Scenario Battles (Operations) CALL FOR REVOLUTION!

[nolbp]

49 minutes ago, b101uk said:

i would argue the "nerfing" was to improve the flow of the operations and encourage more people to stick with the win condition, rather than have to many people losing sight of the ONLY win condition

 

There is no way i believe that  that wg cares if we win or not or stick to conditions or the flow of the game .

  The reason people in your games  [edited] on the transports is that's where the money is and everyone knows it.

but operations  in its basic form is a team/squad based game where people work together to achieve the objective/so when you have people not caring about the objective  and only there greed and not the team you will have  trans [edited] on a reg basis each of the side task take only one player.

so when you see multiple people going for a side task  or a bb going for a task when they should be defending the convoy there's only 2 reasons   1 they don't care about the team or they are new and don't know how to run the op.

that is why you don't run pugs and expect anything from anyone you wont be disappointed   i recommend creating a div and play it that way you wont have that problem  but you have to have people for that  and wg is working actively to stop that.

if operations are so unprofitable and to hard for them to run why haven't they just eliminated them altogether i have idea about that they will lose a good amount of players and in reality the money they spend on operations in there greed they cant afford that loss on a dying game  we are only in the 1.000s  when there are games in the millions doing things the way they do and doing things to players like that  ie removal of stuff and nerfing stuff  they will stay in the thousands and never be what they could be a game for millions.

 

[b101uk]

@nolbp

ultimately WG knows where ships are when losses and wins happen, it is not hard for WG to look at the analytics between for example in-rotation wins and losses vs. out of rotation wins and losses made up of a single division, and to compare the flow of each and the proportion of the win/loss ratio, they use the same analytics for random battles etc, so they can see the common flow of ships around maps, which can lead them to make subtle map changes like moving and/or resizing or adding/removing of islands in order to perturb advantage, given they want to avoid exact mirror images.

 

likewise the "transports" are where "the money is" if only one ships goes, they deal with them quickly and get into the harbour themselves quickly to rack-up additional damage, if two ships go and share the transport kills its not where "the money is", it is much the same with the CV etc heading out of the harbour, if two or more ships go after that they have functionally reduced the reward relative to just one ship going, but in both cases you have to rack-up additional damage/kills along the way and in the harbour otherwise you are probably not going to get more BXP than a good BB that has wrought significant damage on the enemy ships both to the harbour and in the harbour.

 

ultimately however you try to cut it when it comes to in-rotation none division public games the instance of losses cause by people clamouring the "transports" in Narai is significantly reduced in comparison to pre-nerf.

 

 

[Taylor3006]

On 1/28/2021 at 8:54 PM, xamdam said:

Why do I remember playing Sims and Cossack there (Cossack being the only T8 allowed)? My mate in Monaghan? Was it not tier 6~8? Seems like such a long time ago...

Sims & Monaghan were allowed to play the OP. I can not remember if Cossack was. I remember Gallant could be used because it was released at the same time as the Dunkirk Op. Maybe you are thinking of her.  IIRC you could actually use several tiers of DDs in it. I know I used two different, tech tree Russian DDs in it. I did the grind quite quickly with them. 

[b101uk]

@Taylor3006 Cossack was permitted in Dynamo, it was the only tier VIII that was, in fact if I recall correctly (which I may not), the return of dynamo in fulltime rotation coincided with the first sale of Cossack, though I cannot remember the first sale date of Cossack to cross-reference the patch notes for dynamo's return, I just remember getting Cossack and playing Dynamo for the first time were quite close together, as I missed Dynamo when it was originally released as a short term cross promo.

 

edit: 0.7.9 was the return of Dynamo in Sep 2018, LWM review of Cossack was in Sep 2018 too

[Admiral_Kartoffel]

49 minutes ago, b101uk said:

@Taylor3006 Cossack was permitted in Dynamo, it was the only tier VIII that was, in fact if I recall correctly (which I may not), the return of dynamo in fulltime rotation coincided with the first sale of Cossack, though I cannot remember the first sale date of Cossack to cross-reference the patch notes for dynamo's return, I just remember getting Cossack and playing Dynamo for the first time were quite close together, as I missed Dynamo when it was originally released as a short term cross promo.

