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caspertoo

major problem, post 10.0 the game just isn't fun

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I always had a big issue with the CV's, they don't fit the meta of the game.  But that's fine, I liked ships like the german BB's or the russian BB's that could super tank and get closer.  Post 10.0, in any game above rank 8, all the BB's do is sit at long range and snipe.  Wargaming, this isn't fun.  It's not fun to sit back and snipe all day or to try to push in against snipers.  You still have the CV problem and now the game is losing my interest.  I would hope no matter what you want the game to be fun to play.  

The only viable build for BB's is deadeye.  Pre 10.0 german BB's seemed to be getting power crept but post 10.0 there are no secondary builds that can hold their own.   

I was honestly thinking of putting in the money to convert enough into free xp to get the smaland but now I just don't see the point.  

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42 minutes ago, caspertoo said:

The only viable build for BB's is deadeye.  Pre 10.0 german BB's seemed to be getting power crept but post 10.0 there are no secondary builds that can hold their own.   

I am willing to bet that when @LittleWhiteMouse posts her Battleship review that we will find out Dead Eye Mania is all in people's heads, and that only a couple of battleships actually get enough of a benefit from the skill to be mathematically worth it, just like she debunked the value of Dazzle in her destroyers review. It wouldn't surprise me if this whole metagame mess is a simple matter of false perception. 

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Why you guys always reduce all the game experience to T10?

Game is a lot more than one tier, 90% of the game (more really, considering Coop, Ops, etc) is still very enjoyable and the impact of deadeye in the meta is neglegible.

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6 minutes ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

I am willing to bet that when @LittleWhiteMouse posts her Battleship review that we will find out Dead Eye Mania is all in people's heads, and that only a couple of battleships actually get enough of a benefit from the skill to be mathematically worth it, just like she debunked the value of Dazzle in her destroyers review. It wouldn't surprise me if this whole metagame mess is a simple matter of false perception. 

The unfortunate fact is that it doesn't matter if it is effective or not.  Because it is in people's heads, it has prompted a change in behaviours.  This is similar to how before the Royal Navy battleships were introduced, battleships firing HE was greatly frowned upon.  "Always fire AP!" was the adage for battleships.  Now even non Royal Navy battleships toss HE about on the regular, with ammunition choices among battleships being a lot more dynamic and the norm since the Royal Navy battleship introduction.

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Why are peopling acting like this is something new? Bad battleship players sitting at max range spamming whatever they drunkedly shoved in their barrels has been a part of the game for much longer than the skill rework, or even the CV re-work.

Its just now that there is a skill that benefits that play style... sort of. Smaller dispersion might be more accurate when you aim right, but its also easier to dodge, especially when your shells take 15+ seconds to land and you can no longer rely on its shotgun like spread to hit your target.

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48 minutes ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

I am willing to bet that when @LittleWhiteMouse posts her Battleship review that we will find out Dead Eye Mania is all in people's heads, and that only a couple of battleships actually get enough of a benefit from the skill to be mathematically worth it, just like she debunked the value of Dazzle in her destroyers review. It wouldn't surprise me if this whole metagame mess is a simple matter of false perception. 

Agreed. From a CA main..

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4 hours ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

I am willing to bet that when @LittleWhiteMouse posts her Battleship review that we will find out Dead Eye Mania is all in people's heads, and that only a couple of battleships actually get enough of a benefit from the skill to be mathematically worth it, just like she debunked the value of Dazzle in her destroyers review. It wouldn't surprise me if this whole metagame mess is a simple matter of false perception. 

Anybody can see that 10% bonus accuracy to Battleships is a joke...

But that isn't the problem and you completely ignored 80% of his post.... The fact that Secondary builds, and tanking is obsolete and non existent.. which they are...

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4 hours ago, Farm_Fresh_Eggs said:

The game hasn't been as fun since 0.7.12.

 

Game has been a steady downhill since Alpha actually... The most fun I had was Alpha.. Beta was pretty stellar too when balance actually was a thing, and all classes were great at what they were supposed to do...

It's been one hell of a dive every year from that as WGing keeps adding more and more unbalanced, broken, or idiotic additions to the game....

