Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Captain_Rawhide

Cruisers...anything worth taking?

69 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

613
[WOLFG]
Members
1,041 posts

I am having trouble deciding builds on cruisers.  It just seems that the higher point level are filled with circumstantial garbage or tradeoffs that are not worth it.  I would like to know what others think and if they have found a build for CAs or CLs.  Particularly these skills:

Outnumbered:  Too situational.

Top grade gunner:  Too situational.

Heavy HE:  This really pisses me off.  The only decent skill has a 15% nerf to concealment.  So it is only good for Flint, Smolensk and others less than 149mm.  So you cant be using  Flint and  Smolensk, which need it to even be viable , as trainers for a Worcester or Nevsky captain or any other CAs because the downside is way too great.  

If I'm missing something, please let me know...nicely.  Thanks.

To respond to comments:  Ships I'm having trouble with are Nevsky,  Worcester,  DesMoines and Petrovsky

Edited by Captain_Rawhide
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
519
[NSEW]
Members
2,222 posts
11,747 battles

I think with every ship, there are few builds to have fun with.  Without pointing out which it is.  It's  harder for any of us to contribute.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
579
[GOOF]
Members
801 posts
6,673 battles

Cruisers got the short end of the he stick again

  • Cool 2
  • Thanks 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
385
[SALTY]
Beta Testers
659 posts
7,830 battles
49 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

Anything worth taking?

A leave of absence.

  • Cool 9
  • Funny 1
  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
519
[NSEW]
Members
2,222 posts
11,747 battles

I'm tempted to repurchase the Henry IV's upgrade mounts (sold due to dire credit needs at the time) and try the meme builds...while I can.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
6,204 posts
8,073 battles

Top grade gunner looks to be useful on USN radar cruisers. They all have a detection range close to their radar range, and can easily take advantage of the faster reload when radaring other ships.

Edited by GhostSwordsman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
919
Members
2,025 posts
12,473 battles
3 minutes ago, GhostSwordsman said:

Top grade gunner looks to be useful on USN radar cruisers. They all have a detection range close to their radar range, and can easily take advantage of the faster reload when radaring other ships.

But is it really worth 4pt? I mean you don't exactly want to be rushing in with a worceter to get that buff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
158
[WOLF9]
Members
183 posts
2,280 battles
1 hour ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

anything worth taking?

 

21 minutes ago, Kartaugh said:

A leave of absence.

A nap

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,054
[SALVO]
Members
6,536 posts
5,215 battles
1 hour ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

I am having trouble deciding builds on cruisers.  It just seems that the higher point level are filled with circumstantial garbage or tradeoffs that are not worth it.  I would like to know what others think and if they have found a build for CAs or CLs.  Particularly these skills:

Outnumbered:  Too situational.

Top grade gunner:  Too situational.

Heavy HE:  This really pisses me off.  The only decent skill has a 15% nerf to concealment.  So it is only good for Flint, Smolensk and others less than 149mm.  So you cant be using  Flint and  Smolensk, which need it to even be viable , as trainers for a Worcester or Nevsky captain or any other CAs because the downside is way too great.  

If I'm missing something, please let me know...nicely.  Thanks.

To respond to comments:  Ships I'm having trouble with are Nevsky,  Worcester,  DesMoines and Petrovsky

Outnumbered is the kind of skill that you don't want to activate, imo the conditional of this skill needs to be tweaked, as a player you have too little control over it. Big No for me.

Top grade gunner looks interesting to run with either specialized DD hunters or some low tier CAs that like or need to engage at short ranges, I'm using it to good effect in London.

Heavy HE is a big no for me, concealment is golden in my book, you don't mess with concealment. 

Still, it makes an easier task of squeezing in IFHE, Consumables or AA builds. So, I´m cool with having very dubious skills in the tree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
6,204 posts
8,073 battles
Just now, Rouxi said:

But is it really worth 4pt? I mean you don't exactly want to be rushing in with a worceter to get that buff.

I played around with it on my DM in ranked. If anything is inside your detect range, your reload goes down to ~5 seconds. If you equip the radar mod and take the skill that increases it's duration, you get around 54 seconds of radar at ~5 seconds of reload. That's at least 3 extra salvos before radar expires.

Given that USN cruisers generally want to be behind cover for radaring caps, you don't really have to "rush" in to get the skill to activate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25
[VAF]
Members
15 posts
10,480 battles
9 minutes ago, GhostSwordsman said:

I played around with it on my DM in ranked. If anything is inside your detect range, your reload goes down to ~5 seconds. If you equip the radar mod and take the skill that increases it's duration, you get around 54 seconds of radar at ~5 seconds of reload. That's at least 3 extra salvos before radar expires.