 

edit: 0.7.9 was the return of Dynamo in Sep 2018, LWM review of Cossack was in Sep 2018 too

I'm almost certain I ran Dynamo with you on more than one occasion, good times. I've changed my nick since then. Was Admiral_Downes.

[Taylor3006]

1 hour ago, b101uk said:

@Taylor3006 Cossack was permitted in Dynamo, it was the only tier VIII that was, in fact if I recall correctly (which I may not), the return of dynamo in fulltime rotation coincided with the first sale of Cossack, though I cannot remember the first sale date of Cossack to cross-reference the patch notes for dynamo's return, I just remember getting Cossack and playing Dynamo for the first time were quite close together, as I missed Dynamo when it was originally released as a short term cross promo.

 

edit: 0.7.9 was the return of Dynamo in Sep 2018, LWM review of Cossack was in Sep 2018 too

Yeah I was thinking it was possible, just wasn't absolutely certain. I knew Cossack wasn't out when Dynamo was added to the game and that I think, swayed me into saying no. I do have a vague memory of using it in the mode though as I had probably 400-500 games just playing that OP.  It actually is probably more than that. I made so many 19 point captains playing it. 

[KilljoyCutter]

They care more about shoving unwanted reworks and submarines down the game's throat than actually adding or re-adding quality content.

 

[xamdam]

I guess WG figures this doesn't rate an official reply / update... thanks @Hapa_Fodder. I think he's had ample time to reply.

I'm just not feeling the need to support them, err... the game any longer if that's the case. The next shiny new premium object I see in the store that makes me think "this might be handy in Ops", going to slap that idea right out of my head just as fast as it pops in. No more dockyard grinds that require the final stages to be done in doubloons any more either. Not worth it in the end for a ship I'll hardly ever play. From here on out, maybe just daily crates and whatever events give some free flags / camos. I have plenty of ships already and until they give me back a fun and interesting place to play them (Scenarios), no desire to spend any more.

GJ WeeGee, you've just cut yourself off from some revenue! 

 

[xamdam]

Well, I've been informed by Hapa_Fodder, among other things... that he has "filed it for a Monday response". Let's wait and see then if we do get an "official reply".

 

[nolbp]

17 hours ago, b101uk said:

ultimately WG knows where ships are when losses and wins happen, it is not hard for WG to look at the analytics between for example in-rotation wins and losses vs. out of rotation wins and losses made up of a single division, and to compare the flow of each and the proportion of the win/loss ratio, they use the same analytics for random battles etc, so they can see the common flow of ships around maps, which can lead them to make subtle map changes like moving and/or resizing or adding/removing of islands in order to perturb advantage, given they want to avoid exact mirror images.

 

likewise the "transports" are where "the money is" if only one ships goes, they deal with them quickly and get into the harbour themselves quickly to rack-up additional damage, if two ships go and share the transport kills its not where "the money is", it is much the same with the CV etc heading out of the harbour, if two or more ships go after that they have functionally reduced the reward relative to just one ship going, but in both cases you have to rack-up additional damage/kills along the way and in the harbour otherwise you are probably not going to get more BXP than a good BB that has wrought significant damage on the enemy ships both to the harbour and in the harbour.

 

ultimately however you try to cut it when it comes to in-rotation none division public games the instance of losses cause by people clamouring the "transports" in Narai is significantly reduced in comparison to pre-nerf.

 

yes they have all the info  but my point is do they care  when it comes to  ops . no they dont.

like i said  in my post  there are only 2 reasons more then 1 player goes for transports   1 they don't care about the team only there greed   or they just don't know.  and yes that is where the money is  unless your me in a bb and can get just as much  just doing my job protecting the fleet.

There has been absolutely no change to people clamoring for transports in pugs or in div play  that has been the way it has been from day one  and  will continue to be so  there is always some one in a div crying i need xp can i do transports .Then when it comes to pug week even vet players jump on that band wagon thinking no one is paying attention and blend in with the other greedy non team players

 .  when that happens  you get the benefit  of more targets thus more xp for the simple fact  that there are less people doing what they should be doing  and them being unable to get in position for the kills  we all get from them not being where they should be. when 2 bbs go for the cv and 3 or so players go for transports  i get 15 -17 kills     and guess what i lol all the way to the bank.  i have always said the worse the team the better off you are  we have played many ops together and you know me i don't sink in a bb i can kill the harbor by myself and have done it numerous times . so a really dont care about tasks in a pug .  let them fight over 3 or 4 easy kills    when i have  17 targets in harbor  to kill . let them fight over 3 kills ill take the 15 kill in harbor everyday .

when your in my div  of 7 and you do transports you have to wait till everyone has a chance at them it is the most fair way to handle it for everyone .  as far as a pug game  i hope for the best and expect nothing  i rarely get disappointed  that way.  This is the way.

bottom line  we need more ops  we need the old ones we some one to care about us for once  and not dismiss us out of hand  we spend money here as well  but get no respect what so ever only abuse and nerfs .

