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Admiral_Kartoffel

Dazzle in COOP

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I'm going to be doing more testing tomorrow to be certain, but it seems the bots know when you have the skill AND how long the buff lasts.
Tonight the surface bots didn't even want to target me, let alone shoot at me for the first 15 seconds after being detected in my FR/EU DD's while running with Dazzle.

Took it off and ran the same boat in similar fashion, just like normal, everything shooting at me.
 





  

Edited by Admiral_Kartoffel

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IMHO, if what you say is really true, then I say the skill is absolutely fantastic for Coop... lol. :Smile_trollface:

If the bots actually refuse to even target you for 15 seconds, then imagine what you can do during that period of total immunity. Just waltz up to a nearest bot and torp them? I think so, lel. :Smile_trollface:

DD's supreme reign of the Coop mode continues, lul. :Smile_trollface:

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Ah, that explains it. I have been seeing that in co-op all week. 

Seems players already beat you to it. I have seen up to 4 DDs doing exactly that. 

But it is actually going to hurt them.

Because, if that skill is technically broken on bots, WG will patch and fix it before you can use it for practical use. 

And by posting it here, you just made every DD player go: "Aw bugger! You had to post it in forums! Now WG knows! way to suck the fun away for DDs dude!"

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5 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

Ah, that explains it. I have been seeing that in co-op all week. 

Seems players already beat you to it. I have seen up to 4 DDs doing exactly that. 

But it is actually going to hurt them.

Because, if that skill is technically broken on bots, WG will patch and fix it before you can use it for practical use. 

And by posting it here, you just made every DD player go: "Aw bugger! You had to post it in forums! Now WG knows! way to suck the fun away for DDs dude!"

Not really. It's not like DD's couldn't dominate in Coop before the skill was introduced.

Even if WG fixes it, the skill will still help to keep DD's stay alive during the 15 seconds window, and make their life easier when bum rushing a BB to torp it.

Edited by Blorgh2017

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16 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

Not really. It's not like DD's couldn't dominate in Coop before the skill was introduced.

Even if WG fixes it, the skill will still help to keep DD's stay alive during the 15 seconds window, and make their life easier when bum rushing a BB to torp it.

I am not sure a DD should bum rush. Maybe the correct term is forward rush? 

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Another broken commander skill. You get no timer notification to let you know how long before the effect goes away. There should be an audio sound when the effect ends.

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19 minutes ago, Tpaktop2_1 said:

Another broken commander skill. You get no timer notification to let you know how long before the effect goes away. There should be an audio sound when the effect ends.

If you're not either out of detection range or behind cover long before 15 seconds are up, chances are you're not using it right. If you're in a French or Russian destroyer and you're open-water gunboating at full throttle, you can potentially use your gun reload - how many salvoes can you put out in 15 seconds? - or speed boost counter to time it.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu
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So after running a few more experiments, it is likely observer bias. If multiple ships are detected, the bots may just be choosing to shoot at a different ship.
Though I still feel the bots know when the skill is active. Which means somewhere there are numbers that could be utilized to generate an indicator for the players.

As mentioned previously though, I try to use my other running timers in game to give me an idea of how long I have to dance in my glass slippers. :cap_rambo:

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That dispersion effect looks much bigger than it really is.  

The only think it's going to really protect from is long-range fire by opportunistic BBs and CAs.   The DD or CL or whatever that's inside 12km isn't going to notice it enough to matter.   The only way it makes a difference in Co-op is if the increased dispersion is somehow triggering part of the bots' target-priority algorithm and thus causing them to target someone else.  

It's a typical Wargaming spreadsheet effect -- it shows up over 1000s of battles, but in any one battle, or especially on any one volley, it's just not going to make a significant or noticeable difference.  

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7 hours ago, Tpaktop2_1 said:

Another broken commander skill. You get no timer notification to let you know how long before the effect goes away. There should be an audio sound when the effect ends.

The rework is full of effects and the player has absolutely no notification if it's in effect or not.

Dead Eye?

Dazzle?

Top Grade Gunner?

Etc.

No idea if they are on or not.  That's a puzzle for the player to figure out I guess, which is stupid.

 

Games for decades have provided players notification if a state, temporary or otherwise, is on or not.  This is nothing new, for example MMORPGs have been doing this since the early 2000s.

 

A second possibility is the devs literally had no idea that players need to know what buffs, debuffs, etc. are going on with their ship at any given time.

 

A third possibility was this Rebork had been so hastily put together and so little thought put into it, that the idea of a player knowing what buffs, debuffs are in effect on their ship never came to mind.

----

As for Dazzle in the confines of PVE, I got rid of it.  Useless skill.  Another trash skill in a Skill Rebork full of Useless Skills.  You're going to get hit anyways.  Sigma overrides it anyways because Sigma determines the regularity of shells going towards the center.  Dazzle worsens the dispersion size by 20% for so many seconds, but that doesn't matter with High Sigma attacks, i.e. DD guns, Cruiser Guns, High Sigma Battleships.

Let's say some ship is attacking your Dazzle-on DD.  It's attack is normally, say, 100m at that range.  Dazzle worsens that to 120m.

Yay?

No.  Because Sigma doesn't care.  If the attacker is a High Sigma ship then the shells are still naturally going to go towards the center.

 

You already see this in Battleships.  Battleships have easily, by far the worst Dispersion Sizes in the game.  Yet there are High Sigma BBs with 1.9, 2.0, even 2.1 (Yamato), and they don't care.  Provided the aim was good, there's always a reasonable chance shots will get towards the center.

 

Lastly, if you're spotted and Dazzle is on while you do your Torpedo Rush, Dazzle is going to be useless.  At the ranges a DD is going to be spotted, which is super close for your Torp Rush, nothing is going to miss you.  Dazzle is not a Sci Fi shield that absorbs or deflects shots away from the ship.

Let's say I'm in a USN DD doing a Torp Rush.  I get spotted at 5.8 or 5.9km, my Stealth Build Surface Detection Range.  At that range, nothing is going to miss me.  NOTHING.  Not even a Battleship, unless RNG has shone a blessed light on me to save my ship.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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