLY A SECONDARY BB PLAYER

 

Deadeye completely changed the battleship meta now. Those BBs with ranges beyond 22km (which most of them have) this is a major buff. However, those battleships who max ranges are 22km and below, it is a nerf to the ships themselves. The German BBs do not get range increases without spotter planes if they have them. Russians...they're in worse shape. Now...these "brawling short ranged main gun BBs are by far rendered obsolete when compared to the US, British, French, and Japanese lines. Completely out ranged not one of the German or Russian BBs can compete without being drawn in towards the other BBs who are at or near the far back lines. Doing so allows them to be shot to pieces or burned to death before they can be in effective range by all enemy ships. Having to use the concealment skill doesn't give much either. A lone destroyer, or CA with outstanding concealment, or the mighty squadron of planes render Deadeye moot when spotted.

This skill has completely unbalanced the projection of fire power to the side of those BBs and some CAs who has main gun range greater than the aforementioned German and Russian BBs. Secondary purposed brawlers are rendered useless too and unable to get into their EFFECTIVE range either. 12km buff of maximum range does not improve their problems. This skill change has rendered two battleship lines and all secondary brawlers useless in this new battleship meta they created. Why would anyone take their German or Russian BBs into battle where they'll be shot up before they can add their weight of fire to the battle when the other BBs can sit back and snipe with near impunity at those ships REQUIRED to close in only to be destroyed before they can do any good?

These changes of skills and addition to Deadeye is nothing more than a short sighted change by WoWS developers thinking this is a new "coolness factor." I have no reason to sail any of my German or Russian BBs when they are unable to compete in a battle where they are completely at a disadvantage to all those non-German/Russian BBs. Thanks WG, great job removing 2 BBs from the line of battle. What's next? Submarines will rule the sea? Or will CVs get another buff so they can emulate what they were really like in WW2?

And before anyone questions EFFECTIVE range, it is NOT MAXIMUM range. Effective range is that range where the guns are capable of hitting with the effectiveness of doing damage. The two are not the same.

So, developers, how are you going to address this major disadvantage for the German and Russian BBs? You going to wait for 5 months gathering data before making a decision or even longer? Hell, during that time you might not see many of those BBs played. Oh yeah, thanks for the off-hand nerf to my German premium BBs too. I do so appreciate that.

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7 minutes ago, StrykerGaming said:

Deadeye completely changed the battleship meta now. Those BBs with ranges beyond 22km (which most of them have) this is a major buff. However, those battleships who max ranges are 22km and below, it is a nerf to the ships themselves. The German BBs do not get range increases without spotter planes if they have them. Russians...they're in worse shape. Now...these "brawling short ranged main gun BBs are by far rendered obsolete when compared to the US, British, French, and Japanese lines. Completely out ranged not one of the German or Russian BBs can compete without being drawn in towards the other BBs who are at or near the far back lines. Doing so allows them to be shot to pieces or burned to death before they can be in effective range by all enemy ships. Having to use the concealment skill doesn't give much either. A lone destroyer, or CA with outstanding concealment, or the mighty squadron of planes render Deadeye moot when spotted.

This skill has completely unbalanced the projection of fire power to the side of those BBs and some CAs who has main gun range greater than the aforementioned German and Russian BBs. Secondary purposed brawlers are rendered useless too and unable to get into their EFFECTIVE range either. 12km buff of maximum range does not improve their problems. This skill change has rendered two battleship lines and all secondary brawlers useless in this new battleship meta they created. Why would anyone take their German or Russian BBs into battle where they'll be shot up before they can add their weight of fire to the battle when the other BBs can sit back and snipe with near impunity at those ships REQUIRED to close in only to be destroyed before they can do any good?

These changes of skills and addition to Deadeye is nothing more than a short sighted change by WoWS developers thinking this is a new "coolness factor." I have no reason to sail any of my German or Russian BBs when they are unable to compete in a battle where they are completely at a disadvantage to all those non-German/Russian BBs. Thanks WG, great job removing 2 BBs from the line of battle. What's next? Submarines will rule the sea? Or will CVs get another buff so they can emulate what they were really like in WW2?