Think about this carefully we are the ones that care the ones that are posting things and asking for help  or anything for that matter . but there have many many more  that wont say a word and just walk away . 

its the same with in any retail market  treat the customer  badly  they just don't shop there anymore and you well never hear a word from them  just  a empty cash register is all you will have .

[Taylor3006]

9 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

They care more about shoving unwanted reworks and submarines down the game's throat than actually adding or re-addedin quality content.

I do not like the path the game is going down. At best it isn't very interesting, at worst, a suicide attempt. 

What Operations provided was fun. Good, rewarding fun for many players. It was a great change of pace for both the PvP and PvE crowds and many that I ran into playing were taking a "fun break" from things like clan wars or Ranked to alleviate the anger and stress of those modes. Operations were great because it allowed PvE players a chance to use all the fancy flags and camos you get and made them quite valuable as prizes. Cherry Blossom was especially nice because it allowed a path to grind out some tier 8 ships, for me it was Chappy. The other thing I loved about them was setting up or joining divisions of like minded players and enjoying each others company. It was the only mode I played in WoWS where people really tried to work together to get the big win. It could be hectic, stressful, and disappointing at times, but it was almost always fun. When Wargaming said they had ceased work on Operations & PvE content for the game, it was like a kick to the nads. It is a freaking game, it is supposed to be fun. Wargaming's vision for the game is just screwed up. They are out of touch with their customers and it shows in spades. There needs to be a change of leadership at the company if there is going to be any positive change. 

[SKurj]

On 1/28/2021 at 9:39 AM, tcbaker777 said:

it doesnt matter, WG made it clear they dont care about Operations, nothing we do short of not giving them money or leaving is going to change that

that just proves them right when they remove them and then point at the spreadsheet that shows scenario play is way down...

[tcbaker777]

16 hours ago, xamdam said:

Well, I've been informed by Hapa_Fodder, among other things... that he has "filed it for a Monday response". Let's wait and see then if we do get an "official reply".

 

ill go ahead and save you the time, they wont respond, he probably only said that so you'd shut up

[xamdam]

10 hours ago, tcbaker777 said:

ill go ahead and save you the time, they wont respond, he probably only said that so you'd shut up

We'll see. 

I'm not going to let it slide... I do stick by my comments above that I'm not going to spend any more until I see some effort on their part to return the removed OPs and manage their resources to provide more in the future. I have no need to otherwise, and no desire.

Simply trying to make it go away doesn't cut it.
 

[Hapa_Fodder]

So as was stated above by someone else, as the EU team stated, currently all our development resources are aimed at other projects throughout World of Warships and though we do divert some of that to correct issues or bugs with current operations it has been stated time and time again over the past year (actually longer than a year) that we have no current plans to release any new operations and as of right now any operations that were previously released and removed probably will not return.

At the end of the day, the development team has a vision and goal for World of Warships and the focus is on that.

Contrary to what some may think and or say, I have put a lot of work into gathering the feedback that you all have sent me since I started working for WG and a lot of changes have been made to Coop, I have tried to ensure that the PvE community overall is included more in new missions, campaigns and/or combat groups. Case in point the "Do this" OR "that" component to missions is directly from feedback the PvE community provided.

As in ANY game, developers and publishers are going to focus their efforts and energy on where the majority of community focus' their energy and time and globally PvP is where most players reside.

I would love to see more operations in the game, I enjoy playing them with friends, but the last word was, at this time, no further development is going to be focused on them.

-Hapa

[KilljoyCutter]

In other words, for Lesta, ruining the skill system, backdoor-nerfing multiple swaths of ships, and shoving subs into the game no matter how clear it becomes they don't fit, are far more important corporate goals than making sure existing content is working properly or introducing new engaging content.  

