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Captain Skill / KM Secondary nerf: Could there be a Refund (Coal/XP) for Gunther Lutjens

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Since the Cpt. Skill rework and KM Sec-Bat accuracy/skill nerf has negated the steadily diminished viability of Secondary Builds, I was wondering if there could be a Coal+Invested XP refund for Gunther Lutjens. I bought Gunther and raised him to 19pts to improve my KM Sec-builds (once my favorite) particularly on the Bismark. Now as WG made the USN ships better at that too and introduced the "Dead Eye" skill, all he has to offer a BB player is improved "Grease The Gears" and  "Preventative Maintenance" which is not worth 175000 Coal. If the current skills were in effect at the time I doubt many of us would have bought him. Even an adjustment to Gunther to improve Sec-Bat accuracy would help. I currently have him running the same Range-spam/Stealth/Anti-fire build as all our BB Cpts. with the exception of "Long Range Sec-Bat Shells" as a pale DD-Deterrent. Flamu's video says it all.

 

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Gunther is still great on cruisers and graff zeppelin, and even the accuracy of the German BB is not as bad as it seems. 

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This is true for other premium captains. Ovetchkin for instance has a HP buff, but now you can't use it on BBs anymore. 

I miss that. It kind of ruins it for me. 

Unless WG plans to fix these captains later.

Because WG can't nerf premiums, but they can buff them. 

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45 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

Ovetchkin for instance has a HP buff, but now you can't use it on BBs anymore.

Oh, what a shame.

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Special captains have improved skills, which are still in place. If anything, some of these skills have been changed so that only certain classes have access. This is honestly better for the game considering how some skills are better for certain ship types than others. Part of the rework was to better address this.

I don't see any sort of refund for special captains considering they offer more than just improved skills. Many offer cosmetic changes such as a broad pennant and colored shell tracers. There is also something to be said of conditional skills such as Lutjen's Iron Strike or Halsey's Hit Hard! talent, whose benefit can change the tide of certain engagements.

Besides, the general consensus is to pick up special captains for their conditional skills, and ironically Lutjen's secondary battery skill leaves much to be desired. You would be better off placing him on a cruiser or destroyer to better proc his talents.

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@PapaOoooPowPow, one quick note about Lutjens - I don't know if you play DD's , but his one buff of spot 3 enemies and Proc a 300hp/ship level  heal is pretty cool. That 3000 heal on Z52 can really help. A good many captains miss that buff. 

The German BB's have always been my most enjoyable line because of the secondary's and brawling it up. They are currently an exercise in frustration. So I simply do not play them anymore since the skill rework. Sad days :(  

 I think many captains feel your pain regarding the loss of viability of speccing full secondary build compared to past. It was put forward by WG that Top Grade Gunner would add to the secondary build effectiveness.

11 points to go full secondary when at least 50% of the enemy fleet is now doing it's best to stay 15-25km from anyone else with Deadeye has broken Secondary builds in the game.

Deadeye is Too strong and has zero downside. particularly with captains clever enough to play at the edge of their detection, Ships like a survival/deadeye Monty at 14.1km - She's lethal now. rather than the silliness we are seeing 20+km back on the map edge.

 Ships like Thunderer are always bad for the game, the intense HE spam we are seeing with more captains playing that ship and cruisers with "improved HE damage"  is now at insane levels - Yamato was always accurate, now she, Vermont, even Monty are extremely nasty and they never close to secondary range. Their newfound accuracy means if we as a secondary build try to close support our DD"s like we used to we just get beaten down like never before.  ( obviously using islands best we can to mitigate incoming etc) 

 

Secondary building costs too much and  we have to give up far too much survivability for those skills. Even my Massa and Georgia builds - I used to play secondary - heck i ran massa ifhe secondary to good effect before the ifhe nerf 

Now i run a survival / deadeye build on massa/georgia/ohio and just let the shorter range secondary's alone. Again - Very Sad.  Those 3 premium USN BB's need extended secondary range - probably 12.0 km, and Secondary skills just plain need more love. They just simply cost too much for what we get in performance today. The trade off of secondary's for survival skills is currently a no brainer. Secondary builds are now unsatisfying and short in most matches. 

A little quality of life improvements might be if the German BB's gained similar immunity to USN BB's from repair party. During The Action time of repair party, the ship is immune to new fires or floods. With the slot 1 coal module from the armory and picking the right skills, the USN can have 30.8 sec of immunity. The Germans max is  25.4

I think the best thing WG should consider is to bake in some Survival buffs to the secondary skills themselves something like these:

 

- Add 5-10% extra fire resistance to long range secondary's skill 

- Add 5-10% damage control and repair party cool down buff to Improved secondary battery aiming skill <<< This skill is FAR too expensive as is. 

