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CV_Jeebies

Cap'n reBork - Shouldn't have to take a lower tier skill...

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I don't find a single 2 point captain skill applicable to the way I'd like to play certain cruisers.  There's literally nothing in the 2 point skill area that'd do me any good.  If a player wants to take 1, 3, and 4 point options, they shouldn't be forced to take a 2pt skill "just cuz".  I know, I know, in mother russia, game plays you, but c'mon, already.

A true "unique build" experience would be .... "here are the skills, here are the costs, choose at will".   Enough gated grindy nonsense already. 

Actually, I have a better fix, Adrenaline rush should be applicable to EVERY ship type, and it should be 2 points.  Part of reBork fixed.

Edited by CV_Jeebies
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15 minutes ago, CV_Jeebies said:

Actually, I have a better fix, Adrenaline rush should be applicable to EVERY ship type, and it should be 2 points.  Part of reBork fixed.

I've been advocating for AR to just be applied to all for free for years as the seal clubbing potential of that skill is huge...but everybody keeps downplaying it's effectiveness as if it isn't that big of a deal.

Against new players (or just casuals that need other basics 1st) the skill is OP as hell.

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AR was absolutely broken as a 2pt skill as it was a mandatory pick for everyone but CVs. Even as a 3pt skill AR is really good, and arguably still a must have for every ship. 

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Most of the skills should be built into the game at this point, but mainly PT, AR, CE and FP.

Give me a good reason why they shouldn't be and why you think there's a serious choice on any of these skills. The current meta is not a valid example, people are doing full DPM builds on cruisers because the deadeye meta has killed all engagements inside of 20km and concealment doesn't matter anymore.

Edited by awildseaking
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If the current skills selection system as it works now forces you to pick a 1 point skill then a 2 point skill then a 3 point skill and finally a 4 point (Bear with me...) thats 10 points gone.

None of the two point skills seem to be that good and hardly any of the one point skills matter. Maybe the maintenance for main ship weapons... The three pointers include skills that were previously two point same with the two points including some skills that were one point. Certain skills have been removed entirely, such as RDF for BB's how else are you going to find that anklebiter DD 6 km from you lobbing torps into you unspotted all day? (Ive learned to lure the DD with me into a box canyon or a corner of map and then force him or her to turn close enough to me in a attempt to escape...) You just corner them now. If you can get them between you and one of your map corners. You will paint em trapped eventually. Then they get detected the hard way.

What I would do if I had 19 skill points (I dont own any 20 or 21's Lord knows WG made offers ranging from 85000 ECXP to 760000 ECXP to get me to move my shima 19 to 20. several times between maps. (I should have taken the first 85K offer... now its a [edited]million plus...)

was to buy the skills in the line 4. 4 of them. Then spend the other 3 points on something that works. If I had two more points I'll have 5 4 point skills.

That would be good for something don't you think?

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I was thinking of a system a few days ago in which there would be tier system. You could pick any skill you wanted and they would become progressively more expensive.

Could help with seal clubbers outspotting newer players who don't even have Concealment in their DDs

Edited by WarStore
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5 hours ago, awildseaking said:

Most of the skills should be built into the game at this point, but mainly PT, AR, CE and FP.

Give me a good reason why they shouldn't be and why you think there's a serious choice on any of these skills. The current meta is not a valid example, people are doing full DPM builds on cruisers because the deadeye meta has killed all engagements inside of 20km and concealment doesn't matter anymore.

PT I certainly agree on. AR shouldn't be built into the game, it doesn't need to be in the game in the first place. CE is good to have as a high-point choice, because not taking it gives you 4 points to use elsewhere. FP is similar, except more so. I use CE on most of my ships, but FP on none of them. I understand it's utility, but my experience with fire leads to me rather having to spend the points elsewhere.

And the current meta is a valid example, because it's the only meta we have.

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4 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

PT I certainly agree on. AR shouldn't be built into the game, it doesn't need to be in the game in the first place. CE is good to have as a high-point choice, because not taking it gives you 4 points to use elsewhere. FP is similar, except more so. I use CE on most of my ships, but FP on none of them. I understand it's utility, but my experience with fire leads to me rather having to spend the points elsewhere.

And the current meta is a valid example, because it's the only meta we have.

But AR is in the game...

I agree it could be removed...but as it is in the game it should be free for everybody...but removed is a viable alternatives (no it's not...I LOVE that skill) [<---You stay out of this OCD me]...

+1 for the "only meta we have"...seems some people just don't get that sometimes.

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5 hours ago, awildseaking said:

Most of the skills should be built into the game at this point, but mainly PT, AR, CE and FP.

