CV in Aegis Rant...

[Incomitatus]

I've played about a dozen Aegis Scenarios today, in every one of them (except one without a CV) the CV player has flown ahead, spotted the enemy vanguard and ruined the timing of the DDs smoke. Every. One.

In almost every game, at least one player has asked/told/begged the CV not to do that. They've done it anyway.

In the last one, after being asked not to do that, and doing it anyway, someone got a bit salty with the CV. I, to my shame, joined in.

I got called a bit of female genitalia. Fair enough.

Then the CV said he was new. So I explained why not to spot early, and apologized for being salty.

His response: to say F*** this, and go AFK.

I know I was partly in the wrong, but for the love of all that is holy... if you've never played an op before, and your team asks you to do or not do something: comply.

And then if they take the time to explain why: don't get mad! And don't go AFK!

(And if you need to come to the forum to rant about the game, it's time to call it a night) <--- note to self

[Vader_Sama]

When queuing up a non 7 man div in weekly ops, I have no expectation of competency from any random players in the op and adapt accordingly to ensure the op becomes a win and if necessary ignore any secondary objectives that may lead to a failure of the entire op if it diverts attention from the main objective.

In the case for Aegis, the most reliable way I can ensure the CV won't spot the ships early is by.....being the CV itself.

[USMCGal]

Does it seem that with the new skill changes  that the ops have been tweaked to be more powerful?

To explain a bit more, I had played Raptor Rescue 3 times after this Captain skill rework. I used to play it in my New Mexico and Nurnberg. Three times in a row I played it in the Nurnberg and three times I was dead before Raptor got to the first repair point. 

I tried Aegis in  my New Mexico yesterday and I was burnt down half way before I made it past the first big island...the cruisers I kept over penning on and could not put anything down. Now I know i have not played either senarios for a time but is it to the point that one must now have a full skill point captain to run these missions? 

I think I have 13 point captains on both ships and I did spec the NM with SE for the fire issue but geeze it seemed like I was on fire the whole match. I had to use HE on a BB cause nothing was damaging it. Is it to that point now for these missions that a BB must use HE?

Just trying to get your guys take on it as it just seemed that I could do nothing in this match where before my BB especially used to be able to put those cruisers down sometimes in one shot. Lately everything my bb's fling seems to over pen all the time too. 

If You have any pointers it would be greatly appreciated.  

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

6 hours ago, Incomitatus said:

in every one of them (except one without a CV) the CV player has flown ahead, spotted the enemy vanguard and ruined the timing of the DDs smoke. Every. One.

You can't fault a CV player who's never done this op before for making this error, because in every other context they're doing the right thing. You have to tell them IMMEDIATELY you load in what not to do, and why. @Vader_Sama probably has a better idea of exactly what you should tell them than I do, because almost every time I've taken a CV into Aegis, I've known what not to do.

[Volron]

@USMCGal Sounds like bad luck, as the Ops are the same for me as pre-Commander rework.  If anything it sounds like you are either being too aggressive or greedy, and/or simply unlucky.  Leave an out and know when to back off.

 

@Incomitatus Cthulhu has a fair point.  The CV's you are seeing may likely newbies, though I'll admit I've seen potatoes as well (seen them in CV's numerous times in Ops).  However, Vader has a valid counter to the early smoke in Aegis: If you want to mitigate this problem, use a CV yourself.   Otherwise form a team with a known CV.

[USMCGal]

1 minute ago, Volron said:

@USMCGal Sounds like bad luck, as the Ops are the same for me as pre-Commander rework.  If anything it sounds like you are either being too aggressive or greedy, and/or simply unlucky.  Leave an out and know when to back off.

Lol If I am grouped with the rest of the fleet how is that being too aggressive. I know to stick to the fleet and don't go astray. And I didn't all the times as I know the ops and what needs to be done in them...so not sure how nothing has changed on my end other than these captain skills.

Something with the OP has changed. As i'm sure the bots have all of the new captains skills now too.  I am just confused as to how I can go into an op and my ship just cannot hit anything hard, where as before this skill rework I could put ships down left and right. 

You could be right though that RNG the bastage that he is, is messing with me. But this has been like this for every op I entered since the rework.  Hence why I asked if anything has changed with this rework regarding ops for you all too. 

 

[Wolfswetpaws]

Seems like I should play Aegis to test the notions in this topic.  

[Volron]

58 minutes ago, USMCGal said:

Lol If I am grouped with the rest of the fleet how is that being too aggressive. I know to stick to the fleet and don't go astray. And I didn't all the times as I know the ops and what needs to be done in them...so not sure how nothing has changed on my end other than these captain skills.