 

[BREHO]

30 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

At the end of the day, the development team has a vision and goal for World of Warships and the focus is on that.

Seems like they have the same vision as the lookouts on the Titanic

 

[dbw86]

Hapa I thank you for your listening to the players of WoWs and your willingness to seek out answers to players concerns.    So what I am going to say is not directed to you, other than to forward it on to the  powers that be.    WoWs needs to return Operations Cherry Blossom and Operation Dynamo.    Cherry Blossom was the only one that allowed tier 8 ships and it was on a very large map starting at night time and then moving to day time.    I was a great operation and excellent for clans to use to practice their team work.    Operation Dynamo was strictly set around the Dunkirk evacuation so was limited to allies Navy's which did hurt its play a bit.    But it was the only operation in which only destroyers were used exclusively and was well received by the players.    Both these operations should be easy to update and return to the line up of operations and would be well received by the playing community I believe.    It would be viewed as a positive step as well by the players, and God Knows WoWs needs to positive reaction from the player base rather than the constant dis-satisfaction I currently read in our forums.

[Hapa_Fodder]

48 minutes ago, dbw86 said:

Hapa I thank you for your listening to the players of WoWs and your willingness to seek out answers to players concerns.    So what I am going to say is not directed to you, other than to forward it on to the  powers that be.    WoWs needs to return Operations Cherry Blossom and Operation Dynamo.    Cherry Blossom was the only one that allowed tier 8 ships and it was on a very large map starting at night time and then moving to day time.    I was a great operation and excellent for clans to use to practice their team work.    Operation Dynamo was strictly set around the Dunkirk evacuation so was limited to allies Navy's which did hurt its play a bit.    But it was the only operation in which only destroyers were used exclusively and was well received by the players.    Both these operations should be easy to update and return to the line up of operations and would be well received by the playing community I believe.    It would be viewed as a positive step as well by the players, and God Knows WoWs needs to positive reaction from the player base rather than the constant dis-satisfaction I currently read in our forums.

Oh I totally agree, I loved Dunkirk, and used to play it A LOT, the biggest issue as far as I know, is as mechanics are updated and changed in game updating and the operations to match the patches is a bit more tedious than most people realize and as a result I think that is the biggest draw back for past operations coming back.

-Hapa

[Skuggsja]

20 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Oh I totally agree, I loved Dunkirk, and used to play it A LOT, the biggest issue as far as I know, is as mechanics are updated and changed in game updating and the operations to match the patches is a bit more tedious than most people realize and as a result. I think that is the biggest draw back for past operations coming back.

-Hapa

Than perhaps we can get new ones? 

It would be nice to have something between randoms and co-op in terms of difficulty. 

Sometimes the other game modes can be so frustrating that it's nice to have escape that isnt just bots charging straight at you, like in co-op.

[Hapa_Fodder]

6 minutes ago, Skuggsja said:

Than perhaps we can get new ones? 

It would be nice to have something between randoms and co-op in terms of difficulty. 

Sometimes the other game modes can be so frustrating that it's nice to have escape that isnt just bots charging straight at you, like in co-op.

That was another thing I have suggested, being able to "turn up" difficulty on Coop, like, "Easy, Normal, Hard"

-Hapa

[tcbaker777]

1 hour ago, BREHO said:

Seems like they have the same vision as the lookouts on the Titanic

 

now, to be fair, they had forgotten the binoculars before the ship left, WG has theirs, theyre just ignoring them and the iceberg hoping that ignoring it will be enough to make it go away

[KilljoyCutter]

4 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

now, to be fair, they had forgotten the binoculars before the ship left, WG has theirs, theyre just ignoring them and the iceberg hoping that ignoring it will be enough to make it go away

Or, if the players are the lookouts, we've been pointing at the iceberg and shouting down to the bridge for hours, as the captain keeps turning to "intercept" it.  

[SpudZero]

9 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

That was another thing I have suggested, being able to "turn up" difficulty on Coop, like, "Easy, Normal, Hard"

Would LOVE to be able to do that!

[iamSamoth]

Op's are the only thing making this 'game' worthwhile, imho. Death-match arena fights are old and tired af. Not one thing appealing about it ever, I only log in to take free rewards. Not to play, ever. Much less four hundred fifty dollars for one fleet of 4 pixel boats, that can just be turned off one day.