Give me a good reason why they shouldn't be and why you think there's a serious choice on any of these skills. The current meta is not a valid example, people are doing full DPM builds on cruisers because the deadeye meta has killed all engagements inside of 20km and concealment doesn't matter anymore.

AR -- overrated for the effect, requires getting your ship beat to hell to make any real difference.

CE -- stops having any effect once the shooting starts, grossly overpriced.  Would rather have a skill that reduces the "bloom" time after firing.   And with Top Grade Gunner, why reduce your base detectable?

FP -- always preferred BOS to this anyway. 

As for the idea of giving these skills to every ship for free... no.   That's the same as just removing them from the game entirely. 

People are doing full DPM builds on cruisers because Wargaming removed all the other choices and just left us with "choices" on how to build for DPM on cruisers.

Edited by KilljoyCutter

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At this point I'd be just as happy if they removed ALL skills ... probably happier ... your skill and the ship you play should determine how battles are fought.

But that doesn't induce churn, frustration and trying to buy a cure.  :Smile_sceptic:

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6 minutes ago, DocWalker said:

At this point I'd be just as happy if they removed ALL skills ... probably happier ... your skill and the ship you play should determine how battles are fought.

But that doesn't induce churn, frustration and trying to buy a cure.  :Smile_sceptic:

I kinda like the idea of being able to tweak ship attributes with the skills. 

 

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2 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

But AR is in the game...

I agree it could be removed...but as it is in the game it should be free for everybody...but removed is a viable alternatives (no it's not...I LOVE that skill) [<---You stay out of this OCD me]...

+1 for the "only meta we have"...seems some people just don't get that sometimes.

TBH, I see the rationale behind upping the cost for AR. It was a no-brainer for 2 pts, at 3 it is less so.

If you zoom out and look at the rework, the idea makes sense. Take the "must have" skills, and make them more of a choice.

I have AR on fewer ships than I did previously, because in many cases, I can (after some consideration) find a better use for the 3 points.

The problem is, once you zoom in, you start seeing specific and localised issues with the execution.

IMO, people get too fixated on the "must have" skills, and got used to not having to make hard choices.

What I think should happen to "must have" skills, is that they should, through some combination of greater cost and/or lesser effects, be brought in line with the other skills. (with any "garbage" skills having their cost reduced and/or effectiveness increased)

 

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9 minutes ago, DocWalker said:

At this point I'd be just as happy if they removed ALL skills ... probably happier ... your skill and the ship you play should determine how battles are fought.

But that doesn't induce churn, frustration and trying to buy a cure.  :Smile_sceptic:

A lot fewer people would play an MMO without skills. Part of what interests many players is "building" their "characters".

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8 hours ago, CV_Jeebies said:

I don't find a single 2 point captain skill applicable to the way I'd like to play certain cruisers.  There's literally nothing in the 2 point skill area that'd do me any good.  If a player wants to take 1, 3, and 4 point options, they shouldn't be forced to take a 2pt skill "just cuz".  I know, I know, in mother russia, game plays you, but c'mon, already.

A true "unique build" experience would be .... "here are the skills, here are the costs, choose at will".   Enough gated grindy nonsense already. 

Actually, I have a better fix, Adrenaline rush should be applicable to EVERY ship type, and it should be 2 points.  Part of reBork fixed.

You don't like more fires, longer consumables, knowing him many people are locked on to you, or more AA? Faster torp reload and spotter plane are a bit niche but I can find a use for the others fairly easy. What cruisers in particular? 

 

I wouldn't mind getting to try out that way of doing capt skills but I feel that for most of my ships I'd still end up with a pretty similar build. It would help informed new players a lot though. 

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35 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

TBH, I see the rationale behind upping the cost for AR. It was a no-brainer for 2 pts, at 3 it is less so.

If you zoom out and look at the rework, the idea makes sense. Take the "must have" skills, and make them more of a choice.

I have AR on fewer ships than I did previously, because in many cases, I can (after some consideration) find a better use for the 3 points.

The problem is, once you zoom in, you start seeing specific and localised issues with the execution.

IMO, people get too fixated on the "must have" skills, and got used to not having to make hard choices.

What I think should happen to "must have" skills, is that they should, through some combination of greater cost and/or lesser effects, be brought in line with the other skills. (with any "garbage" skills having their cost reduced and/or effectiveness increased)

Looking at the ships and captains on PTS, I'm seeing more ships I'd take AR on than before, simply because so many of the other skills have been rendered untenable by smaller buffs, offsetting nerfs, or wonky conditionals.

And that's despite not thinking AR was all that special for 2 points previously. 

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Yea, duct tape a little note paper "Shoot me" and causally stick it onto someone.

