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digger52

WG what have you done to my Atago

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Well as someone who has played since closed beta, and my Atago was one of the first premiums I owned ( now have over 840 random matches in it), it used to be my tier 8 go to ship for fun and enjoyment. You could hold down a flank by kiting and slealth torping, you could take IEHE without penalty and I use my Zao 19 point Yamamoto captain in it.

Since this latest patch ive been one shotted through the bow from a Warspite at 17 km, ive been pulled into 60% of battles where its tier 10 where my life expectancy is measured in seconds unless I sit behind an island). Previosly the Atago was my best performer pulled into the higher tiers yet now Im being close to 1 shotted by thunderers with HE from the next continent. I used to push with DDs to support them as it had good stealth but can no longer use IEHE on shooting DDs as i lose 8 points off my cammo. rating,also  turn at all to fire torps and boom.

So firstly is anyone having success ( fun win or lose) with this ship post patch if so care to share your ship and commander build as im ready to park it in port permanently. Maybe im doing something wrong but ive tried most combinations of equipment and capt skills.

 

As an aside it looks like the Zao has suffered the same fate, just saw a red Zao one shotted by one of our bbs from 15 km away just after the zao fired his first salvo ,it is becoming farcical. 

I also wonder if there are hidden stats that have been changed intentionally or unintentionally because the Atago now feels sluggish, the turret rotation seems weird and gun accuracy seems all over the place.

 

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You don't lose any stealth from taking IFHE.  You lose stealth from taking the new heavy HE and SAP skill.  They are two different things.

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Terminologywise you are correct but I dont have access to IEHE anymore in this ship so I would have to take heavy HE which does lose the concealment.

So a ship that used to hit DDs hard, now has to forgo concealment to not even have the same impact, which idiot thought that through.

My experience post patch tells me that the only cruisers worth their salt ( that I have played) are heavy cruisers eg Pritz Eugen, Hindenberg, Tier 9 and 10 Russian heavy cruisers and Alaska ,Peuto Rico.

At lower tiers CAs with smoke still doing well as long as you arent uptiered in to russian radar.

Still would love to hear from a fellow Atago veteran.

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I'm still a novice;  I have an Atago, and I agree with all you said. I've added STEERING GEARS MOD. 2 and it's a major improvement to the rudder control.

My other Mods: MAIN ARMAMENTS MOD. 1, ENGINE ROOM PROTECTION, AIMING SYSTEMS MOD. 1, DAMAGE CONTROL MOD 2.

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6 minutes ago, digger52 said:

Terminologywise you are correct but I dont have access to IEHE anymore in this ship so I would have to take heavy HE which does lose the concealment.

So a ship that used to hit DDs hard, now has to forgo concealment to not even have the same impact, which idiot thought that through.

My experience post patch tells me that the only cruisers worth their salt ( that I have played) are heavy cruisers eg Pritz Eugen, Hindenberg, Tier 9 and 10 Russian heavy cruisers and Alaska ,Peuto Rico.

At lower tiers CAs with smoke still doing well as long as you arent uptiered in to russian radar.

Still would love to hear from a fellow Atago veteran.

IFHE is still there. But you don't need it on Atago. And it wouldn't do anything for you against DD. What are you even talking about? There's so much wrong with this post I don't even know how to approach it.

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12 minutes ago, digger52 said:

Terminologywise you are correct but I dont have access to IEHE anymore in this ship so I would have to take heavy HE which does lose the concealment.

So a ship that used to hit DDs hard, now has to forgo concealment to not even have the same impact, which idiot thought that through.

My experience post patch tells me that the only cruisers worth their salt ( that I have played) are heavy cruisers eg Pritz Eugen, Hindenberg, Tier 9 and 10 Russian heavy cruisers and Alaska ,Peuto Rico.

At lower tiers CAs with smoke still doing well as long as you arent uptiered in to russian radar.

Still would love to hear from a fellow Atago veteran.

Of course you do.  It's a 4 point skill for cruisers.  I am looking at it right now.

You don't need IFHE on Atago though.  Espcially for DDs. It doesn't cause you to pen anything that you wouldn't pen without it and it would simply cut your fire chance in half, for no reason.

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IFHE is not recommended on the Atago.

LWM's IFHE recommendation thread: 203mm - Don't take IFHE on 203mm armed ships. 