Something with the OP has changed. As i'm sure the bots have all of the new captains skills now too.  I am just confused as to how I can go into an op and my ship just cannot hit anything hard, where as before this skill rework I could put ships down left and right. 

You could be right though that RNG the bastage that he is, is messing with me. But this has been like this for every op I entered since the rework.  Hence why I asked if anything has changed with this rework regarding ops for you all too. 

 

I could only go off of what you posted, and you didn't exactly give details on what you were doing prior.  A majority of the time when someone posts something along these lines, they are being what I outlined.  Now that you've given me a bit more detail, I will have to say it's just bad luck.  While the Commander Rework has definitely shook things up, it has not made the Ops any more difficult for me and my gals are still doing their thing.  If anything, some of them are performing better: PEF and Bayern due to more accurate secondaries for example.  My Dunk still loves the water around ships, and/or loves being in Overpen City.  I still catch fire in any ship if a shell flies in any way towards my sector of the galaxy....  You know, the usual.

[HamptonRoads]

1 hour ago, USMCGal said:

Lol If I am grouped with the rest of the fleet how is that being too aggressive. I know to stick to the fleet and don't go astray. And I didn't all the times as I know the ops and what needs to be done in them...so not sure how nothing has changed on my end other than these captain skills.

Something with the OP has changed. As i'm sure the bots have all of the new captains skills now too.  I am just confused as to how I can go into an op and my ship just cannot hit anything hard, where as before this skill rework I could put ships down left and right. 

You could be right though that RNG the bastage that he is, is messing with me. But this has been like this for every op I entered since the rework.  Hence why I asked if anything has changed with this rework regarding ops for you all too. 

 

I played Raptor several times last week with a Nurnberg, and there doesn't seem to be anything different.  I'm guessing just a run a bad luck on your part, especially if you know how to play the op.  I could be that your commander builds might have tweaked your gameplay.

[USMCGal]

2 minutes ago, Volron said:

I could only go off of what you posted, and you didn't exactly give details on what you were doing prior.  A majority of the time when someone posts something along these lines, they are being what I outlined.  Now that you've given me a bit more detail, I will have to say it's just bad luck.  While the Commander Rework has definitely shook things up, it has not made the Ops any more difficult for me and my gals are still doing their thing.  If anything, some of them are performing better: PEF and Bayern due to more accurate secondaries for example.  My Dunk still loves the water around ships, and/or loves being in Overpen City, I still catch fire in my ship if a shell flies in any way towards my sector of the galaxy....  You know, the usual.

OK thanks for the update! 

I know I hadn't played them for a time but they just seemed to me like they had been amped up. Probably due to the fact that my captain skills just aren't going the distance too. An yes overpen city on all of my bb's both in and out of op's. That needs to be fixed. I shouldn't need to switch to HE on a bb just to put another bb down...is frustrating. 

Thank you again. 

[USMCGal]

2 minutes ago, HamptonRoads said:

I could be that your commander builds might have tweaked your gameplay.

This seems to be the only thing I can put  a finger on and my picked skills are just not up to the task. Really no surprise there. CL skills being what they are seem to be lacking with this rework.

Thank you. 

[HamptonRoads]

36 minutes ago, USMCGal said:

This seems to be the only thing I can put  a finger on and my picked skills are just not up to the task. Really no surprise there. CL skills being what they are seem to be lacking with this rework.

Thank you. 

I'm hoping that TPTB will restore BFT and AFT back.  They'll need to roll back the Atlanta's range if they do, but I'm okay with that. 

FWIW, when I played Raptor with the Nurnberg I was still getting Assistant and Natural Selection awards about half the time, so the ship is definitely up to the challenge.

[Slimeball91]

In case we have any new CV players trying out this op, here's why you should wait and let the friendly bot Nicholas spot the enemy vanguard (the first wave of enemy ships that spawn).  As soon as the vanguard is first spotted the bot Nicholas instantly drops a smoke screen to cover the team.  If the CV spots the vanguard early the Nickolas will smoke early, and that means the smoke is farther away from the enemy vanguard.  The problem with this is that your friendly light cruisers (which are a popular choice for this op) won't be close enough to citadel the broadside enemy ships.

When you allow the Nickolas to spot the vanguard it will drop its smoke closer to the enemy and your cruisers will be able to get close enough to make quick work of the enemy cruisers, which is important because you need to sink these ships in a certain amount of time as one of the objectives.  Also, the longer that first wave of enemy ships lives the more time they have to do damage to your teammates.  One (or more) of your teammates taking a bunch of damage early can set the op off to a really bad start that can spiral downward quickly. 

