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reza577

Somers or Marcue DD?

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I want to play an OP DD for ranked, at the moment i have the german DD @ T10 and the Gearing... neither are OP enough for ranked.

 

Which one of the above ships you guys recommend? (Somers or Marcue)

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Neither. Smaland would be the best premium option at T10.

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6 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

Neither. Smaland would be the best premium option at T10.

i wont be having 2mill free exp until the year 2033

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12 minutes ago, reza577 said:

i wont be having 2mill free exp until the year 2033

You know Somers is Steel, not coal, right?  Just making sure.

I think I am about to snag Somers as well but it's not really considered super "OP".  There are some differences but it's basically just a US Shima, give or take.

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Or pay the 330 dollars like I did to convert the 2 million plus to FXP to get the smaland. Its a good ship but has limitations.

The somers is a good ship. However the French... their DD's are some of the FASTEST in game. You wont believe what it takes to put a dynamic sight zoomed in against a fast french DD at 50knots 10km away and closing. Most of the time you are not used to that and fail to hit. If the frenchie is lucky you are sunk. You can learn to put the sights just so on the number and the rounds will get there. If the human driving that french fast sports car failed to protect it's engine and rudder, it will be dead in the water sunk summarily by all on your team who are aware thats the moment to drop whatever you are doing and sink it fast.

If you consider Ranked and some of the fastest ships probably will reach YOUR NEAREST base before you reach it. IF your team is not aware of that potential in the very beginning and know what cruisers have radar and how far etc... That french DD is going to slaughter half of your team before being sunk. At that point the game is won already by them. As long you stay aware of what ships go how fast and how long (Boost etc) you will get to knowing what is possible in any game map world. IF you have a really fast ship and know what you need to do when you do arrive then victory is yours.

My weakness is Georgias. 36 knot battleships US. That is just as fast as some of my US Destroyers. I try to wake up when a Georgia or three is in the game on the enemy team. They can boost across the map and show up at the worst possible time while you are in flagrante delicto. Literally caught red handed by a really BIG strong FAST ship fixing to sink you quick.

There are times being a truly fast ship is awesome. Especially when you realize that noone can catch you on the map as you grab bases until 1000 points. However... don't get too settled into just yet. People have a way of networking as a defense to corner you and your fast boat. Then you will have to fight knowing you aint got victory anymore.

Good luck to you.

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Somers is a boat I regret not getting. Frenchie DDs are fun but not my playstyle.

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We had a somers run wild in ranked earlier today.

Took four of us to sink him. He was dividing fire among the three torp sets on his ship so that there was usually at least a set of torps ready to engage anyone that popped up in any direction. A cruiser blapped him having waited for him to come around a island thinking he is escaping yet again.

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Somers plays similarly to Shimakaze. Better torps and US smoke but worse gun firepower. In a meta that favors killing DDs, Somers is unreliable at best due to the nature of torps. It doesn't help that Somers has so little AA that she practically heals planes. Overall she is easy to use, but there are far better ships for carrying ranked. 

Marceau is a French gunboat DD, basically a Kleber with half the guns of Colbert. She is better farming cruisers and BBs with her guns as she struggles to engage DDs due to her high concealment. She has adequate AA for average and worse CVs, but not even DFAA will save her from competent CVs. A better option for ranked, but demands more from the player to be successful.

If you want an OP DD for ranked, Daring is a good tech tree DD. Smaland is still the best DD overall as she counters almost all other DDs. 

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1 hour ago, Compassghost said:

Neither. Smaland would be the best premium option at T10.

23 minutes ago, Your_SAT_Score said:

Smaland is still the best DD overall as she counters almost all other DDs. 

These are opinions.

Mine is that it’s extremely unlikely I’d ever spend 2 million fxp on a ship, and I sure as hell wouldn’t waste it on a destroyer with no smoke.

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I have been running Smaland pretty much nonstop as a DD main farming Silver, but I've done Marceau for a few games as well and enjoyed it. Matchmaking can make your life hard, though, if the reds have a CV and most of their destroyers are stealthier than you. And just about every destroyer is stealthier than you. Still, she puts out hellacious firepower in close-range fights, and she has the speed and tankiness to force and win most of those fights as long as you can avoid getting 1 v 2'd by surprise.

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5 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

These are opinions. 

Mine is that it’s extremely unlikely I’d ever spend 2 million fxp on a ship, and I sure as hell wouldn’t waste it on a destroyer with no smoke. 

 

This is statistically supported fact, per the T10 Ranked Battles Leaderboard. It has the highest win rate of any ship currently in T10 ranked, and leads the next closest destroyer by 1.5%.

image.thumb.png.ced1ea507bb746ab09bff955f322fae5.png

 

Smaland doesn't need smoke. It kills the smoke destroyer when it smokes and then wears the smoke of its dead victims as camouflage. Being spotted in a Smaland is a death sentence for the other destroyer spotting you.

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1 hour ago, Compassghost said:

Smaland doesn't need smoke. It kills the smoke destroyer when it smokes and then wears the smoke of its dead victims as camouflage. Being spotted in a Smaland is a death sentence for the other destroyer spotting you.