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17 minutes ago, digger52 said:

Terminologywise you are correct but I dont have access to IEHE anymore in this ship so I would have to take heavy HE which does lose the concealment.

Yes you do have access to IFHE, but don't use it. Same with heavy HE, you don't need it.

17 minutes ago, digger52 said:

So a ship that used to hit DDs hard, now has to forgo concealment to not even have the same impact, which idiot thought that through.

Uh no. You have exactly the same HE impact as before, the skill would give you more at the cost of concealment. It's called balance. But don't take the skill and nothing changes.

17 minutes ago, digger52 said:

My experience post patch tells me that the only cruisers worth their salt ( that I have played) are heavy cruisers eg Pritz Eugen, Hindenberg, Tier 9 and 10 Russian heavy cruisers and Alaska ,Peuto Rico.

Except it's those cruisers that got whacked this patch with the removal of fire prevention reducing their survivability.

17 minutes ago, digger52 said:

At lower tiers CAs with smoke still doing well as long as you arent uptiered in to russian radar.

Still would love to hear from a fellow Atago veteran.

Atago is actually one of the few ships that is relatively unchanged by the patch, all of the things you complained about didn't change with the patch. Just because you got deleted by a BB doesn't mean the Atago was nerfed, it means you screwed up. The only thing that might have changed is the turret rotation with the EM change.

Question: Did you change your captain skills after the patch? Because if you're using the ones WG defaulted you to chances are they're not the best ones and might be causing the problems you're talking about. Definitely respec the captain if you haven't.

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Of all the premiums that I have actually paid money for, Atago is the only one I regret. She is a sweet, sleek ship that handles very well. But she is just not as competitive as she used to be. The CV rework really screwed her over. No AA to speak of and tier VIII cvs are drawn to her like flies on s**t.

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You know, reading this....

I just wanna slap someone really hard, I just do...and I'll leave it at that

- Shrayes

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I lost my appetite to play this game with any real conviction anymore with this latest captain's skills rework.

I can go about my days freely now.... :Smile_trollface:

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Love the charming responses , I wonder why I bother. I am comparing my performance pre and post patch. I have played with the skills and equipment.

So Atago 845 battles, 56% win rate average damage 45,500 ( up to the patch I aways ran IEHE whether you needed it or not so lets put that aside with my Yamamoto captain )

Atago B( got it a couple of years ago in a black friday box) 197 battles damage 48,900 ( used a different captain with diffeent skills so no IEHE)

ARP Takao got it for free early in the games histroy sold it 20 battles 60% win rate 40,000 ave damage

ARP Maya 41 battles 61% win rate 45,500 damage 

 

Now since the patch im lucky to be getting 30% win rate, 25,000 average damage, so either

1/ The Meta has changed so dramatically that Im playing my Atago variants all wrong

2/ There is something wrong with the mix of skills and equipment im using though I have experimented with most

3/ The changes have ruined the ships ability to do the role it used to do so ill have to sit with the main fleet even if they leming as it cant hold a flank anymore ie be very conservative

4/ As ive said the ship feels different, has there been other changes?

NOW THANK YOU FOR THE FEW OF YOU THAT GAVE A HELPFUL RESPONSE EG SNIPE, the rest sound like the normal toxic chat in randoms. Do you have an Atago or not that is what I asked.

 

By the way you are correct IEHE is there , I missed it under the "do not enter sign", that will teach me. I was thrown by heavy HE, I appologize.

 

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1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

Except it's those cruisers that got whacked this patch with the removal of fire prevention reducing their survivability.

AJTP, I don't see the loss of FP as affecting the Atago much at all.  Her survivability is far more impacted by the Deadeye BBs firing AP volleys at her and blapping the snot out of her, on top of the fact that the Atago doesn't have the much main gun range in the first place (i.e. under 16 km).  The loss of FP and BoS is more of an issue for super cruisers than regular heavy cruisers like the Atago.

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40 minutes ago, digger52 said:

Love the charming responses , I wonder why I bother. I am comparing my performance pre and post patch. I have played with the skills and equipment.