And the poor sap wonders wth is going on. I dont think the game really generates a fight closer to having many humans on a ship.

Other thoughts DD sometimes sail short on fuel. The effect on the poor crew is pretty retching.

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1 hour ago, KilljoyCutter said:

AR -- overrated for the effect, requires getting your ship beat to hell to make any real difference.

How many games do you finish with 100% HP? Even if you only take 50% of the damage that's still a 10% DPM BUFF. I can maybe see not taking it on DD's, but on a cruiser or a BB that's going to be losing HP over the match, having those DPM buffs for only 3 points (It was even better when it was only 2) is absolutely worth it. Your HP is a resource that you should be using to influence the game, why wouldn't you want to be rewarded for using that resource?

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14 minutes ago, SirPent13 said:

How many games do you finish with 100% HP? Even if you only take 50% of the damage that's still a 10% DPM BUFF. I can maybe see not taking it on DD's, but on a cruiser or a BB that's going to be losing HP over the match, having those DPM buffs for only 3 points (It was even better when it was only 2) is absolutely worth it. Your HP is a resource that you should be using to influence the game, why wouldn't you want to be rewarded for using that resource?

It's still a skill that does less the better you play. 

It's like the damn "spot torpedoes" missions.  If I'm doing it right, I'm not getting torpedoes spammed at me. 

 

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10 hours ago, CV_Jeebies said:

I don't find a single 2 point captain skill applicable to the way I'd like to play certain cruisers.  There's literally nothing in the 2 point skill area that'd do me any good.  If a player wants to take 1, 3, and 4 point options, they shouldn't be forced to take a 2pt skill "just cuz".  I know, I know, in mother russia, game plays you, but c'mon, already.

A true "unique build" experience would be .... "here are the skills, here are the costs, choose at will".   Enough gated grindy nonsense already. 

Actually, I have a better fix, Adrenaline rush should be applicable to EVERY ship type, and it should be 2 points.  Part of reBork fixed.

Have to agree 2 line has nothing for us.

Plenty on 3 and 4.

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9 hours ago, Your_SAT_Score said:

AR was absolutely broken as a 2pt skill as it was a mandatory pick for everyone but CVs. Even as a 3pt skill AR is really good, and arguably still a must have for every ship. 

The range mod being gone was a terrible idea.  Every BB sits on the 10 line and cruiser cannot get them to move because we cant reach them.

Also with range mod gone everyone there is only 1 module to take.

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24 minutes ago, SirPent13 said:

How many games do you finish with 100% HP? Even if you only take 50% of the damage that's still a 10% DPM BUFF. I can maybe see not taking it on DD's, but on a cruiser or a BB that's going to be losing HP over the match, having those DPM buffs for only 3 points (It was even better when it was only 2) is absolutely worth it. Your HP is a resource that you should be using to influence the game, why wouldn't you want to be rewarded for using that resource?

I have not been taking AR because its .02 per HP loss.  I just dont know how much speed you get.

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1 minute ago, jags_domain said:

I have not been taking AR because its .02 per HP loss.  I just dont know how much speed you get.

It's a .02% buff to all forms of armament per 1% of HP lost. That's a 5% buff at 75% HP, 10% buff at 50%, 15% buff at 25%, and a ~20% buff at 1% HP. It's a built-in boost to the DPM of all your armament and the only tradeoff is losing some HP, which you most likely will be during the match. 

 

14 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

It's still a skill that does less the better you play.

It isn't though. Just because you're taking damage doesn't mean you're playing poorly. By that definition pushing the weak flank is poor gameplay because you'll be losing HP. 

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10 hours ago, CV_Jeebies said:

 Enough gated grindy nonsense already. 

So you want to pick 4 point skills straight out of the start? Maybe build a 5 x 4 points build? Do you realize what you ask is nonsense?

Better ask for more useful skills at L2 if that's your problem.

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7 minutes ago, SirPent13 said:

It's a .02% buff to all forms of armament per 1% of HP lost. That's a 5% buff at 75% HP, 10% buff at 50%, 15% buff at 25%, and a ~20% buff at 1% HP. It's a built-in boost to the DPM of all your armament and the only tradeoff is losing some HP, which you most likely will be during the match. 

 

It isn't though. Just because you're taking damage doesn't mean you're playing poorly. By that definition pushing the weak flank is poor gameplay because you'll be losing HP. 

Did realise it was that much.  Will have try it out tonight.

After all i am half health with the first 5 min these days.

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54 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

It's like the damn "spot torpedoes" missions.  If I'm doing it right, I'm not getting torpedoes spammed at me. 

You're a co-op main, Killjoy; "Engage the enemy more closely" is supposed to be your motto.

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