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4 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

The unfortunate fact is that it doesn't matter if it is effective or not.  Because it is in people's heads, it has prompted a change in behaviours.  This is similar to how before the Royal Navy battleships were introduced, battleships firing HE was greatly frowned upon.  "Always fire AP!" was the adage for battleships.  Now even non Royal Navy battleships toss HE about on the regular, with ammunition choices among battleships being a lot more dynamic and the norm since the Royal Navy battleship introduction.

Part of that shift probably also came when WG capped the damage BB caliber AP shells do to DDs to 10% of their max damage which meant that BBs switching to HE to smash DDs was the preferable option to tickling them with an AP shell.

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I have more folks who love to sit right outside the cap and watch it being taken.  I have seen so little of sniping in the back it is not funny but so many in the forum only see it.

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8 hours ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

I am willing to bet that when @LittleWhiteMouse posts her Battleship review that we will find out Dead Eye Mania is all in people's heads, and that only a couple of battleships actually get enough of a benefit from the skill to be mathematically worth it, just like she debunked the value of Dazzle in her destroyers review. It wouldn't surprise me if this whole metagame mess is a simple matter of false perception. 

Any false perception is far from a simple matter.

LWM may "debunked" Dazzle, but who besides us will know that, or even knows who LWM is I. the first place.

IMO, Flamu has a greater influence than LWM, simply because more of the playerbase at large knows who he is and watches his videos.

It doesn't matter what LWM says, if you believe the skill to be a big deal, based on your own observations, you're going to try to exploit it.

 

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7 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

The unfortunate fact is that it doesn't matter if it is effective or not.  Because it is in people's heads, it has prompted a change in behaviours.  This is similar to how before the Royal Navy battleships were introduced, battleships firing HE was greatly frowned upon.  "Always fire AP!" was the adage for battleships.  Now even non Royal Navy battleships toss HE about on the regular, with ammunition choices among battleships being a lot more dynamic and the norm since the Royal Navy battleship introduction.

Well, feels very effective, in a game I played with a BB (Hood) , hit more at long range than at close. Even more, I just cant hit a Tallin at 11km (bow on), but hit him hard twice before, at 14-16km.

With my Tirpitz can "snipe at long range, but a close quarters (7km!!!) just landed 2 shells on a broadside Riga.

Maybe some numbers change my mind about this, I ll be waitting....

:fish_book:

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8 hours ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

I am willing to bet that when @LittleWhiteMouse posts her Battleship review that we will find out Dead Eye Mania is all in people's heads, and that only a couple of battleships actually get enough of a benefit from the skill to be mathematically worth it, just like she debunked the value of Dazzle in her destroyers review. It wouldn't surprise me if this whole metagame mess is a simple matter of false perception. 

EDIT: LittleWhiteMouse already hit the nail on the head.  She could say it's terrible and people will still use it.  Her HE analogy was perfect.  

Furthermore it objectively, just, isn't a bad skill.  What I hope people will realize is, you don't have to hump the map edge to use it.  Seriously, play a game with the dead eye concealment combo, but pretend you don't have it. (Don't yolo charge) but move up at a reasonable pace and you will find, most other ships don't want to be visible in your detectability bubble.  You will find you can reasonable push to mid range and will still benefit from dead eye.  If the skill is here to stay I at least hope people realize that and stop with this OMG a ship is within 16km of me, better turn and kite crap.

 

Edited by Taco_De_Moist

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3 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

Anybody can see that 10% bonus accuracy to Battleships is a joke...

If that were truly the case, we wouldn't see so many using it, would we? (and the 10% bonus to dispersion actually gives an almost 20% reduction to the size of the dispersion ellipse)

The fact is, only a few can see that it's a joke, which means that, for all intents and purposes, it isn't. The ones who see truly simply have the "secret" opportunity to spend that 4pts elsewhere to better effect.

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8 hours ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

I am willing to bet that when @LittleWhiteMouse posts her Battleship review that we will find out Dead Eye Mania is all in people's heads, and that only a couple of battleships actually get enough of a benefit from the skill to be mathematically worth it, just like she debunked the value of Dazzle in her destroyers review. It wouldn't surprise me if this whole metagame mess is a simple matter of false perception. 

It doesn't matter whether it is as useful as people think or not. It's that people are being told they must play in specific ways to get bonuses. So then people are playing in those specific ways whether or not the bonus is valid or not. 