And before anyone questions EFFECTIVE range, it is NOT MAXIMUM range. Effective range is that range where the guns are capable of hitting with the effectiveness of doing damage. The two are not the same.

So, developers, how are you going to address this major disadvantage for the German and Russian BBs? You going to wait for 5 months gathering data before making a decision or even longer? Hell, during that time you might not see many of those BBs played. Oh yeah, thanks for the off-hand nerf to my German premium BBs too. I do so appreciate that.

WG needs to buff secondary's, and not nerf sniping ships.

people  keep saying you cant push with all these sniping battleships.. [edited]. since when could you just hold down W and push in as a BB? you would get torped and HE spammed to death before you could make it to middle of the map or a cap.

 

The previous meta was invisible cruisers who would sit behind islands and HE spam the BB. i even rage quit this game when smolensk came out because you could never push in as a BB with smolenks HE spam.

the meta has changed, it was changed when they added in HE spamming cursers a couple of years ago, and they didnt buff battle ships fire prevention. 

WG have already said they like where the secondary ships are at the moment and they wont buff them, so pray to god they wont nerf deadeye because then no one will play BBs, or if they do it will be thunderers who have deadeye built in.

Fun diverse meta that will be... lol 

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Mmm... nah. I'll bash a bad skill that shouldn't have been implemented because it encourages bad play.  Not that bad BB players needed incentive to play badly and hide in the back. Now you have geniuses (/s) putting deadeye on ships it's bad on due to having bad long range dispersion (Kremlin, Kurfurst, etc) and thinking it makes them snipers now. -10% off crap doesn't turn crap into gold.

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6kc5unz6xwe61.png

 

 

I do miss the good old days, when we had no deadeye...

8 thunderers and 1 yamato and 1 republique.

Yes those were the good times... (sarcasm)

Edited by reza577
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2 hours ago, reza577 said:

People who sit behind everyone else and snipe all game have existed before deadeye and will exist for years to come.

Deadeye has brought ships like the repuliq and Montana back into play, ships that  no one played anymore because of the Russian power creep.

Instead of asking for deadeye to ne removed... or nerfed, ask WG for a buff to secondary so that other ships can ALSO be viable.

 

If WG nerfs Deadeye and secondary are still crap, then who would play BBs?

By the way: IAM MAINLY A SECONDARY BB PLAYER

 

I never stopped playing Republique. Fun ship.   And screw Deadeye; I'm advancing.

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2 hours ago, reza577 said:

People who sit behind everyone else and snipe all game have existed before deadeye and will exist for years to come.

Deadeye has brought ships like the repuliq and Montana back into play, ships that  no one played anymore because of the Russian power creep.

Instead of asking for deadeye to ne removed... or nerfed, ask WG for a buff to secondary so that other ships can ALSO be viable.

 

If WG nerfs Deadeye and secondary are still crap, then who would play BBs?

By the way: IAM MAINLY A SECONDARY BB PLAYER

 

Many like me aren't exactly 'flaming' DeadEye - I see no reason why those BBs that are meant to operate a little further back get a Captain skill that helps in this build. Very much like the secondary Captain skills helped with those BBs that were Brawlers.

However, WG were again silly in its implementation - in that when introducing such a skill for engagement at distance - they went and nerfed a playstyle many enjoyed (Secondary close-up builds). In addition they have made some question whether they can get more from the DeadEye than from the other options they have.

The real danger is this will cause many who maybe do not know the strengths and weaknesses of some of the BBs to pick this skill as the norm - causing many more to play from the back.

 

That nudge towards a change in playstyle and more playing from the back is what many are worried about (IMO). :Smile_honoring:

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12 minutes ago, reza577 said:

6kc5unz6xwe61.png

 

 

I do miss the good old days, when we had no deadeye...

8 thunderers and 1 yamato and 1 republique.

Yes those were the good times... (sarcasm)

People hate Deadeye precisely BECAUSE it encourages/rewards backline camping behaviors like that in a ship type that was already prone to it.

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1 minute ago, Zaydin said:

People hate Deadeye precisely BECAUSE it encourages/rewards backline camping behaviors like that in a ship type that was already prone to it.