One more thing CV players should be aware of.  In the last wave of enemy ships there will be three BBs spawn that need to be sunk for the last objective.  It is important that the CV go after the farthest northwestern BB right away, and leave the other two BB for your teammates.  The reason is that most, or all of, your teammates might not be in range to shoot at that NW BB.  There isn't always enough time for your teammates to sink the other two BBs and then have the time to sink the third NW BB.  If the CV can sink or ware down that BB it will really help ensure that all three BBs get sunk and you are far more likely to complete that objective.  This last objective is a pretty common one that end being failed.  That is mostly due to how the CV player handles that northwestern BB.  Go after that BB so you aren't the reason that the team only gets 4 out 5 stars on this op.  Good luck.

[Volron]

30 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

One more thing CV players should be aware of.  In the last wave of enemy ships there will be three BBs spawn that need to be sunk for the last objective.  It is important that the CV go after the farthest northwestern BB right away, and leave the other two BB for your teammates.  The reason is that most, or all of, your teammates might not be in range to shoot at that NW BB.  There isn't always enough time for your teammates to sink the other two BBs and then have the time to sink the third NW BB.  If the CV can sink or ware down that BB it will really help ensure that all three BBs get sunk and you are far more likely to complete that objective.  This last objective is a pretty common one that end being failed.  That is mostly due to how the CV player handles that northwestern BB.  Go after that BB so you aren't the reason that the team only gets 4 out 5 stars on this op.  Good luck.

It's situational.  I'll will prioritize Fuso over Kongo and Ishizuchi if there is a chance of failing the Op.  She can and will cause the Op the fail if she's not dealt with.  So it really depends on where, what, and how well off the team is when it comes time for those gals to show.  Fuso will always be the "safest" option for a newer CV to go for to win the Op, get them into the habit of prioritizing a win over going for "extras".  Hopefully, they'll learn when they should go for her or not (or for any "extra's" in the other Ops).  Just takes experience.   Besides, I'll take an X star win over a 5 star fail any day.

[Admiral_Kartoffel]

Just had an Aegis run and the CV player, with hundreds of Operations achievements, spotted the enemy first. It was disheartening to say the least. 
He didn't launch planes right away, which I thought was a good omen, but alas... it was not to be.
We did 5 star it, but it certainly could have run smoother.

On a side note, Mysore is a very nice boat for T6 Operations, ESPECIALLY Raptor. (Better than Perth in my opinion. Better range and British AP... )
It's just too bad she doesn't have torps and is in a line that currently has no tech tree.

[b101uk]

I played raptor recue must have been 150+ times this last week between the NA and EU serves (enough to get 3 commanders from 19pts to 21pts and one from 16pts to 20pts, enough FXP to get Alaska on the EU acc and reset my Russian CA line for the x4 RP and get FXP back up to 475k FXP on my NA acc) so I had been playing it a lot, I noticed nothing different about raptor recue it played just like normal.

 

not tried Aegis yet as I have had other things to catch up on in wows, but I will give it a try tomorrow or should I say today as it is almost 02:55h here.

[Swervenkill]

The only scenario I really hate to play is Newport, even when you win you feel like you lost. Otherwise they are all challenging and interesting. That said, enough players go off script for whatever reason and you lose. I've seen half the fleet swan off to perform a secondary mission and then you fail. Can't stop it either.

[Bandi73]

On 1/28/2021 at 10:15 AM, Incomitatus said:

I've played about a dozen Aegis Scenarios today, in every one of them (except one without a CV) the CV player has flown ahead, spotted the enemy vanguard and ruined the timing of the DDs smoke. Every. One.

In almost every game, at least one player has asked/told/begged the CV not to do that. They've done it anyway.

In the last one, after being asked not to do that, and doing it anyway, someone got a bit salty with the CV. I, to my shame, joined in.


Then the CV said he was new. So I explained why not to spot early, and apologized for being salty.

His response: to say F*** this, and go AFK.

I know I was partly in the wrong, but for the love of all that is holy... if you've never played an op before, and your team asks you to do or not do something: comply.

And then if they take the time to explain why: don't get mad! And don't go AFK!

(And if you need to come to the forum to rant about the game, it's time to call it a night) <--- note to self

Yep.I know. That's the problem with a good chunk of the Cv players. It is an easy class to play, does not educate on the values of team play and if some brain activity required they go like that. And they have no risks involved.  Also T6 is a lower tier so there would be many who grind there and after T4 and......yep. And don't get me started  on KW.