So Atago 845 battles, 56% win rate average damage 45,500 ( up to the patch I aways ran IEHE whether you needed it or not so lets put that aside with my Yamamoto captain )

Atago B( got it a couple of years ago in a black friday box) 197 battles damage 48,900 ( used a different captain with diffeent skills so no IEHE)

ARP Takao got it for free early in the games histroy sold it 20 battles 60% win rate 40,000 ave damage

ARP Maya 41 battles 61% win rate 45,500 damage 

 

Now since the patch im lucky to be getting 30% win rate, 25,000 average damage, so either

1/ The Meta has changed so dramatically that Im playing my Atago variants all wrong

2/ There is something wrong with the mix of skills and equipment im using though I have experimented with most

3/ The changes have ruined the ships ability to do the role it used to do so ill have to sit with the main fleet even if they leming as it cant hold a flank anymore ie be very conservative

4/ As ive said the ship feels different, has there been other changes?

NOW THANK YOU FOR THE FEW OF YOU THAT GAVE A HELPFUL RESPONSE EG SNIPE, the rest sound like the normal toxic chat in randoms. Do you have an Atago or not that is what I asked.

 

By the way you are correct IEHE is there , I missed it under the "do not enter sign", that will teach me. I was thrown by heavy HE, I appologize.

 

I have an Atago.   It's the ARP version (because free), but it's the same ship. Atago is one of the ships that wasn't actually nerfed in the rework.  It's really unchanged.

The IFHE skill has the cross through it, because the game doesn't recommend using IFHE on Aatago and it is correct about it.  It not only doesn't help Atago, it hinders it.  If you have been using it, you have actually been doing less damage than you would without it because it doesn't help Atago, at all.  All it does for that ship, is reduce the chance of setting a fire.

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3 minutes ago, Crucis said:

AJTP, I don't see the loss of FP as affecting the Atago much at all.  Her survivability is far more impacted by the Deadeye BBs firing AP volleys at her and blapping the snot out of her, on top of the fact that the Atago doesn't have the much main gun range in the first place (i.e. under 16 km).  The loss of FP and BoS is more of an issue for super cruisers than regular heavy cruisers like the Atago.

That's what I was referring too. OP said he thought the supercruisers were the only worthwhile ships now, and I pointed out that while Atago was relatively unchanged the supercruisers got whacked hard this patch. I guess you could (previously) run FP on Atago, but probably were better skills to take. As you said, Deadeye is probably the worst thing Atago is dealing with ATM, that and she's a kiting ship but no one is pushing right now.

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2 hours ago, digger52 said:

Well as someone who has played since closed beta, and my Atago was one of the first premiums I owned ( now have over 840 random matches in it), it used to be my tier 8 go to ship for fun and enjoyment. You could hold down a flank by kiting and slealth torping, you could take IEHE without penalty and I use my Zao 19 point Yamamoto captain in it.

Since this latest patch ive been one shotted through the bow from a Warspite at 17 km, ive been pulled into 60% of battles where its tier 10 where my life expectancy is measured in seconds unless I sit behind an island). Previosly the Atago was my best performer pulled into the higher tiers yet now Im being close to 1 shotted by thunderers with HE from the next continent. I used to push with DDs to support them as it had good stealth but can no longer use IEHE on shooting DDs as i lose 8 points off my cammo. rating,also  turn at all to fire torps and boom.

So firstly is anyone having success ( fun win or lose) with this ship post patch if so care to share your ship and commander build as im ready to park it in port permanently. Maybe im doing something wrong but ive tried most combinations of equipment and capt skills.

 

As an aside it looks like the Zao has suffered the same fate, just saw a red Zao one shotted by one of our bbs from 15 km away just after the zao fired his first salvo ,it is becoming farcical. 

I also wonder if there are hidden stats that have been changed intentionally or unintentionally because the Atago now feels sluggish, the turret rotation seems weird and gun accuracy seems all over the place.

 

Can you post the skills you are using and upgrades to equipment? I will compare to mine tomorrow. I have all the Atago sisters and Zao. I might be able to see what happened based on the 15km hit. But my question about that hit would be did you fire your guns before that hit and was your gun bloom up at the time? Next question is gun range with and without spotter? Next is concealment range surface/air and whether a plane from a CV was near? Did incoming fire skill activate? 

Please post a screenshot carefully that blots out sensitive information so that I can see it here so I can analyze it.

Thanks

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well ive been playing the supercruisers and doing all right with them, go figure. As you say it may well be deadeye as mentioned above with the gun range of the Atago, its not a ship like the US cruisers or Bayard where you can use you gun arcs to compensate. I think BB drivers eyes must light up now when they see an Atago engaged in a firefight 18 km away, that is the situation for example when a Warspite hit me at his maximum range and boom, it hurts when its a tier 6.Glad to hear one of the posters say that was all my fault sigh.