I guess I have to join the crowd in my Conq and spam nothing but HE from this day forward. This is what WG wants now? Right? :cap_hmm:

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32 minutes ago, reza577 said:

WG needs to buff secondary's, and not nerf sniping ships.

people  keep saying you cant push with all these sniping battleships.. [edited]. since when could you just hold down W and push in as a BB? you would get torped and HE spammed to death before you could make it to middle of the map or a cap.

 

The previous meta was invisible cruisers who would sit behind islands and HE spam the BB. i even rage quit this game when smolensk came out because you could never push in as a BB with smolenks HE spam.

the meta has changed, it was changed when they added in HE spamming cursers a couple of years ago, and they didnt buff battle ships fire prevention. 

WG have already said they like where the secondary ships are at the moment and they wont buff them, so pray to god they wont nerf deadeye because then no one will play BBs, or if they do it will be thunderers who have deadeye built in.

Fun diverse meta that will be... lol 

Spoken like BB main.

You know there are other ships in the game....I try to play all classes....and lemme tell you about my Yorck game tonight.

The first 10 minutes was nonstop dodging of deadeye salvos from Georgias, Iowas, and Musashis.  I was having trouble even getting into my 17km firing range to be able to do anything.  All these BBs are so fixated on trying to blap a cruiser that one of them kept shooting at me from 15km away even though a friendly Georgia was engaging him from 4km away.  Even though I dodged 95% of it, with all the overmatch in the game now I eventually ate 1 cit through stern.  By the end of the game I did ok but was below my usual damage and had tanked 1.9 million in a low hp non healing cruiser...most of it in the first 10 minutes.

If this continues like this, lots of cruiser players will move on to other ships (or games).  

Edited by YouSatInGum
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DEADEYE  the gift that just keeps giving BORDER HUMPERS, BOW CAMPERS and ISLAND HOPPERS the ability for your brain to turn to mush. 

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3 hours ago, Chain_shot said:

Which is something WG designed for and you cannot even remotely think they were unaware of the meta change they were causing. This what was intended and wanted for some reason that must be too big for us to understand yet.

This was intentional design.

Of course it was intentional. You see, they were tired of being berated for the CV mess, so they needed to get people complaining about something else. Presto!

Now CV complaints are in the back burner.

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The fact that snipers existed before doesn't mean every BB out there needed an incentive to keep running away from battle and punish any other class more reliably. Why not, I don't know, rebalance the Montana and Republiqué instead of doing a globa screw up?

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5 hours ago, reza577 said:

1. People who sit behind everyone else and snipe all game have existed before deadeye and will exist for years to come.

Deadeye has brought ships like the repuliq and Montana back into play, ships that  no one played anymore because of the Russian power creep.

Instead of asking for deadeye to ne removed... or nerfed, 2. ask WG for a buff to secondary so that other ships can ALSO be viable.

 

If WG nerfs Deadeye and secondary are still crap, then who would play BBs?

By the way: IAM MAINLY A SECONDARY BB PLAYER

 

1.  Completely agree, however this has completely exacerbated the problem when I'm seeing BB's literally flee at 16km to keep dead eye on.

2.  Sure that would help....if I could actually use my secondaries consistently.  3/4ths of the time I have to sit here taking pot shots at max range too because pushing at all means being the belle of the ball and getting focused by the HE spam and the back line snipers.

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5 hours ago, reza577 said:

i dont know man...

 

why would you want BBs to be close range? what made me rage quit this game about a year ago was the HE spamming crusers who would  farm your BB all game, and wouldn't let you get close to them.

If a BB CANT get close to push, then why are you guys forcing WG to nerf deadeye?

 

iam fine with pushing in as a BB if there are no invisible ships hiding behind islands spamming HE at me.

This is where team work is supposed to come in.  If multiple BB's push in at once with cruiser and DD support.  The damage will be distributed.  This is why the current meta is so frustrating with a brawling BB, if you go in you are largely going in alone, which is an untenable situation.  So you are forced to sit back too, with likely an inferior main battery at range.

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