If another destroyer were stupid enough to let that happen in the first place?

You also apparently failed to understand what I said; I didn't say it was bad; I said I would never WASTE 2 million fxp on it.

My experience in game has been that a destroyer that can be seen is a dead deastroyer.

I have ZERO faith in smokeless destroyers. To me they are nothing more than dead men walking.

 

Edited by Estimated_Prophet
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34 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

If another destroyer were stupid enough to let that happen in the first place?

You also apparently failed to understand what I said; I didn't say it was bad; I said I would never WASTE 2 million fxp on it.

My experience in game has been that a destroyer that can be seen is a dead deastroyer.

I have ZERO faith in smokeless destroyers. To me they are nothing more than dead men walking.

Smaland is considered OP because of her combination of high DPM and radar. The enemy DD loses the DPM fight AND struggles to escape due to radar. Very hard to counter, even if you know it's coming. 

Also, just because you have no faith in smokeless DDs doesn't mean they are bad ships. OP asked for powerful ships for ranked and Smaland is a good candidate that happens also to be smokeless. Whether it's worth the 2mill free exp is his decision based on how he spends his resources. Don't let your personal opinions cloud your judgement. 

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1 hour ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

If another destroyer were stupid enough to let that happen in the first place?

You also apparently failed to understand what I said; I didn't say it was bad; I said I would never WASTE 2 million fxp on it.

My experience in game has been that a destroyer that can be seen is a dead destroyer.

I have ZERO faith in smokeless destroyers. To me they are nothing more than dead men walking.

 

Prophet, the problem with your opinions is that you're such a contrarian that your opinions run contrary to the opinions of most other players.  It often seems to me that you refuse to learn to adapt to ships (in this case, smokeless DDs) that other players think are completely playable.   There are many players who play smokeless DDs successfully.  There are plenty of clans in the  current clan brawls using tier 8 French DDs with success.  And in past seasons of tier 10 clan battles many clans were successfully using European DDs, in large part due to the presence of carriers and the strong AA of those Euro DDs. 

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3 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

If another destroyer were stupid enough to let that happen in the first place?

You also apparently failed to understand what I said; I didn't say it was bad; I said I would never WASTE 2 million fxp on it.

My experience in game has been that a destroyer that can be seen is a dead deastroyer.

I have ZERO faith in smokeless destroyers. To me they are nothing more than dead men walking.

 

Prophet- really? after 25k Battles?

I'm all for DD playing safe, doing DD things early game, but eventually you do have to spot, cap, engage the other destroyer...So going into it you know the smalland has advantage with it's 7.5k radar.  DD's cant be considered stupid by doing the things that contribute to win the game.

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I’d also like to point out that this isn’t a unique scenario to NA meta.

In RU and EU, Smaland has a 57% and a 55% WR, respectively, and is also the top ship in their region.

The only region where Smaland is not top by winrate is ASIA, where DDs are the least popular class. In Asia it could only reach #2, where it is half a point behind Bourgogne.

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2 hours ago, Crucis said:

Prophet, the problem with your opinions is that you're such a contrarian that your opinions run contrary to the opinions of most other players.  It often seems to me that you refuse to learn to adapt to ships (in this case, smokeless DDs) that other players think are completely playable.   There are many players who play smokeless DDs successfully. 

I'm still trying to figure them out. (at Skåne currently)

I've figured it out to a reasonable degree in Yugumo, but it's very stealthy. (and of you get spotted at your concealment range by the target, you have a good chance to kill him first if your torps are ready) Same with Fantasque, but it's very fast. (I rarely use smoke in Kiev either)

Skåne is neither, and thus seems tricky to get a handle on. 

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One is a steel ship one is a coal ship why not get both? I have Sommers  but I don't have marceau but I plan on getting her also. Just waiting to see what type of resource the vampire 2  will be 1st or I would already have her. Sommers is a good ship I have not regretted getting her. People talk about how bad her guns are and they definitely are not gun boat reload but you can use them. 4 turrets with 2 guns each you are hurting other dds when you hit them. I have won a few gun fights against a few dds that I thought I should have lost but bowing in or kiting out juking and adjusting speed I always have 4 guns on them and when you can hit them with all 8 it does make them rethink about chasing you.With  CV in the game though you are just a hide and torp boat because once it finds you ,you better have someone close with good aa or your dead.

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6 hours ago, Your_SAT_Score said:

Smaland is considered OP because of her combination of high DPM and radar. The enemy DD loses the DPM fight AND struggles to escape due to radar. Very hard to counter, even if you know it's coming. 

Also, just because you have no faith in smokeless DDs doesn't mean they are bad ships. OP asked for powerful ships for ranked and Smaland is a good candidate that happens also to be smokeless. Whether it's worth the 2mill free exp is his decision based on how he spends his resources. Don't let your personal opinions cloud your judgement. 

 

4 hours ago, Crucis said:

Prophet, the problem with your opinions is that you're such a contrarian that your opinions run contrary to the opinions of most other players.  It often seems to me that you refuse to learn to adapt to ships (in this case, smokeless DDs) that other players think are completely playable.   There are many players who play smokeless DDs successfully.  There are plenty of clans in the  current clan brawls using tier 8 French DDs with success.  And in past seasons of tier 10 clan battles many clans were successfully using European DDs, in large part due to the presence of carriers and the strong AA of those Euro DDs. 