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The issues with Deadeye is cost/perception/playstyle.

Just like a secondary build promotes a specific playstyle, so does Deadeye. With the cost associated with each build one promotes getting close, the other promotes distance. The distance model (deadeye) makes life safer for BB players, most would argue that a secondary build is more fun but definitely not safer. So now we have nerfed Secondary builds and buffed long distance builds. BB players will migrate to an easier and safer mode since the fun option has been negated.

How do you think the game will be affected?

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8 hours ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

I am willing to bet that when @LittleWhiteMouse posts her Battleship review that we will find out Dead Eye Mania is all in people's heads, and that only a couple of battleships actually get enough of a benefit from the skill to be mathematically worth it, just like she debunked the value of Dazzle in her destroyers review. It wouldn't surprise me if this whole metagame mess is a simple matter of false perception. 

The effect on gameplay is real regardless of how marginal or situational the real effects are. 

 

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7 hours ago, JimmyTheRealPirate said:

Why are peopling acting like this is something new? Bad battleship players sitting at max range spamming whatever they drunkedly shoved in their barrels has been a part of the game for much longer than the skill rework, or even the CV re-work.

Its just now that there is a skill that benefits that play style... sort of. Smaller dispersion might be more accurate when you aim right, but its also easier to dodge, especially when your shells take 15+ seconds to land and you can no longer rely on its shotgun like spread to hit your target.

It's not but you are blind if you haven't noticed the passive play being taken to a whole other level.  I played 30-40 games in secondary ships following the rework.  My performance tanked.  I would have the odd good game, but seriously most were bad.  The Massachusetts was arguably my best ship with the most games played.  My PR dropped from great to very good.  My average damage dropped by about 3000.  I didn't just all of a sudden start sucking at the ship.  It also has nothing to do with the "nerfed" secondaries.  It has everything to do with being forced to play back even moreso than before, where the Mass's main guns are pretty much dependent on RNG.  You can line up shots on ships at 17km+ all day with that thing doesn't matter if one shell hits the superstructure and the rest are a mix of falling short and going long and maybe one out of every 5 volleys will actually have a solid grouping.  I've mothballed them for the time being hoping people ease back on this playstyle.  I'm not going to bother with them when I can throw dead eye on my Amagi (which I did) and I can just sit here and obliterate people with the 410's at max range.

Edited by Taco_De_Moist

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7 hours ago, JimmyTheRealPirate said:

Why are peopling acting like this is something new? Bad battleship players sitting at max range spamming whatever they drunkedly shoved in their barrels has been a part of the game for much longer than the skill rework, or even the CV re-work.

So because X% of players used to play poorly, it's no big deal if a change in the game encourages 2X% or 3X% of players to play poorly? 

 

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I have noticed more passive gameplay in coop as well.  Most likely from more randos playing coop.

Otherwise, business as usual.

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18 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

The effect on gameplay is real regardless of how marginal or situational the real effects are. 

 

which is really the greatest con in the entire game. Most skills are rarely used in each game. The list is to long to name them all. But people are willing to spend real money on them.... It's comical really. 

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I think it is a mistake to try and play the same way as you did pre-10.0. Trying to do so will result in frustration.

The thing about Deadeye is that it affects low percentage shots. “10% accuracy” is 10% more accuracy, without all the other factors that affect accuracy playing in. The total overall percentage remains low on long shots. Sure, I have it on a few ships, it sucked on others and I removed it. I have not found it to be a world changer except when firing at potato type “snipers” who want to sit there, or slowly move backwards at 20+ km. And in my opinion they deserve the damage for their efforts. 
 

I played almost 20 games last night, with chat turned off for the most of them. You know what: without all the salt and toxic chatter - it was the same things I’ve always enjoyed about WoWS. It was fun.

 

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4 minutes ago, utgotye said:

I have noticed more passive gameplay in coop as well.  Most likely from more randos playing coop.

Otherwise, business as usual.

That is what it is.  The meta for the bots isn't going to change though.  They will still just blow the whistle and charge.

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Fun is subjective. If you’re not enjoying the game, take a break or move on. Statements like “the only viable build for BB’s is deadeye” makes it apparent that you’re your own biggest obstacle right now.

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