If its just the new meta then as I say ill just have to support conservatively the main fleet even if leaves a flank unguarded. I used to have fun in the ship, win or lose, not any more, its like being a seal in a school of sharks.

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steel rain,

here is my captain skills ( Yamamoto 19 points)

Level1 grease the gears ( yamamoto gets a boost from this skill)

level 1 incoming fire alert

level 2 pyrotechnician

level 3 superintendent

level 4 top grade gunner

level 4 outnumbered

level 4 concealment

These are the skills ive finally settled on in the last 24 hours as i fgure if my survival likelyhood is diminished then I want to hit targets as much as I can.

equipment

slot 1 magazine mod 1

slot2 hydro search mod 1 ( I still want to be able to support dds when given the chance)

slot 3 Aiming systems mod 1

slot 4 steering gears mod 1

slot 5 concealment mod 1

With regard to extending range using a spotter, I only like using a spotter in ships like HMAS Perth so when I smoke at 8 knots I can farm damage at extended range while travelling slowly. It is something worth trying I guess ill give it some thought.

By taking a much more conservative approach in the last 24 hours at least I have improved my damage and win rate back to close to pre patch but cant say its an enjoyable experience.

 

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4 hours ago, Compassghost said:

IFHE is not recommended on the Atago.

LWM's IFHE recommendation thread: 203mm - Don't take IFHE on 203mm armed ships. 

Not only did she say, "Don't take IFHE on 203mm armed ships"...I do believe she followed it up w/...

"Stop it. Get some help"/"Don't make me hurt you"/"..."/& last (but certainly not least)..."Where did I leave my Chain-Axe"

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos
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5 hours ago, Snipe_DD850 said:

I'm still a novice;  I have an Atago, and I agree with all you said. I've added STEERING GEARS MOD. 2 and it's a major improvement to the rudder control.

My other Mods: MAIN ARMAMENTS MOD. 1, ENGINE ROOM PROTECTION, AIMING SYSTEMS MOD. 1, DAMAGE CONTROL MOD 2.

You will find that the fires are more of a problem than the rudder now.

Back to Damage Control Two you go. The rudder is nice when turning broadside to anything today (Especially BB's in the next ocean over) gets you detonated.

Atagos have had their day in the game, I still run into them as a DD occasionally and fight them when I need to. I just as soon get them detected long enough to be deleted before I am caught myself and continue on into the enemy territory hunting their BB's and carrier etc. Deep strike. Against all that I still like the Atago, I might own one of those eventually. However the Japanese National Ships have their own issues, particularly the IJN destroyers. Kitikaze is the next one I am working on.

Edited by xHeavy

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This post is really laughable, couldnt expect a guy to play over 800 matches without knowing whats the base pen of atago. I'm gonna answer in chronological order.

 

First, dont take IFHE on Atago. It has been widely said before, you have 34mm of base HE pen, which is enough to pen any DD (exception on armored ones, such as Khaba or Paolo), can pen UK and FR BBs deck, and all the bows and sterns of t10 BBs, and below. You pen most of cruisers, and for the ones you couldnt pen IFHE wont change anything (Atago IFHE is only 42mm of pen)

Then for your Warspite example, you have a 25mm of bow, which means any BB with a caliber >380mm can froncit you, and in rare circonstances, devstrike you. This is why you shouldnt nose-in with Atago, but instead give sharp angle to lead enemy shells to your 27mm sections (your armored belt). This will help you getting less damage.

Yes you gonna get a lot of t10 MM, even if it has been improved, so you have to be really careful in those MM, not saying it's impossible to do something. Sadly with the actual meta you still kinda suffer if you struggle in Atago vs t10 generally, so even before patch.

I can show you good games in CBs, not really played Atago recently in randoms.

In skills you can take Turret rotation and/or Last stand (since your engines are rudder can [edited] up quickly), then I'd say Priority Target if you get deleted quick, this should helps you knowing who could be shooting at you and when to disengage, then Adrenaline Rush and finally Concealment expert. Then you can take Superitendent, and you still have 8 points (max) left. 

Perfomance-wise yes Zao is not the top pick t10 and is in fact below average, still you can have a lot of fun if enemy allows you too. Be sure you have range mod. If the "red" zao get oneshotted thats surely because he played badly, and thats all.