Top Grade gunner for 4 points is just a No Go skill. and I don't know how they fix it - The secondary range limit to trigger it is so rarely hit that this is a terrible use of skill points. ANY of the survival skills are far better for a BB trying to more closely support his/her team.  Emergency repair expert or Fire prevention will keep you alive a good while longer. Adrenalin rush will give Far more bang for your offensive buck - at 50% health ALL of your secondary's, AA and main guns fire 10% quicker.

Hopefully we see some meaningful changes to several skills soon,  & perhaps consider setting your calendar - Feb 16th - you may want to zero out captains skills especially on ships you do not play much before the next update & the free respecs are gone - I suspect if we see much for Skill changes, WG will give us more free respecs, but always best to play it safe 

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2 hours ago, Karandar said:

@PapaOoooPowPow, one quick note about Lutjens - I don't know if you play DD's , but his one buff of spot 3 enemies and Proc a 300hp/ship level  heal is pretty cool. That 3000 heal on Z52 can really help. A good many captains miss that buff. 

The German BB's have always been my most enjoyable line because of the secondary's and brawling it up. They are currently an exercise in frustration. So I simply do not play them anymore since the skill rework. Sad days :(  

 I think many captains feel your pain regarding the loss of viability of speccing full secondary build compared to past. It was put forward by WG that Top Grade Gunner would add to the secondary build effectiveness.

11 points to go full secondary when at least 50% of the enemy fleet is now doing it's best to stay 15-25km from anyone else with Deadeye has broken Secondary builds in the game.

Deadeye is Too strong and has zero downside. particularly with captains clever enough to play at the edge of their detection, Ships like a survival/deadeye Monty at 14.1km - She's lethal now. rather than the silliness we are seeing 20+km back on the map edge.

 Ships like Thunderer are always bad for the game, the intense HE spam we are seeing with more captains playing that ship and cruisers with "improved HE damage"  is now at insane levels - Yamato was always accurate, now she, Vermont, even Monty are extremely nasty and they never close to secondary range. Their newfound accuracy means if we as a secondary build try to close support our DD"s like we used to we just get beaten down like never before.  ( obviously using islands best we can to mitigate incoming etc) 

 

Secondary building costs too much and  we have to give up far too much survivability for those skills. Even my Massa and Georgia builds - I used to play secondary - heck i ran massa ifhe secondary to good effect before the ifhe nerf 

Now i run a survival / deadeye build on massa/georgia/ohio and just let the shorter range secondary's alone. Again - Very Sad.  Those 3 premium USN BB's need extended secondary range - probably 12.0 km, and Secondary skills just plain need more love. They just simply cost too much for what we get in performance today. The trade off of secondary's for survival skills is currently a no brainer. Secondary builds are now unsatisfying and short in most matches. 

A little quality of life improvements might be if the German BB's gained similar immunity to USN BB's from repair party. During The Action time of repair party, the ship is immune to new fires or floods. With the slot 1 coal module from the armory and picking the right skills, the USN can have 30.8 sec of immunity. The Germans max is  25.4

I think the best thing WG should consider is to bake in some Survival buffs to the secondary skills themselves something like these:

 

- Add 5-10% extra fire resistance to long range secondary's skill 

- Add 5-10% damage control and repair party cool down buff to Improved secondary battery aiming skill <<< This skill is FAR too expensive as is. 

Top Grade gunner for 4 points is just a No Go skill. and I don't know how they fix it - The secondary range limit to trigger it is so rarely hit that this is a terrible use of skill points. ANY of the survival skills are far better for a BB trying to more closely support his/her team.  Emergency repair expert or Fire prevention will keep you alive a good while longer. Adrenalin rush will give Far more bang for your offensive buck - at 50% health ALL of your secondary's, AA and main guns fire 10% quicker.

Hopefully we see some meaningful changes to several skills soon,  & perhaps consider setting your calendar - Feb 16th - you may want to zero out captains skills especially on ships you do not play much before the next update & the free respecs are gone - I suspect if we see much for Skill changes, WG will give us more free respecs, but always best to play it safe 

They could just nerf fire down to two like floods and use the same timer as floods. And with the fire reduction skill, that means you can only start one fire on any ship. 

Yep, that should do it. 

Thank me later.

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Great replies and no argument as to Lutjens' worth to a DD/CL/CV, a 200hit or 3-Spot-300HP/Lvl ability etc is quite beneficial to stealthy, fast-firing lowHP botes and makes him a solid Capt. for them. Truth is I don't find skulking/kiting much fun and like to support DD's/CL's in a real way (drawing fire, Zone Control, giving them an exit etc.) and brawl in my BB's (yes, later in the match). Nearly to exclusion, BB's are the botes I like playing most (admittedly very limited) and 3 spots and/or 200 Main-bat hits are a tall order for KM BB's, the class I bought him for. The meta has essentially turned Heavy Tanks into Arty. I also agree that skill-massaging is likely to come (hopefully not just a Deadeye nerf) consequently most of my Cpts. remain undefined and I'm hopeful WG brings the fun back to big steel.

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