Given that USN cruisers generally want to be behind cover for radaring caps, you don't really have to "rush" in to get the skill to activate.

That's VERY counterintuitive.  If you're radaring from behind cover, you can't shoot what you have found.  It's pointless.  And with the DD's now all but invincible, even if you caught one off-guard (HEH), you simply cannot get enough HE into one to kill it, ESPECIALLY with everyone on the map raining down on you while you hunt DD's.  I can kill another cruiser if I'm efficient.  I can even kill a BB if I play it right.  But a destroyer?  Nope, it cannot be done and I have NEVER seen a cruiser single down a DD unless one gets the VERY EXTREMELY ALMOST NEVER HAPPENS detonation.  DD's need to have a citadel or be nerfed so that they can be killed as easily as a cruiser can.

Edited by RoosterNM
  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,054
[SALVO]
Members
6,536 posts
5,215 battles
7 minutes ago, RoosterNM said:

 Nope, it cannot be done and I have NEVER seen a cruiser single down a DD unless one gets the VERY EXTREMELY ALMOST NEVER HAPPENS detonation.  

oh boy... SAP wants a word with you... There are so many situations where you can kill a DD in under 30 seconds, most involve nice RNG and dumbish DDs but it happens frequently enough. Do you even play DDs?

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25
[VAF]
Members
15 posts
10,480 battles

No, I don't play DD's.  I play cruisers.  And no single cruiser, ever, can kill a DD before it can disappear, hide or kill the cruiser first.  I cannot be done.  And I shouldn't have to ONLY play the Italian line or the new Austin to be able to kill a DD.  As I have posted elsewhere, in World War 2 and subsequent fighting, cruisers were THE most survivable vessels in naval battles.  That the game doesn't reflect that simple fact, again, means we aren't playing a naval warfare simulation, but an arcade version of Asteroids with naval ship looking thingies.  If that's the intent from WG, congratulations, you've done it.  If their intent was to simulate naval warfare from the turn of the century to the Cold War, they have DISMALLY failed.  

EDIT:  By the way, I am NOT saying "Gee, WG, you should make cruisers invincible."  But something even pretending to be parity would be nice.  With this patch that have CRITICALLY broken cruiser play through carelessness and lack of attention.  I KNOW they didn't do it on purpose, but the sure got drunk as lords and drove the car over to the Kindergarten playground.

Edited by RoosterNM
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
6,204 posts
8,073 battles
20 minutes ago, RoosterNM said:

That's VERY counterintuitive.  If you're radaring from behind cover, you can't shoot what you have found.  It's pointless.  And with the DD's now all but invincible, even if you caught one off-guard (HEH), you simply cannot get enough HE into one to kill it, ESPECIALLY with everyone on the map raining down on you while you hunt DD's.  I can kill another cruiser if I'm efficient.  I can even kill a BB if I play it right.  But a destroyer?  Nope, it cannot be done and I have NEVER seen a cruiser single down a DD unless one gets the VERY EXTREMELY ALMOST NEVER HAPPENS detonation.  DD's need to have a citadel or be nerfed so that they can be killed as easily as a cruiser can.

There's plenty of cover in and around caps that DM and other USN ships can shoot over but not be shot back at as easily. Or simply provides cover from enemy BB fire while letting you shoot into caps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
323
[DOG]
Members
1,236 posts
12,933 battles

If you look at the cruiser skills overall, it almost looks like WG was trying to push them into brawling, or at least open water kiting.  But those are exactly the things that are going to get them sunk with the new BB skills.  I tried kiting with Yoshino when I was doing the mission that gives you 100 doubloons.  I would do okay for a while, but eventually the BBs would focus me, and one salvo is pretty much all it takes.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25
[VAF]
Members
15 posts
10,480 battles
6 minutes ago, GhostSwordsman said:

There's plenty of cover in and around caps that DM and other USN ships can shoot over but not be shot back at as easily. Or simply provides cover from enemy BB fire while letting you shoot into caps.

No, sir, there is not.  I don't know what you're talking about, but there is NO place safe from stealth BB fire where a US cruiser can fire from, it just ain't there.  I've spent the last four days checking, double checking and getting slaughtered because of it.  This patch is ABSOLUTELY destroying the ability of cruisers to support friendly DD's while hunting enemy DD's.  It simply cannot be done.  Anyone that says differently is selling bridges from the trunk of their car in Brooklyn.

Even the game physics prove this.  To loft ANY shell over an obstacle OUTBOUND, the cruiser has to be back away from the obstacle.  But INCOMING shells are on a downward trajectory after being lofted a distance.  The roaches can get in but they can't get out.  CERTAINLY they cannot get out at the low trajectories needed to hit a DD at 9 KM when the BB is lofting shells in at you from twice or more than that distance.