I have only been playing Atago for one year and a half (roughly), and for me manoeuvrability is the same (excellent), same thing for dispersion (perfect). Turret rotation speed is a bit below average but it's correct if you take the right skill. You have 35% hitrate for the ship which is correct, but could be better. If you feel the dispersion to be weird, thats probably your aiming.

 

To conclude, even pre and post patch you have done errors such in build, and positioning I'd assume, and you lacked of data for your most played ship. Follow the tips given in this topic by the players, try different builds if you need (you still have free respec, feel free to test any skill that seems nice for you EXCEPT IFHE), and that should be ok.

GL for rest,

 

Note this is my NA acc, I do have Atago on my EU acc.

Edited by OhMonCroissant
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4 hours ago, digger52 said:

Love the charming responses , I wonder why I bother. I am comparing my performance pre and post patch. I have played with the skills and equipment.

So Atago 845 battles, 56% win rate average damage 45,500 ( up to the patch I aways ran IEHE whether you needed it or not so lets put that aside with my Yamamoto captain )

Atago B( got it a couple of years ago in a black friday box) 197 battles damage 48,900 ( used a different captain with diffeent skills so no IEHE)

ARP Takao got it for free early in the games histroy sold it 20 battles 60% win rate 40,000 ave damage

ARP Maya 41 battles 61% win rate 45,500 damage 

 

Now since the patch im lucky to be getting 30% win rate, 25,000 average damage, so either

1/ The Meta has changed so dramatically that Im playing my Atago variants all wrong

2/ There is something wrong with the mix of skills and equipment im using though I have experimented with most

3/ The changes have ruined the ships ability to do the role it used to do so ill have to sit with the main fleet even if they leming as it cant hold a flank anymore ie be very conservative

4/ As ive said the ship feels different, has there been other changes?

NOW THANK YOU FOR THE FEW OF YOU THAT GAVE A HELPFUL RESPONSE EG SNIPE, the rest sound like the normal toxic chat in randoms. Do you have an Atago or not that is what I asked.

 

By the way you are correct IEHE is there , I missed it under the "do not enter sign", that will teach me. I was thrown by heavy HE, I appologize.

 

To be fair, you seemed to be getting things a little messed up in your explanation and tbh if your HE naturally pens over the 32mm mark, then in general you don't really need to take IFHE.

I get you did better in Atago before the Captain change, but if you read your post it seems to be blaming your own choice of Captain skills (and the fact you kind of say you don't have the option of IFHE - again please don't take it on Atago).

 

If you were talking about one of the many premium ships that have 152mm guns who really were screwed with the IFHE changes form +30% to +25% pen, then I could understand. :Smile_honoring:

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well thats it so many agressive, nasty comments on something that is a hobby. 

 

See you all later but i'll leave with this conversation with one last point,

I have really enjoyed this game since closed beta as my family served and died fighting for the UK in WW2. My grandfather was on HMS Barnham, suggest you look at her last moments video, my father was on the russian and atlantic convoys, I have his Atlantic Star in my top drawer, my uncle fought and died in the Battle of Britian, this is just an "expletive" game and I dont need this toxidity, Ill keep playing but this is my last post, so much nastyiness.

 

Whether you all like it or not post patch fighting in a light cruiser in the higher tiers is no longer a pleasurable experience. 

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29 minutes ago, digger52 said:

Whether you all like it or not post patch fighting in a light cruiser in the higher tiers is no longer a pleasurable experience. 

whilst the meta and gameplay may have changed there have been no significant enough changes to a ship like atago to ruin her. Certainly nothing like how the IFHE changes hit Atlanta as @_WaveRider_ eluded to

 

29 minutes ago, digger52 said:

well thats it so many agressive, nasty comments on something that is a hobby. 

you'll find that complaining without a basic understanding of what you're complaining about provokes that. You're basically a living example of what a lot of the playerbase hates if you do that. At least educate yourself on the base pen of atago and whether or not she needs IFHE.

Edited by SpreadsheetSaysJustDodge
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Classic guy not being able to admit he made bad choices in game, get a lot of tips and critics yet cries about them. Hope if he keep playing at least he'll remove his IFHE :')

Guess topic has now no utility, all the answers have been given -in a large way they are useful to any player willing to improve and correct his mistakes - by the people that responded here. 

 

Bonus point for putting historical talking in an arcade game.

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