 

3 hours ago, shoy07 said:

Prophet- really? after 25k Battles?

I'm all for DD playing safe, doing DD things early game, but eventually you do have to spot, cap, engage the other destroyer...So going into it you know the smalland has advantage with it's 7.5k radar.  DD's cant be considered stupid by doing the things that contribute to win the game.

The three of you make the same mistake as @Compassghost.

Smaland may be a great DD to some. I still refuse to spend 2mil fxp on it, simply because I don’t see a destroyer without smoke as anything but a target.

That’s nothing more complicated than what I’ve observed in game. Other’s have reached a different conclusion. 

Crucis has the right of it more than the rest.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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10 hours ago, reza577 said:

I want to play an OP DD for ranked, at the moment i have the german DD @ T10 and the Gearing... neither are OP enough for ranked.

 

Which one of the above ships you guys recommend? (Somers or Marcue)

z52 and gearing can do fine in rank. somers and marceau are not "op" it just depends on who is behind the wheel. if you suck then your going to suck no matter what you are using. if you cant make the z52 or gearing work then you going to have issues with somers and marceau.

if you want an "op" dd work your way up to the daring like SAT said. that is a dangerous dd in rank. but again if u cant make the 2 u have work then your just [edited].

 

as for smalland i wish i picked that up. a fast dd, with fast firing guns, 12k torps and radar oh and a heal [edited] that SOB i hate coming up against in rank even when i play marceau or kleber.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

 

 

The three of you make the same mistake as @Compassghost.

Smaland may be a great DD to some. I still refuse to spend 2mil fxp on it, simply because I don’t see a destroyer without smoke as anything but a target.

That’s nothing more complicated than what I’ve observed in game. Other’s have reached a different conclusion. 

Crucis has the right of it more than the rest.

The point of this topic is to help the poster find good ships for ranked, for which you haven't done much to help other than complain you hate smokeless DDs. 

Compass backed up his Smaland statements with data to support Smaland being OP in ranked. I have given my reasons as to why Smaland performs well in ranked and even given a tech tree alternative.

From your comments, I'd think the only reason you posted is to let everyone on the forums know you hate smokeless DDs with a passion. You can give better reasons than that, seeing how the lack of smoke hasn't stopped Smaland from widely being considered the #1 DD for ranked. 

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image.thumb.png.004e742fdef620caeea6e7a9f1184ff5.png

 

The four DDs on the top of the leaderboard in every region are Smaland, Daring, Marceau, and Kleber. Of these, the only ship with smoke is Daring.

 

In NA, smoke destroyers are usually heavily disadvantaged because their base detection range is so low that they end up within the 1.5km exclusion zone known as Smaland's Effective Radar Range, and are caught in a catch-22. If they smoke, the Smaland can radar and shoot through the smoke, while the DD can't see them. If they don't smoke, the Smaland can chase them and shoot them. So death is almost always inevitable in a vSmaland encounter.

image.thumb.png.56e588f6457e5b37d30f22de4e9ce1fe.png

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4 hours ago, Your_SAT_Score said:

From your comments, I'd think the only reason you posted is to let everyone on the forums know you hate smokeless DDs with a passion. You can give better reasons than that, seeing how the lack of smoke hasn't stopped Smaland from widely being considered the #1 DD for ranked. 

Hate them? Certainly not. More power to someone who thinks they’re great. Why shouldn’t I believe what Compass says? 

Feel they are nothing but targets? Most certainly. Even Mogador, cited often as a speed is safety destroyer, doesn’t get a pass.

For five plus years now, ever since getting tired of being sunk by torpedoes all the time in South Carolina, I’ve made it a habit to shoot at ANY visible destroyer that’s inside a reasonable gun range. I don’t find hitting them now to be all that difficult.

You want a reason why I don’t like them? That’s it. To me, any destroyer that can’t break LoS is nothing more than a target.

If anything, perhaps I’m guilty of thinking too highly of the player base.

You see a destroyer, you kill it. Considering how many destroyers I see being ignored, it seems many other players don’t feel as I do.

But then, as @Crucis said, maybe I’m just a contrarian.

@Compassghost, since you seem to be speaking about DD versus DD, I offer this clarification; I’m speaking about attacking destroyers with a cruiser or a battleship.

That’s why I consider spotted destroyers nothing but targets.

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Somers, hands down. Smaland is fun and good in a different way, but if you like a great torp boat that plays like a pre-nerf Shima, than Somers. It is basically my one of three go-to ships if I just want to have fun. It can also hold its own in competition play. 

I only play Smaland for certain mission requirements. I play the Somers everyday. I have no regrets buying her unlike other steel (or coal) ships that just collect mothballs in port. 

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Also, to add to my last reply, the Z-52 at t10 is an OP dd for competition, even if she is not a prem. The great German hydro, more than decent AA, guns, and torps make her a well-rounded choice. 

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