But to be fair I encountered the other kind too. I mean the good ones. 

 

[Slimeball91]

2 minutes ago, Bandi73 said:

Yep.I know. That's the problem with a good chunk of the Cv players. It is an easy class to play, does not educate on the values of team play....

I just started playing CVs in some of the ops recently.  I'm not very good at CVs so the best thing I can do for myself, and the team is play a team oriented game: going after ships that are problematic for the surface ships, spotting and so on.  If I was to try to carry the team through damage farming in my CVs we'd be a lot worse off.

[Noworriesderpy1]

Sigh yet another hate the CV  

Okay shall we scream at BB and or CA\CL players who HEAD immediately NORTH right into the Path of the second wave of BOTs ?  

Anyway yes as I play the CV in Aegis and on occasions I see in chat "Hey CV can you wait till the bots are spotted"  and I usually reply "this is not my first rodeo" .         

PS: I ALWAYS go for the Fuso ... vice the other 2 BBs  even though the AAA can be brutal at times. 

Also it is better to take out the escorting cruisers as early as possible so the convoy can make the turn towards the circle quicker.

[Bandi73]

6 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

I just started playing CVs in some of the ops recently.  I'm not very good at CVs so the best thing I can do for myself, and the team is play a team oriented game: going after ships that are problematic for the surface ships, spotting and so on.  If I was to try to carry the team through damage farming in my CVs we'd be a lot worse off.

That's how I play  Cv's( erm...actually only the Furious). too. In ops. But you have prior experience.

[Bandi73]

4 minutes ago, Noworriesderpy1 said:

Sigh yet another hate the CV  

No. Its about players. Which happens to play Cv's

4 minutes ago, Noworriesderpy1 said:

Okay shall we scream at BB and or CA\CL players who HEAD immediately NORTH right into the Path of the second wave of BOTs ?  

 

Well :).... that's exactly how I play  certain ships. Leander, Yaigle, Anshan. Personal record 29 cits. In da Yaigle. :) I play different cruisers/ships differently, for example in the Graf I tend to go in between the islands to tank and take advantage of its hydro. The russian ones I play somewhat at  range taking advantage of the guns and stayin' alive.

4 minutes ago, Noworriesderpy1 said:

Anyway yes as I play the CV in Aegis and on occasions I see in chat "Hey CV can you wait till the bots are spotted"  and I usually reply "this is not my first rodeo" .         

 

Good for you. And for... "us" :)

[StoptheViolins]

"Ruining the timing of the smoke"...  it only fits like 3-4 ships, so folks who can't fit in it or aren't rushing the main slot are left out in the smoke to take the brunt of the AI gunfire, and the AI still launches torpedoes into the slot unless the CV gets them to dodge torpedoes ergo it's better to get the enemy torpedo spammers swerving early  so they can't get their idiot killers launched.  Also since the first wave of ships are a random composition from anything from no DDs and more cruisers to 2 DDs 2 cruisers and 2 BBs, it's better to know what's coming early.

The smoke is only good for getting the AI to shoot at the rest of your team.

Me, I'd rather sink a DD or the top tier cruiser before they can torp spam the slot.  Sorry if it messes up your little timed shot scheme or YOLO hole.

[RainbowFartingUnicorn]

On 1/28/2021 at 3:29 AM, Vader_Sama said:

When queuing up a non 7 man div in weekly ops, I have no expectation of competency from any random players in the op and adapt accordingly to ensure the op becomes a win and if necessary ignore any secondary objectives that may lead to a failure of the entire op if it diverts attention from the main objective.

In the case for Aegis, the most reliable way I can ensure the CV won't spot the ships early is by.....being the CV itself.

Only problem is that T6 ops queue looks like 10 CVs and only one of any other ship type at any given moment in the day. Same reason I am a destroyer main in Ranked. May not be easiest, but I don't want to wait in queue with the hundred-odd BB mains.

[Slimeball91]

52 minutes ago, Noworriesderpy1 said:

PS: I ALWAYS go for the Fuso ... vice the other 2 BBs  even though the AAA can be brutal at times. 

If you get to the Fuso quick enough you can get all of your drops with that squadron before the rest of the other ships spawn.  After that you'll have the AA from the reinforcements to deal with.  Not necessarily a big deal given this is the last wave of enemy ships so you don't need to save planes for later in the match.  I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, this is for the sake of the newer CV players.