Edited by RoosterNM
  • Boring 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
250
[RCNW6]
Members
425 posts
33 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Outnumbered is the kind of skill that you don't want to activate, imo the conditional of this skill needs to be tweaked, as a player you have too little control over it. Big No for me.

I don't know about that "skill that you don't want to activate part", for example; Defending a weak flank often finds one with more enemies with standard main battery firing range than allies.

Quote

Top grade gunner looks interesting to run with either specialized DD hunters or some low tier CAs that like or need to engage at short ranges, I'm using it to good effect in London.

Heavy HE is a big no for me, concealment is golden in my book, you don't mess with concealment. 

Top Grade Gunner and Heavy HE and SAP work very well for No Concealment long range HE builds (i.e. Hindenburg, Henri IV)

Here's a good example of such a build on a Henri IV

No Conceal Full Guns: Henri IV - YouTube

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25
[VAF]
Members
15 posts
10,480 battles
1 minute ago, zubalkabir said:

If you look at the cruiser skills overall, it almost looks like WG was trying to push them into brawling, or at least open water kiting.  But those are exactly the things that are going to get them sunk with the new BB skills.  I tried kiting with Yoshino when I was doing the mission that gives you 100 doubloons.  I would do okay for a while, but eventually the BBs would focus me, and one salvo is pretty much all it takes.

EXACTLY.  There is NO safe place for a cruiser to do what a cruiser is meant to do.  We cannot hunt DD's because that means open water (INSTANT, IMMEDIATE and even SUDDEN death).  We cannot fight other cruisers except from ambush unless you like a mouthful of 14 inch and 16 inch shells from low earth orbit.

I don't know why there's resistance to the idea that this patch has broken cruiser play.  It CLEARLY has.  

  • Cool 5
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,054
[SALVO]
Members
6,536 posts
5,215 battles
1 minute ago, WaywardVariable said:

I don't know about that "skill that you don't want to activate part", for example; Defending a weak flank often finds one with more enemies with standard main battery firing range than allies.

I mean, when you activate that skill is because something went wrong or as it wasn't supposed to go. When you take this skill, you are already planning on placing yourself in "sh!t hitting the fan situations", which I'll rather wouldn't. 

5 minutes ago, WaywardVariable said:

Top Grade Gunner and Heavy HE and SAP work very well for No Concealment long range HE builds (i.e. Hindenburg, Henri IV)

Here's a good example of such a build on a Henri IV

No Conceal Full Guns: Henri IV - YouTube

I saw the video, he ends up losing, highlighting the limitations of that type of build. For me, concealment is the most critical aspect of the game. If you have the concealment advantage, you have the initiative. For me this build is a "win harder" situation, it helps you if the match goes your team way and you have reliable team mates, but if you need to carry late match, alone, will find yourself crippled due to your lack of concealment.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
146
[WOLF3]
Members
491 posts
11,679 battles

For me it has not been clear past basic skills. For cruisers i always take priority target, incoming fire, extra consumables, concealment, and reload increase for damage taken. Others I will take are turret rotation, and torpedo speed and increased AP damage depending on the cruisers. The rest I have avoided until there is a better concensus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
385
[SALTY]
Beta Testers
659 posts
7,830 battles
1 hour ago, SeaCat_ said:

 

A nap

A bath in a jacuzzi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,261
[CNO]
[CNO]
Members
6,286 posts
19,177 battles

I've done well with the Worcester...only a few games.  Note sure if it's ability to ark 'em over terrain is the reason...as she was a glass cruiser before the updated and still one today.

I have mine air spec'd so she also tends to fair well protecting the big boys who like to take it easier these days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
613
[WOLFG]
Members
1,041 posts
29 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

I've done well with the Worcester...only a few games.  Note sure if it's ability to ark 'em over terrain is the reason...as she was a glass cruiser before the updated and still one today.

I have mine air spec'd so she also tends to fair well protecting the big boys who like to take it easier these days.

Could you post your build pls?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
966
[X-PN]
Members
1,499 posts
11,906 battles
1 hour ago, Kartaugh said:

A bath in a jacuzzi.

Marshmellows and Graham crackers.... too much camping going on to not have some S'mores.

 

BTW - Tap grade gunner works well on some builds, like the before mentioned "lighthouse" builds with Henri, Hindy, and Venezia....which also works surprisingly well on Nurnberg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,755
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Banned
16,985 posts
3 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

Outnumbered is the kind of skill that you don't want to activate, imo the conditional of this skill needs to be tweaked, as a player you have too little control over it. Big No for me.

Yeah, it's a skill that says "please play poorly".

 

  • Cool 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×